cavs fan half time analysis

[RAcker]

Where is this kid's second half analysis ? Was he only going to do one if the cavs won ?

Exactly my thoughts.  Don't post on the others teams blog even respectfully if you don't intend to eat crow when the game doesn't go your way.  No respect.  Sorry.

[crownsy]

Where is this kid's second half analysis ? Was he only going to do one if the cavs won ?

Exactly my thoughts.  Don't post on the others teams blog even respectfully if you don't intend to eat crow when the game doesn't go your way.  No respect.  Sorry.

yep.

Ive met a classy other teams fan, and you sir (this new guy) are no MAC.

[crownsy]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

I rarely use strong words on CelticsBlog and I'll try to use restraint, but this is pure bull crap. Why do people have to complain like there is some conspiracy by the refs against a particular team? Fans from every single freaking team say the same stupid crap. What, are the refs and David Stern conspiring against every team? It makes no sense.

I'm as much of a Celtics homer as anyone, but I watched that game like everyone else and I saw ZERO evidence of biased reffing. Good gosh. Sure, there were some questionable calls, but there are always questionable calls. And the calls went both ways.

Quit complaining about the refs - it's freaking pathetic...

[end of rant]

On a different note, great win tonight!!

ya...im gonna go ahead and not give the league that had a ref who was in deep with bookies and fixing games as recently as two years ago the benefit of the doubt.

But i mean, david assured me that Tim was a rogue and a loner right?

 but then he didn't suspend 14 other refs who he wont name who broke the anti-gambling rules, or tell us who they are. great trust building.

Yes, i know its probably for being in a Vegas casino, but you know what? no, i dont respect the NBA officiating pool's unbiasedness when we had a guy get caught fixing games, including one game 7, and whos cell phone records indicated at least 2 other refs who he called on a daily basis before there games and the league goes:


"uhhh yea, totally just this one guy....don't ask us about it anymore, we're clean."

sorry doesn't fly.

[Brickowski]

Back to the officiating.

The NBA and its officials favor the marketable stars.  This has been true ever since Stern became commish.  The stars get all the breaks.  One reason why you need stars to win is that they can guard the other team's stars and get a fair shake from the officials. A rookie or no name player has ZERO chance of stopping a star, even playing superb defense.

The league was so concerned about Shaq's success that it changed the rules of post play to make it easier for him.  Put in the FIBA rules with the wider lane and Shaq's offensive effectiveness decreases exponentially.  And I remember the Athens Olympics when LeBron kept bulling his way down the lane, staring down the officials and expecting to get calls.  The officials just stared right back and kept their whistles in their pockets.

We can argue ad nauseum whether or not this bias is by design or unconscious.  It doesn't matter.  Either way it exists.

This year the league wants a Kobe-LeBron final.  Stern wants it, ABC wants it, ESPN wants it and TNT wants it.  It will take a herculean effort by the Celtics, playing five against eight night after night, to overcome the bias. Last night's 38-12 free throw discrepancy was just a precursor of what to expect in the playoffs.

 

[cordobes]

I think that last night FT differential is mostly explained by the fact that the Cavs allowed the Celtics big to play and score at will. They played soft and scared. The C's committed a lot more fouls. There were some wrong calls, almost all of them in favour of the Cavs (at least from my perspective), but the bulk of the difference had nothing to do refs, more with the way the teams defended. That's why we outscored them in the paint by a big margin.

[Brickowski]

I think that last night FT differential is mostly explained by the fact that the Cavs allowed the Celtics big to play and score at will. They played soft and scared. The C's committed a lot more fouls. There were some wrong calls, almost all of them in favour of the Cavs (at least from my perspective), but the bulk of the difference had nothing to do refs, more with the way the teams defended. That's why we outscored them in the paint by a big margin.

I don't agree.  There was a clear bias in favor of the Cavs.  The bailout call for LeBron in the 4th quarter was the most obvious example, but there were others, including a completely unwarranted ejection of Davis, which was basically engineered by Ilgauskas' overreation and that flopper Varejao.

Having said that, yes, the Celtics outhustled the Cavs and hustle produces fouls.  In fact, guys who don't foul are typically coasting on D.

[Champzilla]

Squis is right, I don't know if hoops actually watched the game or not.  It seemed pretty clear that whenever the Celtics were pulling away with the game the refs were trying to keep the cavs in it, maybe to try to make it a more excitable game.  I think you really had to watch the game to get an understanding of what was going on, like what RH said.

[Champzilla]

Hoops said "I absolutely believe in refs being swayed by a home crowd - refs are humans and they're weak sometimes".  We were the home team last night, we swayed them against us, I don't get that ?  It really is tough to argue with someone who might not have watched the game.

[KCattheStripe]

I think that last night FT differential is mostly explained by the fact that the Cavs allowed the Celtics big to play and score at will. They played soft and scared. The C's committed a lot more fouls. There were some wrong calls, almost all of them in favour of the Cavs (at least from my perspective), but the bulk of the difference had nothing to do refs, more with the way the teams defended. That's why we outscored them in the paint by a big margin.

I don't agree.  There was a clear bias in favor of the Cavs.  The bailout call for LeBron in the 4th quarter was the most obvious example, but there were others, including a completely unwarranted ejection of Davis, which was basically engineered by Ilgauskas' overreation and that flopper Varejao.

Having said that, yes, the Celtics outhustled the Cavs and hustle produces fouls.  In fact, guys who don't foul are typically coasting on D.

Yes, Varejo flopped after getting a forearm to the neck.


Interesting side note, The Lakers , who played soft in the middle, out fouled the Celtics in the NBA finals 156-148. However the free throws attempted differential was huge in the Celtics favor, which to me means that the Lakers were just as bad at keeping the Celtics out of the paint but would at least foul to try and stop lay ups.

[Hoops]

Hoops said "I absolutely believe in refs being swayed by a home crowd - refs are humans and they're weak sometimes".  We were the home team last night, we swayed them against us, I don't get that ?  It really is tough to argue with someone who might not have watched the game.

C'mon guys - don't try to take my comments out of context. I don't take offense easily, but it's annoying to keep hearing suggestions that I didn't watch the game. I said in my very first post that I watched the game like everyone else - that's exactly why I've been commenting - I disagree with the victim mentality that people showed on this board after that game.

As far as saying that I believe a crowd can sway the refs, I'm not saying that happened last night - quite to the contrary. What I was saying was that in general, I believe the refs can be swayed by a home crowd - I was simply suggesting that I understand that refs aren't infallible. Refs make mistakes all the time. They made mistakes last night. But I simply don't believe the refs were intentionally trying to give the game to the Cavs. You might think my head is in the sand - I certainly think yours is. We can argue till the cows come home or just agree to disagree. Nothing personal.

P.S. ...I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush, but I'd venture a guess that most of the people complaining about the refs are the same guys that drive to the bucket in a pickup game (if these people play at all) and call a foul if someone breaths on them. Not my style.

[angryguy77]

Back to the officiating.

The NBA and its officials favor the marketable stars.  This has been true ever since Stern became commish.  The stars get all the breaks.  One reason why you need stars to win is that they can guard the other team's stars and get a fair shake from the officials. A rookie or no name player has ZERO chance of stopping a star, even playing superb defense.

The league was so concerned about Shaq's success that it changed the rules of post play to make it easier for him.  Put in the FIBA rules with the wider lane and Shaq's offensive effectiveness decreases exponentially.  And I remember the Athens Olympics when LeBron kept bulling his way down the lane, staring down the officials and expecting to get calls.  The officials just stared right back and kept their whistles in their pockets.

We can argue ad nauseum whether or not this bias is by design or unconscious.  It doesn't matter.  Either way it exists.

This year the league wants a Kobe-LeBron final.  Stern wants it, ABC wants it, ESPN wants it and TNT wants it.  It will take a herculean effort by the Celtics, playing five against eight night after night, to overcome the bias. Last night's 38-12 free throw discrepancy was just a precursor of what to expect in the playoffs.

 

Hey brick,
What rules did they change? I want to know because I cant stand Shaq and this would be a good piece of info to know. Thanks

[Brickowski]

Well,. here's what Shaq has to say:

"They weren't calling nothing when I was purposely 'bowing [Dikembe] Mutombo in his face," says Shaq wiEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.lly, referring to the tactics he used against the tight D of the 76ers' center during the Lakers' 2001 Finals victory. "Phil [Jackson] said, 'If he's going to play like that, put your f-----' elbow right in his face.' And they didn't call it." Oh, those were the days.

O'Neal insists that the league is making a big mistake by tilting the game in favor of the Lilliputians. "The game is going to be boring," he says. "They're going to have a bunch of Dirk Nowitzkis shooting threes."

The fact is that the "dislodgement rule" (which allowed Shaq to bowl people over), was still on the books in the mid 1990's but it was never called.  Then, in 2004 or 2005, they started to call it again.  Shaqw had lost his primo box office appeal.  Poor baby.

[timpiker]

I hope you realize the cavs wouldn't be in this game if the refs weren't completely cheating. The celtics regularly get screwed by the refs but nothing like this. Stern runs a corrupt league, Lebron gets all the calls its sickening, Mo williams gets more calls then paul pierce? ray allen?

With all due respect - I think your observations about the NBA and their Refs is SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The WWF and the NBA refs are blood brothers.  As a matter of fact, NBA refs are trained by doing Globetrotter and Washington Generals' games.