Moore: good defender and shot blocker?

[Fafnir]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

The term All Star talent is silly. Darko and Kwame have All Star talent too. All Star performance is what you want from a player, and Marbury has never deserved to play in an All Star game.

[ssspence]

Darko and Kwame have All Star talent too. All Star performance is what you want from a player, and Marbury has never deserved to play in an All Star game.

No they don't, and yes he has. Steph's not going to make an All-Star team anymore, but let's not get carried away mixing guys without skills with Marbury, no matter how off his chair the guys is.

[winsomme]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

take a look at the benches of CLE and LA, BFB. There are impact players there.

We lost two from our bench last season and haven't replaced them. That's where I'm coming from.

I agree that Marbury is an impact player and I hope if he comes here that he will be that added piece that we need.

but i just feel that the position that he plays -  PG - is not the position where we needed the impact. nor is his game built on the elements that i feel are what makes the kind of impact that we are going to need of the bench... namely, defense and toughness.

but, Marbury could be that player. He certainly has enough skills.

[BillfromBoston]

There is no money and there are no impact players available! I take Mikki Moore over Robert Horry at this point in their careers.

There *is* money.  As of right now, though, you're correct: there are no impact players available.  Joe Smith may be bought out, and I would have waited another week.

I think people are disappointed because all along people defending the off-season were saying "but we'll supplement during the season!".  To date, we've replaced Posey, P.J. and Sam with Mikki Moore.

The thing about that one is...Moore has been statistically superior to the version of PJ Brown we had last year - including his rebounding rate - so I think that his superior mobility, energy, and face-up shot are going to be well-utilized in this team system - remember, Ray and Paul were never known as defenders and neither were as efficient as they are now - changing systems matters.

Secondly, Moore was pretty solid defensively a couple years ago in NJ. I don't think he's slipped that far, I just think that the situation in Sac-Town wasn't conducive to Moore playing his best ball - he's not KG, but give him some defensive support and I think he'll surprise some people.

Finally, we will find out quite soon whether or not Stephon Marbury is coming on board - if he does i think it is unquestionable that Ainge upgraded the roster from last season and was intelligent not to commit multiple years for marginal upgrades....if Marbs doesn't come back i fully expect Sam to be re-signed - I think that was actually a pre-arranged agreement.

I see a lot of bashing of Moore on this board but no willingness to take the situation in Sac-Town into account, nor factor in Moore's personality and how that may have impacted his performance in a losing environment.

If this Celtics team has shown us anything its that a player who will dedicate himself to the system can become more than the sum of his individual ability would suppose...Moore plays his ass off and has had very solid production in the not-so-distant past...

...that leads me to believe that the negativity displayed with this acquisition has much more to do with deflated expectations than it does Moore's probability to contribute...

[Bankshot]

There is no money and there are no impact players available! I take Mikki Moore over Robert Horry at this point in their careers.

Wrong.  There is money available and there will most likely be an impact player available... his name is Stephon Marbury.

[Fafnir]

You really don't think Darko and Kwame had/have All Star level talent? They were busts as high picks but they were high picks for a reason. Dark is a reasonably skilled athletic 7 footer. He just never could put the whole game together, happens to very talented players.

Kwame never had the skill but he easily has the physical talent. He is/was an amazing athlete. Just not a good player.

Which season of Marbury's was he a top 2 or 3 point guard in a conference in your mind? I'm looking at his stats and I don't see it. He put up a lot of points but on a lot of shots.

[BillfromBoston]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

The term All Star talent is silly. Darko and Kwame have All Star talent too. All Star performance is what you want from a player, and Marbury has never deserved to play in an All Star game.

Marbury just turned 32, has made multiple All Star teams, and carries career averages of nearly 20 points and 8 assits...not saying he doesn't have baggage, but come on - he's a proven commodity in terms of production - not just some tantalizing talent that never manifested into production...

...as a 6th man, he'd be Jason Terry caliber IMO...almost nobody has that type of guy coming off the bench...

[winsomme]

There is no money and there are no impact players available! I take Mikki Moore over Robert Horry at this point in their careers.

There *is* money.  As of right now, though, you're correct: there are no impact players available.  Joe Smith may be bought out, and I would have waited another week.

I think people are disappointed because all along people defending the off-season were saying "but we'll supplement during the season!".  To date, we've replaced Posey, P.J. and Sam with Mikki Moore.

The thing about that one is...Moore has been statistically superior to the version of PJ Brown we had last year - including his rebounding rate - so I think that his superior mobility, energy, and face-up shot are going to be well-utilized in this team system - remember, Ray and Paul were never known as defenders and neither were as efficient as they are now - changing systems matters.

Secondly, Moore was pretty solid defensively a couple years ago in NJ. I don't think he's slipped that far, I just think that the situation in Sac-Town wasn't conducive to Moore playing his best ball - he's not KG, but give him some defensive support and I think he'll surprise some people.

Finally, we will find out quite soon whether or not Stephon Marbury is coming on board - if he does i think it is unquestionable that Ainge upgraded the roster from last season and was intelligent not to commit multiple years for marginal upgrades....if Marbs doesn't come back i fully expect Sam to be re-signed - I think that was actually a pre-arranged agreement.

I see a lot of bashing of Moore on this board but no willingness to take the situation in Sac-Town into account, nor factor in Moore's personality and how that may have impacted his performance in a losing environment.

If this Celtics team has shown us anything its that a player who will dedicate himself to the system can become more than the sum of his individual ability would suppose...Moore plays his ass off and has had very solid production in the not-so-distant past...

...that leads me to believe that the negativity displayed with this acquisition has much more to do with deflated expectations than it does Moore's probability to contribute...

the expectations are deflated for sure. I'm not bashing Moore. I just don't see how he is an upgrade over players that are already in the rotation.

the only way a guy can be an "impact player" is if he is deserving of minutes that are already going to someone else.

whose minutes deserve to be shortened at this point to get Moore PT?

[winsomme]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

The term All Star talent is silly. Darko and Kwame have All Star talent too. All Star performance is what you want from a player, and Marbury has never deserved to play in an All Star game.

Marbury just turned 32, has made multiple All Star teams, and carries career averages of nearly 20 points and 8 assits...not saying he doesn't have baggage, but come on - he's a proven commodity in terms of production - not just some tantalizing talent that never manifested into production...

...as a 6th man, he'd be Jason Terry caliber IMO...almost nobody has that type of guy coming off the bench...

it depends on what you're looking for from your bench. JT certainly can come in and take over a game, and maybe Mar could do that too (although how much experience does he have coming in off the bench?)

but for me, scoring is not the key issue with the Cs. for me, "toughness" is probably the most important factor and that was IMO why PJ and Posey were so effective in those roles.

[spazmonkey]

What's the downside to signing him?  (This isn't entirely a rhetorical question -- I'm not the savviest guy when it comes to understanding the salary cap impact, contractual obligations, etc.)

If Moore doesn't pan out, Doc will bury him on the bench.  But the upside is Doc will have an athletic, long 7-footer to drop into the mix when needed.  If Mikki can get up to speed with the team defense concept and knock down the occasional J, I'll be pleased.

[BillfromBoston]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

take a look at the benches of CLE and LA, BFB. There are impact players there.

We lost two from our bench last season and haven't replaced them. That's where I'm coming from.

I agree that Marbury is an impact player and I hope if he comes here that he will be that added piece that we need.

but i just feel that the position that he plays -  PG - is not the position where we needed the impact. nor is his game built on the elements that i feel are what makes the kind of impact that we are going to need of the bench... namely, defense and toughness.

but, Marbury could be that player. He certainly has enough skills.

It is true that Clevland has some statistically superior players coming off their bench - but where does the fact that we have 4 All Star players in a our starting lineup factor into this equation?

Cleveland is much improved from last year and play excellent team basketball - but they are made up of exactly 1 player who matches or surpasses the ability of 4 of our players.

I'm all about depth, but i don't see Cleveland as a team that is superior to Boston...yes, Boston lost the last game against them - but they were also in the midst of their nightmare portion of the schedule and playing tired and sloppy basketball. LeBron also hit 4-6 3 pointers and almost every pull-up jumper he took - that is such a VAST statistical anomaly for him, I have trouble seeing it happening consistently over a 7 game series - he got up for one game IMO. This team proved last year in the playoffs that they could keep him out of the paint and force jumpers. i'll take my chances.

Nobody likes to look at the first game of the year and count it because  it was so long ago, but the fact is that it was a game that both teams played with the same rosters, full health, and an entire TC and pre-season to prepare. Boston handled them and never relinquished the lead in that game.

Depth is nice - but especially in the playoffs, the starting units are going to factor heavily into the outcomes. Boston's bench players play extremely well when mixed with multiple starters and that's how its going to be.

Boston now has 4 players that look like first option superstar, team-carriers...I like our chances going against LeBron and his merry band of Role players - excactly 2 players on Cleveland can create their own shot, 3 if you count Delonte West...while an excellent team, they are not a team of playmakers - they can be defended.

[BillfromBoston]

You really don't think Darko and Kwame had/have All Star level talent? They were busts as high picks but they were high picks for a reason. Dark is a reasonably skilled athletic 7 footer. He just never could put the whole game together, happens to very talented players.

Kwame never had the skill but he easily has the physical talent. He is/was an amazing athlete. Just not a good player.

Which season of Marbury's was he a top 2 or 3 point guard in a conference in your mind? I'm looking at his stats and I don't see it. He put up a lot of points but on a lot of shots.

Dude, you gotta drop this argument...Marbury made multiple All Star games and was an Olympian - he was clearly regarded highly enough to have thos credentials as well as become the highest paid player in the NBA at one point.

He has definite flaws - never because the winner or team leader that people expected from his talent, but don't confuse that with not being an elite-level performer...his underachieving was better than many star players best...

[the_Bird]

Starbury WAS an All-Star talent, but it's a stretch to apply that label to him today.  Hell, Cassell was an All Star talent, too!  Starbury's play in the past few years was down, he hasn't played a game in ages (and who really knows how long it will take him to get back into game shape), and I tend to think that his basic style of play isn't one that helps our offense. 

If he comes in with the right attitude - yeah, sixth-man of the year candidate.  But, I don't trust him not to whine for more playing time and try and undercut Rondo however he can. 

Starbury WAS an All-Star, but my fear is that he thinks he still IS one.

[Sweet17]

Moore is at least a threat to block a shot with a block% around 2.3 (career) and that's better then any of our bench bigs now with POB being gone. For reference Perk is 5.1, KG 3.2.. Davis 1.4.

Moore is a lightweight hustle guy who can help us when paired with Perkins, BBD or Powe. Kinda a KG light.. Like KG he can finish around the rim but would get pushed around by a big strong center and such on the post. He might be a decent fit for this team as I think we can run similiar schemes to what we do now. (It was much the same for PJ Brown who could hit Js and play some D.)

I got to say there is a shocking amount of negativity on this board for a team that is 46-12. Mikki Moore is a nice addition as unlike POB he can actually play. It's an upgrade. If we get Starbury I still like our chances..

Pete

[winsomme]

Quit being so [dang] negative. Mikki Moore is a huge upgrade from what we had and he is an energy player and that is what we need right now coming off the bench.

i hope you're right. I don't see him as a huge upgrade. IMO we needed an impact player. he seems inferior to BBD, Powe and Scal.

how is that a huge upgrade?

This team has 4 All Stars...what type of "impact" level player are we talking about here?

I just don't think this fanbase can process the difference between last year and this year - its been too long since this team contended and romantic notions of 80's dominance has clouded reality to a degree.

This team is very, very strong and is a true contender -- whatever limitations they have are no greater than any other team...they can beat any team in a 7 game series, but it doesn't mean they are a cake-walk...nor were they last year...

...Marbury will be the 5th All Star talent on the roster if he's added, will that be enough to ease the fear?

take a look at the benches of CLE and LA, BFB. There are impact players there.

We lost two from our bench last season and haven't replaced them. That's where I'm coming from.

I agree that Marbury is an impact player and I hope if he comes here that he will be that added piece that we need.

but i just feel that the position that he plays -  PG - is not the position where we needed the impact. nor is his game built on the elements that i feel are what makes the kind of impact that we are going to need of the bench... namely, defense and toughness.

but, Marbury could be that player. He certainly has enough skills.

It is true that Clevland has some statistically superior players coming off their bench - but where does the fact that we have 4 All Star players in a our starting lineup factor into this equation?

Cleveland is much improved from last year and play excellent team basketball - but they are made up of exactly 1 player who matches or surpasses the ability of 4 of our players.

I'm all about depth, but i don't see Cleveland as a team that is superior to Boston...yes, Boston lost the last game against them - but they were also in the midst of their nightmare portion of the schedule and playing tired and sloppy basketball. LeBron also hit 4-6 3 pointers and almost every pull-up jumper he took - that is such a VAST statistical anomaly for him, I have trouble seeing it happening consistently over a 7 game series - he got up for one game IMO. This team proved last year in the playoffs that they could keep him out of the paint and force jumpers. i'll take my chances.

Nobody likes to look at the first game of the year and count it because  it was so long ago, but the fact is that it was a game that both teams played with the same rosters, full health, and an entire TC and pre-season to prepare. Boston handled them and never relinquished the lead in that game.

Depth is nice - but especially in the playoffs, the starting units are going to factor heavily into the outcomes. Boston's bench players play extremely well when mixed with multiple starters and that's how its going to be.

Boston now has 4 players that look like first option superstar, team-carriers...I like our chances going against LeBron and his merry band of Role players - excactly 2 players on Cleveland can create their own shot, 3 if you count Delonte West...while an excellent team, they are not a team of playmakers - they can be defended.

this is sort of segueing into a different topic because the biggest thing that scares me about CLE is that we don't have anyone other than Pierce to guard LeBron. I'm definitely afraid of Pierce being so worn out in that series by playing D that he won't be able to take over when we need it.

but I would feel a lot better about that situation if we had added a guy like Joe Smith because i feel like he would neutralize some of LeBron's dominance if we threw a guy like Walker at him for 5 or 6 mins a game with his help defense....

now can Moore add that? That's probably the most important question to be answered...