Chris Andersen Stinks

[the_Bird]

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that the reason we picked POB over Anderson might not've been entirely talent-related?  The team was probably reluctant to take a chance on a guy with substance issues after the Vin Baker debacle.  Remember, we don't know what Anderson got his 2-year ban for, but I'll bet Danny does.  Add that he was out of shape at the workout, and that's a huge risk for a championship team to take.

I thought about that.  Best-case with Anderson was that he's the player he is now; an 8th-man type, athletic guy who's a poor defender but makes some flashy plays.  Worst-case, we're dealing with Vin Baker II (although on a much smaller financial scale - but no one wants those stories/comparisons going through the media).

With POB, they took a calculated risk that surrounding him with a lot of intense veterans and having him work with Clifford Ray would help him find a higher gear.  Didn't work.  I suspect he's one of those 7-foot tallguys who plays basketball because he's 7-foot tall.  Can't light a candle if it ain't got a wick, you know?

Kinda surprising in one respect, though; hasn't POB proven since he came into the league that he's the antithesis of the Brain Doc's ideal?

[moiso]

I'm sure I'm in the minority with this opinion but I think Andersen is a higher charcter guy than POB.  Laziness in a basketball player is probably the worst characteristic.

[Brickowski]

There's still hope for POB.  There were too many guys ahead of him here. He was like Darko in Detroit: a human victory cigar.  With a consistent 15 minutes on a team that isn't vying for a championship, he might develop.  Or he might not.

As for Anderson, I'll trust me eyes. Based on what I've seen from him this year, Ainge was right to pass.  I have no problems with his character.  I have a problem with his lack of basketball ability.

[the_Bird]

There's still hope for POB.  There were too many guys ahead of him here. He was like Darko in Detroit: a human victory cigar.  With a consistent 15 minutes on a team that isn't vying for a championship, he might develop.  Or he might not.

Horsepucky.  There were plenty of times when we were short big men (and all of our backup big men are short!).  He did nothing in the time he was on the court (or from all accounts, in practice) to earn those minutes.  When KG's taking you aside for "special sessions" because you're not busting enough tail, when your coach is talking about "Patrick-speed versus Celtic-speed," when everyone watching you on the court sees the lackadaisical pace at which you play...

Let's just say I'm not overflowing with sympathy.  Surrounded by hard-working veterans, guys like KG who are known for taking younger players under their wing, working with Cliff Ray, widely recognized as the best big-man coach in the NBA, without the pressure to perform but with opportunities for playing time if you do perform....  what else could POB really ask for in terms of circumstances?

If he ain't makin' it here, he ain't makin' it nowhere!

[acieEarl]

There's still hope for POB.  There were too many guys ahead of him here. He was like Darko in Detroit: a human victory cigar.  With a consistent 15 minutes on a team that isn't vying for a championship, he might develop.  Or he might not.

Horsepucky.  There were plenty of times when we were short big men (and all of our backup big men are short!).  He did nothing in the time he was on the court (or from all accounts, in practice) to earn those minutes.  When KG's taking you aside for "special sessions" because you're not busting enough tail, when your coach is talking about "Patrick-speed versus Celtic-speed," when everyone watching you on the court sees the lackadaisical pace at which you play...

Let's just say I'm not overflowing with sympathy.  Surrounded by hard-working veterans, guys like KG who are known for taking younger players under their wing, working with Cliff Ray, widely recognized as the best big-man coach in the NBA, without the pressure to perform but with opportunities for playing time if you do perform....  what else could POB really ask for in terms of circumstances?

If he ain't makin' it here, he ain't makin' it nowhere!

I hear ya Bird. He was in the perfect spot as the Celts were not asking much from him and he couldn't handle that.

[yoursweatersux]

I'm pretty dismayed by the lack of basketball IQ being demonstrated in this thread. Birdman has no basketball skills??

How about being one of the best shot blockers in the NBA? He averages 4 blocks per 36 minutes which is good for something like 3rd in the league. THAT'S OVER 2 BLOCKS IN 19 MPG.

Not to mention, he's scoring over 6 ppg at 57.8%. Big Baby is shooting at... drumroll please... 41.6%. He rebounds better than Baby as well.

So let's recap: Chris Andersen shoots a better percentage, blocks an astronomically higher number of shots, and rebounds better than Big Baby. Stats aren't everything, but from watching both players and looking at both their stats, I can say with certainty that Andersen is better than Baby. Way better. For that matter, he's and upgrade over PJ Brown as well.

If we had signed Andersen, we would hardly be playing Big Baby, wouldn't have wasted our time on POB, and we wouldn't need to be signing this Mikki Moore fellow. As an added bonus, people wouldn't be crying so hard over the loss of PJ Brown.

I know that's a pretty huge statement about a marginal bench player, but in terms of pure effectiveness on the court and what the Celtics need (a reliable shot blocking backup big) Chris Andersen ranks somewhere like this:

1. Leon Powe
2. Chris Andersen
3. PJ Brown
4. Big Baby

Honestly I don't even know where to put Scal (it'd be beneath the Birdman though).

[yoursweatersux]

edit:

I do know where to put Scal. He's better than Big Baby as well so I'd probably put him even with PJ Brown.

[BballTim]

I'm pretty dismayed by the lack of basketball IQ being demonstrated in this thread. Birdman has no basketball skills??

How about being one of the best shot blockers in the NBA? He averages 4 blocks per 36 minutes which is good for something like 3rd in the league. THAT'S OVER 2 BLOCKS IN 19 MPG.

Not to mention, he's scoring over 6 ppg at 57.8%. Big Baby is shooting at... drumroll please... 41.6%. He rebounds better than Baby as well.

So let's recap: Chris Andersen shoots a better percentage, blocks an astronomically higher number of shots, and rebounds better than Big Baby. Stats aren't everything, but from watching both players and looking at both their stats, I can say with certainty that Andersen is better than Baby. Way better. For that matter, he's and upgrade over PJ Brown as well.

If we had signed Andersen, we would hardly be playing Big Baby, wouldn't have wasted our time on POB, and we wouldn't need to be signing this Mikki Moore fellow. As an added bonus, people wouldn't be crying so hard over the loss of PJ Brown.

  Anderson has no BBIQ or maybe just no discipline whatsoever. Sure he blocks shots. How many times did you see him try and block 3 pointers? That's crazy.

  While Anderson shoots and rebounds better than Davis, opponents shoot and rebound better against Anderson than they do against Davis, and they take both more shots and a higher percentage of inside shots against Anderson. In 48 minutes BBD (as a center)  gets outrebounded by 1.5 boards and outscored by 3.1 points. Anderson gets outrebounded by 1.1 but he gets outscored by 4.7 points in the same timeframe. I think the reason that we didn't push harder for Anderson last summer (besides the drug issues) was that Davis outplayed both POB and Anderson in that FA camp they held.

[yoursweatersux]

I'm pretty dismayed by the lack of basketball IQ being demonstrated in this thread. Birdman has no basketball skills??

How about being one of the best shot blockers in the NBA? He averages 4 blocks per 36 minutes which is good for something like 3rd in the league. THAT'S OVER 2 BLOCKS IN 19 MPG.

Not to mention, he's scoring over 6 ppg at 57.8%. Big Baby is shooting at... drumroll please... 41.6%. He rebounds better than Baby as well.

So let's recap: Chris Andersen shoots a better percentage, blocks an astronomically higher number of shots, and rebounds better than Big Baby. Stats aren't everything, but from watching both players and looking at both their stats, I can say with certainty that Andersen is better than Baby. Way better. For that matter, he's and upgrade over PJ Brown as well.

If we had signed Andersen, we would hardly be playing Big Baby, wouldn't have wasted our time on POB, and we wouldn't need to be signing this Mikki Moore fellow. As an added bonus, people wouldn't be crying so hard over the loss of PJ Brown.

  Anderson has no BBIQ or maybe just no discipline whatsoever. Sure he blocks shots. How many times did you see him try and block 3 pointers? That's crazy.

  While Anderson shoots and rebounds better than Davis, opponents shoot and rebound better against Anderson than they do against Davis, and they take both more shots and a higher percentage of inside shots against Anderson. In 48 minutes BBD (as a center)  gets outrebounded by 1.5 boards and outscored by 3.1 points. Anderson gets outrebounded by 1.1 but he gets outscored by 4.7 points in the same timeframe. I think the reason that we didn't push harder for Anderson last summer (besides the drug issues) was that Davis outplayed both POB and Anderson in that FA camp they held.

I like the approach you take with your arguments, but I'm still going to disagree because you're ignoring a HUGE factor... BBD plays for the Boston Celtics, and therefore benefits from one of the greatest team defenses of all time. If Anderson were playing for the Celtics and BBD for the Nuggets I can assure you those numbers would be flipped in the opposite direction and Andersen's superiority would be even more evident.

For the record, BBD is putting up a PER of 9.1 this season while Andersen is putting up a PER of 17.9

Let me repeat.... Chris Andersen's PER is nearly !!DOUBLE!! BBD's. That's an absolutely staggering difference.

There is absolutely, positively, no conceivable way in hell that BBD is as good as Chris Andersen. Neither is Scal, neither was POB, and neither was PJ.

Stats confirm this. PER confirms this. Common sense by attained by watching the players confirms this.

[BballTim]

I'm pretty dismayed by the lack of basketball IQ being demonstrated in this thread. Birdman has no basketball skills??

How about being one of the best shot blockers in the NBA? He averages 4 blocks per 36 minutes which is good for something like 3rd in the league. THAT'S OVER 2 BLOCKS IN 19 MPG.

Not to mention, he's scoring over 6 ppg at 57.8%. Big Baby is shooting at... drumroll please... 41.6%. He rebounds better than Baby as well.

So let's recap: Chris Andersen shoots a better percentage, blocks an astronomically higher number of shots, and rebounds better than Big Baby. Stats aren't everything, but from watching both players and looking at both their stats, I can say with certainty that Andersen is better than Baby. Way better. For that matter, he's and upgrade over PJ Brown as well.

If we had signed Andersen, we would hardly be playing Big Baby, wouldn't have wasted our time on POB, and we wouldn't need to be signing this Mikki Moore fellow. As an added bonus, people wouldn't be crying so hard over the loss of PJ Brown.

  Anderson has no BBIQ or maybe just no discipline whatsoever. Sure he blocks shots. How many times did you see him try and block 3 pointers? That's crazy.

  While Anderson shoots and rebounds better than Davis, opponents shoot and rebound better against Anderson than they do against Davis, and they take both more shots and a higher percentage of inside shots against Anderson. In 48 minutes BBD (as a center)  gets outrebounded by 1.5 boards and outscored by 3.1 points. Anderson gets outrebounded by 1.1 but he gets outscored by 4.7 points in the same timeframe. I think the reason that we didn't push harder for Anderson last summer (besides the drug issues) was that Davis outplayed both POB and Anderson in that FA camp they held.

I like the approach you take with your arguments, but I'm still going to disagree because you're ignoring a HUGE factor... BBD plays for the Boston Celtics, and therefore benefits from one of the greatest team defenses of all time. If Anderson were playing for the Celtics and BBD for the Nuggets I can assure you those numbers would be flipped in the opposite direction and Andersen's superiority would be even more evident.

For the record, BBD is putting up a PER of 9.1 this season while Andersen is putting up a PER of 17.9

Let me repeat.... Chris Andersen's PER is nearly !!DOUBLE!! BBD's. That's an absolutely staggering difference.

There is absolutely, positively, no conceivable way in hell that BBD is as good as Chris Andersen. Neither is Scal, neither was POB, and neither was PJ.

Stats confirm this. PER confirms this. Common sense by attained by watching the players confirms this.

  Put Davis on Denver and Anderson on Boston and the HUGE factor works both ways. Anderson's defensive stats get better, but his offensive stats and PER get way worse. Davis goes to Denver and his defensive stats go down but his scoring and rebounding go up. The staggering difference in PER also looks a little different when you consider that Anderson gives up more than he gets. I'm not a big Davis fan but my impression last night was that he's a better (much smarter) player. I don't think watching Anderson leave his man to try and block every shot within 10 feet of where he's standing would make people stop wishing for PJ.

[RAcker]

While the Birdman has some skills, I just do not see where he would have been greater than what we have.  Remember, our bigs (or small bigs) are very young and getting better all the time seemingly.  Yes, they are not as long as Anderson, but let's be real, he is as good as he is going to get.  I'd like to think that BBD and Leon still have some growth left.

As for Scal, he is also as good as he's going to get, but he really plays within his role and I've been quite happy with his performance on the court this season.  I love me some Veal.

[Brickowski]

BBD is way better than Anderson.  Not even close.  BBD can dribble and pass.  He has a jump shot.  Andersen can do none of those things.

[Birdbrain]

edit:

I do know where to put Scal. He's better than Big Baby as well so I'd probably put him even with PJ Brown.

Thanks for this.

[Birdbrain]

I'm sure I'm in the minority with this opinion but I think Andersen is a higher charcter guy than POB.  Laziness in a basketball player is probably the worst characteristic.

Strange enough I bet you aren't the only around here that believes this.

[cordobes]

As probably the poster who was more vocally opposed to sign Andersen (and not for "character issues", but due to his basketball skills), because I believed (and still do) we should go after another physical post defender and not a player like Andersen (I'm happy to see my views now so popular, in the off-season there was an overwhelming tendency in favor of signing him), I have to say this is hilarious.

Andersen is Moore with the ability to block and alter shots, to rebound the ball, to finish better and with better hands (meaning not Kwame Brown-like). Moore hits 15 jumpers at a decent rate, but if that was that important, we should have signed Malik Allen! Better mid-range shooter than Moore and a better defender as well!

Denigrating Moore for not being able to defend the post (true) and being creamed by Powe and simultaneously praising Moore is irony at his best.

Not surprising coming from someone who would trade Jamaal Tinsley for Shane Battier though.  I guess people just have different ways of seeing basketball.