Anyone else think Scal should start when Perk is healthy.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

Here's some more data -- though I realize some of you all are not the biggest fan of stats:

-Offensive Win Shares: Scal .2, Davis .1, Powe 1.2
-Defensive Win Shares: Scal .6, Davis 1.3, Powe 1.3

MODIFIED:
-If Scal's spacing produces a tangible variation in scoring, we should see it in +/- ratings, right?  Powe's net +/- is +101, Davis is +26, and Scal is +64.  I'm honestly just trying to figure out, when Scal is making a positive contribution, where it will show up in the data.  It should show up somewhere!

[celts55]

Here's some more data -- though I realize some of you all are not the biggest fan of stats:

-Offensive Win Shares: Scal .2, Davis .1, Powe 1.2
-Defensive Win Shares: Scal .6, Davis 1.3, Powe 1.3

MODIFIED:
-If Scal's spacing produces a tangible variation in scoring, we should see it in +/- ratings, right?  Powe's net +/- is +101, Davis is +26, and Scal is +64.  I'm honestly just trying to figure out, when Scal is making a positive contribution, where it will show up in the data.  It should show up somewhere!

As I've stated the only positive contrbutions he makes is that he's a pretty desent defender. I don't buy this whole "spreads the floor thing" since it doesn't appear that anyone guards him anyway. Teams seem content to leave him alone and let him bonb away. Contrary to what some people seem to believe, he not a very good shooter either.

[cordobes]

Plus/minus stats not adjusted, not weighted and from a small sample (less than a couple of seasons) are "kind of useless" at best and "extremely misleading" at worst - and even more with role-players that play lots of garbage time. Even adjusted +/- for lots of seasons are more of a descriptive stat that can be extremely misleading.

People just try to read too much on them. By those metrics, Perkins is a better offensive player than Pierce and Matt Bonner a better defensive player than Tim Duncan.

There is no metric that measures spacing. THere are lots of stuff in basketball that can't be measured in a quantitative way. One of the good things about european basketball is that one can have lengthy discussions about a player without anyone even mentioning a single stat. I mean, the Euroleague MVP didn't lead his team in a single statistical category. Would that ever happen in the NBA? I don't think so. And still, he was clearly the best player for everyone watching the games, completely consensual choice.

Basketball players produce externalities that are not measurable.

- Scal is the 4the best 3pt shooter in the team and the second in the bench. Of course he provides spacing, just watch the games.

- Scal doesn't produce turnovers. That's important for this team.


But, above all, people should try to be consistent:

-If Scal's spacing produces a tangible variation in scoring, we should see it in +/- ratings, right? 

I'm honestly just trying to figure out, when Scal is making a positive contribution, where it will show up in the data. 

In terms of 48 minute averages, only Ray Allen is a worse rebounder than Scal.  That's right -- Rondo and Eddie House are both more efficient rebounders.

And yet, we're a better rebounding team when Scal is on the floor! What failed there?

p.s. - And I'm of the opinion that Scal should be out of the regular rotation ASAP (although not yet), in spite of having said that Doc should put him in the rotation well before that happened - and I'm not surprised by the results so far.

[spazmonkey]

And yet, we're a better rebounding team when Scal is on the floor! What failed there?

Cordobes...I'm curious, what leads you to this conclusion?  Did I miss a post somewhere along the line?  I posted something a couple days ago comparing Scal's vs. Perk's rebounds per 36 mins, which showed Perk with a big edge.  I know you're talking about team rebounding, but I would expect that to be be better with Perk on the floor as well.

[cordobes]

And yet, we're a better rebounding team when Scal is on the floor! What failed there?

Cordobes...I'm curious, what leads you to this conclusion?  Did I miss a post somewhere along the line?  I posted something a couple days ago comparing Scal's vs. Perk's rebounds per 36 mins, which showed Perk with a big edge.  I know you're talking about team rebounding, but I would expect that to be be better with Perk on the floor as well.

Stats lead me to that conclusion (to be honest, I'm just faking it). When Scal is on the floor, we get 53.3% of the available rebounds. When he's off the floor, we only get 51.6%.

By the same reasoning of people who like to see any kind of value in these kind of stats, one can say that the *data* suggests a significant edge for "play Scal" in terms of rebounding.

[wdleehi]

And yet, we're a better rebounding team when Scal is on the floor! What failed there?

Cordobes...I'm curious, what leads you to this conclusion?  Did I miss a post somewhere along the line?  I posted something a couple days ago comparing Scal's vs. Perk's rebounds per 36 mins, which showed Perk with a big edge.  I know you're talking about team rebounding, but I would expect that to be be better with Perk on the floor as well.

Stats lead me to that conclusion (to be honest, I'm just faking it). When Scal is on the floor, we get 53.3% of the available rebounds. When he's off the floor, we only get 51.6%.

By the same reasoning of people who like to see any kind of value in these kind of stats, one can say that the *data* suggests a significant edge for "play Scal" in terms of rebounding.

Because Scali does a really good job keeping his man off the boards.

[Tr1boy]

i still think scal is a better choice to play with the starters.

You saw it tonight when perk was in the game, pp was playing 1 on 1 basketball and our defense wasn't the greatest.

When scal and big baby came in, the complexion of the game totally changed

[Fafnir]

i still think scal is a better choice to play with the starters.

You saw it tonight when perk was in the game, pp was playing 1 on 1 basketball and our defense wasn't the greatest.

When scal and big baby came in, the complexion of the game totally changed

That was largely the scheme against Orlando. Doc ran the entire offense through Pierce for much of the night. I'm not sure if they thought that the Magic would give Hedo/Boggins more help but they played him straight up most of the game and he burned them badly, getting to the line a lot.

[Bankshot]

i still think scal is a better choice to play with the starters.

You saw it tonight when perk was in the game, pp was playing 1 on 1 basketball and our defense wasn't the greatest.

When scal and big baby came in, the complexion of the game totally changed

That was largely the scheme against Orlando. Doc ran the entire offense through Pierce for much of the night. I'm not sure if they thought that the Magic would give Hedo/Boggins more help but they played him straight up most of the game and he burned them badly, getting to the line a lot.

I thought the offense ran through Pierce because Rondo wasn't getting it done setting up his teammates, although I did like the defense and rebounding of Rondo, so he did contribute in other ways.

[Fafnir]

i still think scal is a better choice to play with the starters.

You saw it tonight when perk was in the game, pp was playing 1 on 1 basketball and our defense wasn't the greatest.

When scal and big baby came in, the complexion of the game totally changed

That was largely the scheme against Orlando. Doc ran the entire offense through Pierce for much of the night. I'm not sure if they thought that the Magic would give Hedo/Boggins more help but they played him straight up most of the game and he burned them badly, getting to the line a lot.

I thought the offense ran through Pierce because Rondo wasn't getting it done setting up his teammates, although I did like the defense and rebounding of Rondo, so he did contribute in other ways.

Dwight Howard's shot blocking helps contain Rondo. Both by giving his man confidence that help will be there and by making Rondo less willing to take it inside. Unless we're pushing it in transition I think the offense will almost always go through Pierce or Garnett against the Magic.

BTW how crazy were all the long rebounds that the Magic got last night in the first quarter. Rashard Lewis had 5 or 6 of his offensive rebounds all in one stint on the floor due to them bouncing his way. We only out rebounded them by 4 but it was much more than that over the last three quarters. That is why we took control of the game more than anything.

[nickagneta]

i still think scal is a better choice to play with the starters.

You saw it tonight when perk was in the game, pp was playing 1 on 1 basketball and our defense wasn't the greatest.

When scal and big baby came in, the complexion of the game totally changed

That was largely the scheme against Orlando. Doc ran the entire offense through Pierce for much of the night. I'm not sure if they thought that the Magic would give Hedo/Boggins more help but they played him straight up most of the game and he burned them badly, getting to the line a lot.

I thought the offense ran through Pierce because Rondo wasn't getting it done setting up his teammates, although I did like the defense and rebounding of Rondo, so he did contribute in other ways.

No, the offense was running through Pierce from the first possession on until about the last 3 minutes of the game. It was by design, it had to be. Doc must have wanted to have Pierce take Turkoglu off the dribble or run the high 1-3 screen to get Nelson switched on to Pierce for the mismatch.

Either way, whatever Doc saw worked because Orlando wasn't expecting it and had no answer for the inside game early on.

[Tr1boy]

By design or not pierce seemed like he had alot more space to drive in the inside when perk wasn't playing later in the game.

Big baby nailed a couple of jumpers and we all saw dwight howard guarding him away from the paint. (which turned out to be one of the easier dunks for pp in one occasion)

[Tr1boy]

Hard to believe it or not like the threader put it up top if we had scal starting/playing more mins than perk we would have been in a position to win easier.

The floor was clogged to anyone to penetrate properly and also perk was not affective at all.

Think of house on the floor also and how much better the spacing was on the floor counts for our current team makeup