Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)

[PSquared]

My bad, Edgar.   I messed up the quotes.   Took me quite awhile to fix that mess. It's readable(I think) now.  

[Edgar]

My bad, Edgar.   I messed up the quotes.   Took me quite awhile to fix that mess. It's readable(I think) now.  

no problem man is just is really late here i will repost urs in a second in this new page ( btw dont u hate when people miss your post because theyre all in last page..)

[Edgar]

How about we bring him in as a coach/player role like Sam Cassel. So we can keep him on our roster as a coach and then worry about things later.

Why would we cut a player to bring him in if he doesn't seem to have a role on the team?

And what makes you think toine has anything to offer as a coach?

What makes you think Cassell has anything to offer as a Coach?  What has Sam-I-am-NOT have done? Just sit on the bench and joke with his teammates. TOINE COULD DO THAT! lol. 

I see the smiley face, but this comment is really out of touch with common knowledge.

It's called "A Joke", my friend.   

Duh! My point is the smiley face was a poor attempt to get a free pass on a bad idea. The fact that you try to defend the position below show that the post really revealed your views, despite using the joke frame.

It was not a poor attempt.   I really tried hard, you know.   

Cassell has long been considered by people in the NBA as coaching material. Who has ever said that about Toine?

Nobody has but that doesn't mean he can't be if he put his mind into it and dedicated himself to going that route like Sam seemingly is.   I just don't like it when people automatically say that Toine won't make a Good Coach just because they said so.   

This is pretty bad. Some poster out of the blue mentioned the fantastical idea of Walker being a pseudo-coach like Cassell, and know you have resorted to the 'who knows' argument.

And what's wrong with the 'who knows' argument?   We can't tell the future.  We don't know whether Sam CAN be that Head Coach everyone in the NBA thinks he can be....He will certainly try, though.    And that's my point regarding just dismissing Toine.  You automatically say "Bah...He won't make a Good Head coach" without any preamble or explanation as to why you think so.   

Yeah, maybe Marbury would be a great coach, who knows? If you don't see the difference between Cassell making the long expected transition to coaching and somebody coming up with the fantasy of Walker doing the same, there isn't much I can do to convince you. We can agree to disagree.

I think you missed my point entirely.  I was stating how I don't like how some people here dismiss Antoine as becoming a Head Coach(if he so chooses after his playing days are done) without any real basis or argument(and no.  PLAYING ABILITY has little to do with COACHING ABILITY.  If you can communicate with your players on what needs to be done on the court, then you expect them to go out there and use *their* Playing ability to get it done; the coach is not out there with them taking 3pt shots and the like.....

Personally, I believe Antoine is a great communicator and knows the game.  Just 'cause he can't play it efficiently doesn't make him know the game any less than Sam-I-Am.  People right now are on Sam's jock 'cause EVERYONE knows he is going into Coaching soon.   If Toine said outright that he would go into Coaching, people would be talking about him, too.   

How would you know anything about how Cassell contributes? Are you at practices? Are you in the huddles?

>>> And *YOU* are, I suppose?    (oh snap!  )

I set you up for this one! Yes, I have attended a practice, and watched Cassell work with players after the practice. Oh snap! 

ooooh!  ONE practice.  You see ONE practice and all of a sudden, you are an expert on how Sam thinks and teaches B-ball.   

oh and what about the Huddles?   Oh Snap....AGAIN.   

Considering Walker has long been considered one of the most fundamentally flawed players in the league, I don't get where anyone could get the idea the Celts or anyone would want to prepare him to join their staff.

>>> Because everyone deserves an opportunity.  Oh and since when does a person's PLAYING Career have any bearing on the ability to Coach?   If he has it, he has it.  If not, he doesn't.   But if he isn't given the opportunity to prove either way, then neither you nor I have any right to say that such-and-such player can be a great head coach or vice versa.

What is the point of the paragraph above? When did Walker say he wanted to coach? Who has ever considered him someone they wanted on their staff? Why are you talking about giving an opportunity to Walker that he isn't asking for?

1.) The Point is that I was answering your innocuous comment that you "don't get where anyone could get the idea the Celts or anyone would want to prepare him to join their staff " and I responded to it.

2.) He never said anything of the sort but I was merely pointing out that if he wanted to, he would make a very good coach despite some people here dismissing him just 'cause of his unfulfilled playing-expectations.

3.) No one has considered him but again...See #2.

4.) Just 'cause Walker isn't asking for this opportunity now, doesn't mean that he wouldn't consider it later on in his career.  Would he go for it?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  It's not for me or anyone else to say. 

I'm also shocked you can't see how basketball people could get a feel for a person's coaching potential when they are playing. You don't think players reveal their understanding of the game through the way they play and the way they discuss the game with their team?

So reading between the lines, you're basically saying that Walker would make a Terrible Head Coach 'cause he will teach "Inefficiency" to his players, right?   COME ON, MAN!!!    

And Walker is a Very Good communicator with the team, in case you haven't noticed during his tenures with Boston in the past.   

I'm surprised you disagree with this and think that players don't show their coaching potential during their playing career.

They learn about the game as they play and only when they start being an ASSISTANT COACH do they start to really learn about how to Head Coach in the League.   Isaiah Thomas didn't exactly show much coaching potential(except for that brief time in Indy where he later got canned!) now did he?   

I liked Toine. I also respect his contributions in his first run with us. But coaching sounds very far-fetched.

>>> How is it far-fetched?   Just 'cause Toine is an inefficient player doesn't mean he'll coach the same way.   He doesn't have a disease, man.   His inefficieny as a player is not contagious(though when I look around the league, I see plenty of that anyway)....

Again, no substance to your response to my post. The point remains that there is no evidence that Walker would be able to contribute as a coach. You don't bring someone in for that unless you see a potential to contribute.

And again, you miss my point(what else is new?).  I was merely stating that if given a chance, Toine could be a very good Head Coach.  That's all I'm saying.   We can go back and forth on this issue until we're blue(or rather....Green) in the face and we would both arrive at the same opposite conclusions.

I also question why Buckner gets minutes in Memphis at the same age as Walker, yet Walker doesn't play a second. Why couldn't Minnesota find time for Walker over Madsen and Cardinal, who are both about the same age and play the same position.

Because first of all, you don't pay attention to anything else around the league except the Celtics(which is not a bad thing but still....).  'Cause if you had, BOTH teams went full-blown YOUTH-MOVEMENT and as a result, Toine never played a game again.  Heck, in Memphis prior to the start of the Season, he was told by management and the coach that he wouldn't be playing at all since they were going Young all the way.   

You comment on how little substance I have in my post and then come with that ignorant statement without looking up facts.   Good lord.   

Either they didn't like his game, or they thought he would be a bad influence on the play of of the young guys. Seems like coaches don't want his influence on their young teams.

Was he REALLY a "bad influence" or was it the fact that they were going FULL-BLOWN YOUTH-MOVEMENT then?   

Where are you getting these notions?    Was he a "bad influence" when he was in Boston?  He was a Great Teammate from what I heard; it was the GM who thought he was Evil incarnate. 


 

still I like the spirit but i am not reading it..lol

[Roy Hobbs]

Enough with the sarcastic / snarky / borderline vitriolic responses to one another.  Keep it respectful, or move on.

[greenwise]

Has there ever been any player in Celtics history that has created more controversy than Antoine Walker?

It's amazing how much people like and dislike him. No matter where or how, Antoine threads are long and animated 

In the remote case that Danny signed him for his third stint in green, i can't imagine how many discussions would be around the Walker thing. In a sense it means that the guy has left some impressions during his career here.

I would like him becoming our 10th man

[TheReaLPuba]

I don't see the C's dropping Scal but if Cassell is really interested in becoming an assistant then there maybe a roster available for Walker.

The question is how much confidence does the C's have in Rondo playing 38-40 min. a night and then if needed can we rely on Gabe to spell the PG position for a few min.

[Jaycelt]

There isn't a single benefit for the Celtics in bringing back Walker, only negatives.

[guava_wrench]

I also question why Buckner gets minutes in Memphis at the same age as Walker, yet Walker doesn't play a second. Why couldn't Minnesota find time for Walker over Madsen and Cardinal, who are both about the same age and play the same position.

Because first of all, you don't pay attention to anything else around the league except the Celtics(which is not a bad thing but still....).  'Cause if you had, BOTH teams went full-blown YOUTH-MOVEMENT and as a result, Toine never played a game again.  Heck, in Memphis prior to the start of the Season, he was told by management and the coach that he wouldn't be playing at all since they were going Young all the way.   

You comment on how little substance I have in my post and then come with that ignorant statement without looking up facts.   Good lord.   

Either they didn't like his game, or they thought he would be a bad influence on the play of of the young guys. Seems like coaches don't want his influence on their young teams.

Was he REALLY a "bad influence" or was it the fact that they were going FULL-BLOWN YOUTH-MOVEMENT then?   

Where are you getting these notions?    Was he a "bad influence" when he was in Boston?  He was a Great Teammate from what I heard; it was the GM who thought he was Evil incarnate. 

You didn't understand my post. I asked why they played Buckner, Madsen, and Cardinal, who are all the same age as Walker? Why were those 32 and 31 year-olds compatible with a youth movement, when Walker wasn't? Walker even plays the same position as Madsen and Cardinal!

I'm not going to respond to the rest since the other responses were just wishful thinking arguments. We could randomly pick NBA players and suggest making them coaches, but that is not how businesses are run successfully. If you think he would be a good coach, then great. NBA executives don't seem to. NBA executives mention players like Cassell and former player Eric Snow.

I haven't said Walker can't coach. I have said there is no indication that he is interested and no perception by basketball people that they sense he would have any talent at it.

You also might want to listen to Doc's descriptions of Cassell's role on the team. It is not secret that he is being allowed to help in a coaching type role, and likely will be an assistant next year. I'm not sure why you have not read about this or heard about it on broadcasts, but this information isn't hard to find.

[PSquared]

Enough with the sarcastic / snarky / borderline vitriolic responses to one another.  Keep it respectful, or move on.

Yes, dear.   



 J/K, BIG ROY.

[PSquared]

There isn't a single benefit for the Celtics in bringing back Walker, only negatives.

For someone who has watched him give C's fans a glimmer of hope during the down years where he got ZERO help due to incompetent management, I tend to think otherwise, Jayce.

[PSquared]

You didn't understand my post. I asked why they played Buckner, Madsen, and Cardinal, who are all the same age as Walker? Why were those 32 and 31 year-olds compatible with a youth movement, when Walker wasn't? Walker even plays the same position as Madsen and Cardinal!

OMG!!  I thought I made it clear that he was TOLD THAT HE WOULDN'T BE PLAYING PRIOR TO THE SEASON ON MEMPHIS!!!  And before that, he was told mid-season that the Wolves would be going Youth-mode, too.   What part of this don't you understand?     

And who says that Buckner, Madsen, and Cardinal are "compatible" with anything?    All 3 of those guys aren't going to be on the roster following the season anyway....so, in essence, they aren't "compatible with the youth movement" either.    What Veteran is?   They let Toine go so he can go to a CONTENDER or some team that can actually use him and are NOT rebuilding(which the Grizzlies are).

I'm not going to respond to the rest since the other responses were just wishful thinking arguments. We could randomly pick NBA players and suggest making them coaches, but that is not how businesses are run successfully. If you think he would be a good coach, then great. NBA executives don't seem to. NBA executives mention players like Cassell and former player Eric Snow.

Yes, I'm sure NBA Executives are just as qualified as us in determining what makes a Good Coach.   The same guys who are making triple-figure salaries while we are struggling to make ends meet in this forsaken economy. 

I haven't said Walker can't coach. I have said there is no indication that he is interested and no perception by basketball people that they sense he would have any talent at it.

Fair enough.   I was just stating that if he wanted(Keyword being "IF"), he could become a Head Coach in this league.  He'd have to pay his dues, of course but If he has the same drive to Coach like he has to play Basketball, I don't see why he can't do it. 

You also might want to listen to Doc's descriptions of Cassell's role on the team. It is not secret that he is being allowed to help in a coaching type role, and likely will be an assistant next year. I'm not sure why you have not read about this or heard about it on broadcasts, but this information isn't hard to find.

I haven't heard about Sam becoming a Head Coach until this season.   In fact, I have never heard of any mention by ANY so-called NBA Executive saying that Sam would make a Very Good Head Coach before this season.  Sorry if I don't actually follow every bit of Cassell news there is....I have other priorities. 

[dark_lord]

There isn't a single benefit for the Celtics in bringing back Walker, only negatives.

For someone who has watched him give C's fans a glimmer of hope during the down years where he got ZERO help due to incompetent management, I tend to think otherwise, Jayce.

so we bring a guy back, when he is not a good fit for the current team, bc of things he did years ago???

this is professional sports, not biddy ball where everyone gets a medal for hustling and orange wedges at halftime.

[PSquared]

There isn't a single benefit for the Celtics in bringing back Walker, only negatives.

For someone who has watched him give C's fans a glimmer of hope during the down years where he got ZERO help due to incompetent management, I tend to think otherwise, Jayce.

so we bring a guy back, when he is not a good fit for the current team, bc of things he did years ago???

this is professional sports, not biddy ball where everyone gets a medal for hustling and orange wedges at halftime.

No. I was merely responding to Jaycelts assumption that he would only bring negatives and zero positives.   

And what is an orange wedge?   

[nickagneta]

There isn't a single benefit for the Celtics in bringing back Walker, only negatives.

For someone who has watched him give C's fans a glimmer of hope during the down years where he got ZERO help due to incompetent management, I tend to think otherwise, Jayce.

As someone who watched him give a glimmer of hope to Celtics fans during the lean years and didn't place him on a pedestal like some boyhood hero, I have to respectfully disagree and say he has nothing to offer this club.

He either can't or won't play defense ever since he got his ring in Miami 3 years ago. He tends to work outside the flow of the offense. He's a poor shooter. He can't play the PF position anymore as he has lost the ability to jump and the desire to bang. He is way, way too slow to play the 3. And he has a rather large ego that might not fit into the fabric of this team as it is no longer made up of players who played with Toine here and hold him in high regard.

As I said earlier, he is as square a peg as there is to fit into the round hole that is the need on the Celtics bench.

Besides, anyone who thinks Danny sees Walker as someone who could help this team obviously hasn't been paying much attention to the type of players that Ainge has been adding to the Big Three core since he acquired them.

[cornbreadsmart]

PLEASE sign with the lakers.