Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)

[Nerf DPOY]

Steve Francis sucks pretty bad.

OMG!   You're right....What the hell happened to HIM?  Is he even still in the league?  Whoa!   

Yeah, he's back with Houston. He used to be decent, but one can only imagine how good he thought he was.

I don't know if Shareef Abdur Rahim counts, but I think he was an all-star once. He's finished. He's kind of borderline......

I'll try to think of some more....

[PSquared]

Steve Francis sucks pretty bad.

OMG!   You're right....What the hell happened to HIM?  Is he even still in the league?  Whoa!   

Yeah, he's back with Houston. He used to be decent, but one can only imagine how good he thought he was.

I don't know if Shareef Abdur Rahim counts, but I think he was an all-star once. He's finished. He's kind of borderline......

I'll try to think of some more....

Shareef could've been a very productive player had he been on a contending team instead of being in NBA Exile back then with the Hawks.  I almost feel bad for the guy....almost.

[nickagneta]

I've been seated near the Celtics bench once this year and through a large majority of that game Sam Cassell was coaching and teaching and pointing out ways to improve to Pruitt and Rondo. It's been happening on a constant basis all year. Just because Doc is the head coach doesn't mean that no other person on the team coaches.

Coach Thibodeau is given(falsely) tons of credit by people for this defensive system. He is a great teacher of the system and coaches primarily the defensive end of things. Coach Ray coaches the big men primarily. Just because YOU don't see it happening doesn't mean it doesn't. Ray is constantly talking to Baby, Powe, Perk and others during the game in a coaching role. So is Thibodeau and so is Cassell.

Cassell is contributing to this team as a coach this year and judging for what I have seen from the PG play this year I think he's been doing a decent job.

[Bankshot]

I don't understand what happened to Walker.  He was a pretty productive player, but has declined with lightening speed!  He is only 32 years old, on the back end of his prime years, so he should still be very productive, but he's not. 

Anyone have an explanation for Antoine's quick decline?  I really fell kind of bad for him.

[nickagneta]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

[guava_wrench]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I find this argument a little problematic considering Minnesota played players the same age as him at the same position last year. Similarly, Memphis found minutes for Buckner, who is also the same age. They could have used Walker at SF, if he could play the position, as much as they can used Buckner at SG. The problem with Walker is his ability to fit into a system. That is a deal-breaker for anyone joining the Celtics.

[Bankshot]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I'm not talking about the two years he didnt' play.  I'm speaking of his last stint with the Heat.  It appeared to me (without looking at any numbers) that his performance on the court was more negative than positive.

[nickagneta]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I'm not talking about the two years he didnt' play.  I'm speaking of his last stint with the Heat.  It appeared to me (without looking at any numbers) that his performance on the court was more negative than positive.

Everyone on that Heat's team got fat and lazy after the championship. Posey was awful that year and that is the reason we were able to get him so cheap. Wade got hurt and recovered surprisingly slow, Shaq got real heavy and slow, Jason Williams' game fell off.

While I am not used to defending Walker, we really can't judge how far his game has fallen off since that last year with the Heat because he has barely played. I will say though his numbers he did play were pretty awful so there is evidence that it could have fallen off even more due to lack of diligence in keeping his body and game in shape and the fact that two different coaches and teams felt others were better suited to play.

[LB3533]

If you look at both the T-Wolves and Grizzlies rosters, you will notice that they have a boat load of younger players playing at the 3 and 4, both of which are Toine's possible playing positions.

Greg Buckner can play SG, while Toine would love to play SG he just can't and isn't viable to any team that wants to be respected.

[Toine43]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I'm not talking about the two years he didnt' play.  I'm speaking of his last stint with the Heat.  It appeared to me (without looking at any numbers) that his performance on the court was more negative than positive.

All the Heat fans that I know despise Antoine Walker for being fat, lazy, and jacking up too many ill-advised treys. From his Heat games that I remember watching, all of his positives were gone, but all of his negatives remained and probably became worse than they ever were.

[guava_wrench]

If you look at both the T-Wolves and Grizzlies rosters, you will notice that they have a boat load of younger players playing at the 3 and 4, both of which are Toine's possible playing positions.

Greg Buckner can play SG, while Toine would love to play SG he just can't and isn't viable to any team that wants to be respected.

Memphis is as thin at SF as they are at SG, especially when they had 3 young PGs. Mayo & Ross with no minutes available at PG due to Lowry & Conley (+ Jaric and Crittenton) made the same-aged Buckner just as expendable as Walker. Buckner is also a cheaper buyout.

[LB3533]

If you look at both the T-Wolves and Grizzlies rosters, you will notice that they have a boat load of younger players playing at the 3 and 4, both of which are Toine's possible playing positions.

Greg Buckner can play SG, while Toine would love to play SG he just can't and isn't viable to any team that wants to be respected.

Memphis is as thin at SF as they are at SG, especially when they had 3 young PGs. Mayo & Ross with no minutes available at PG due to Lowry & Conley (+ Jaric and Crittenton) made the same-aged Buckner just as expendable as Walker. Buckner is also a cheaper buyout.

Gay, Arthur, Warrick can all play SF just as well as PF. There is a bigger log jam at SF than there is at SG.

Basically the Grizzlies play with TWO PG's most of the time in their backcourt, which is why Buckner got some run.

[PSquared]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I find this argument a little problematic considering Minnesota played players the same age as him at the same position last year. Similarly, Memphis found minutes for Buckner, who is also the same age. They could have used Walker at SF, if he could play the position, as much as they can used Buckner at SG. The problem with Walker is his ability to fit into a system. That is a deal-breaker for anyone joining the Celtics.

Now I find YOUR argument a little problematic considering that Memphis EXPLICITLY told Walker that he wouldn't be playing at all this season.  It's not like he played, stunk it up, and THEN they decided to DNP him to hell.  Then you could bring up the argument regarding them playing Buckner and company over him....But that's not the case.   Toine wasn't even given a CHANCE in Memphis and that's the bottom line.

[PSquared]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I'm not talking about the two years he didnt' play.  I'm speaking of his last stint with the Heat.  It appeared to me (without looking at any numbers) that his performance on the court was more negative than positive.

In that following year after the Championship, despite the poor play of the Heat, they still managed to make it to the postseason....yeah they got trounced by chicago in the 1st round but Antoine was one of the few players who actually SHOWED UP in the playoffs.   So while his numbers were nothing to write home about, he at least KNEW enough to wake the F up and UP his Game to Playoff-Mode.  Too bad the rest of the Heat didn't follow suit(and Wade being injured didn't help any, either)

[PSquared]

In Antoine's defense, he can't really produce if over the last two years his two teams refuse to play him because they want to develop younger talent at his position instead of letting him play.

I'm not talking about the two years he didnt' play.  I'm speaking of his last stint with the Heat.  It appeared to me (without looking at any numbers) that his performance on the court was more negative than positive.

All the Heat fans that I know despise Antoine Walker for being fat, lazy, and jacking up too many ill-advised treys. From his Heat games that I remember watching, all of his positives were gone, but all of his negatives remained and probably became worse than they ever were.

What about SHAQ?  Wasn't he FAT and LAZY?   I think he was.  At least Toine TRIES to run down the court on a fastbreak.  Shaq just waits back on the offensive/defensive end where he was.   The same Heat fans bashed Walker for the same things they chose to ignore with Shaq just 'cause he was Shaq. 


And by the way, I'm surprised that you of all people with the Avy of you-know-who(along with the name) would even say this.   I think he lost alot, personally, but he's still got some skillz left....even you, of all people, should realize that. 

This isn't some 40-year-old grasping for a last shot at glory here....This is a 32-year-old who is still a quite capable Basketball player.  A Star? no. A Solid Contributing player. I definitely think so.