Author Topic: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)  (Read 31911 times)

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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2008, 06:52:47 AM »

Offline jackson_34

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I would love to see toine win a ring with the c's. But when someone cannot even get playing time with one of the worst teams in the league, you don't even bother.

Toine wouldnt go and try and sign with the lakers if he's after a contender, would he?

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2008, 07:15:22 AM »

Offline Tnerb02

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I'm in favor of signing Toine. We could use a 4 point shooter.

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2008, 08:24:08 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I'm in favor of signing Toine. We could use a 4 point shooter.

ha, ha. good one.

now then, in case we forget, here are walker's stats from last year in minny...

min 19:23
pts   8
fg    36.3% (averaged 8.2 shots a game)
3pt  32.5% (averaged 4.1 3pt shots a game)
ft     55%
rb    3.7
ast   1.0
to     1.0

the numbers last year clearly show a decline in what were already poor shooting percentages. antoine is what he is, a volume shooter who shoots for bad percentages.

i dont think walker was never about efficiency when it comes to shooting. and i dont think doc and ainge would welcome such an approach to offense on the team.

for reference:
powe averages 4 shots in 16 minutes, fg = 53.5%
allen averages 6.6 in 18:36 minutes, fg = 47.4%
house averages 6.4 in 17 minutes, fg = 41.6%
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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2008, 10:53:05 AM »

Offline bdm860

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It seems like most people who want Toine back want him back as just a mascot.  Sit on the end of the bench, waive your towel, collect your ring, and then retire as a C.  It would be a nice ending to the story, but very doubtfull.  Antoine wants to play, he can sit at the end of the Grizzlies bench and do that now.  He's not going to come here not to play too.

Another thing with Antoine, if he ever did come back (again) to the C's this year, it would be about a year since he even played a game!   The last time he actually played in a game was February 19, 2008 for the Twolves.  I think even the Antoine supporters will admit that his game has seriously declined over the last few seasons, how much more do you think his game would have declined without having played a game in a year?  Or how much more decline has there been that we haven't seen since we haven't seen him play in so long? Of course there is the counter argument that he would be well rested and his aging body would respond better and he would be more fresh (ala PJ Brown last year), but that theory doesn't work as well for someone with Antoine's skill set.

As for Antoine as a coach.  I don't know, I think he would make a good coach.  He's very personable and talkative and says his mind - all good qualities for a coach.  Say what you want about Antoine, but you can't deny he knows the game (just because he doesn't act on it, doesn't mean he doesn't know the game).  And all reports were saying he took Al Jefferson under his wing in his half season back here, and Al's looking pretty good to me, maybe Antoine was responsible for some of that (although Al isn't jacking up 3's, so who knows how much influence Antoine really had on him  ;D).  Also Antoine has won at every level, been a franchise corner stone, come off the bench, and gotten DNP-CD's so he could probably relate to all players.  But the thing I think that makes former players good coaches is passing/playmaking ability and this has always been one of Antoine's strengths.  People want to just remember Antoine as jacking up 3's, but in his glory years here he did do a very good job of running the offense as a point forward.  In his short lived prime, Antoine probably was labeled around the league as one of the best point forwards out there (just my opinion - I have no facts for this).  Most of the players turned coaches are guards/playmakers: Larry Brown, Scott Skiles, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, George Karl, Isiah Thomas, Doc Rivers, Avery Johnson, Terry Porter.and even potential canidates like Mark Jackson, Kenny Smith, and Sam Cassell all either guards or playmakers.  Guys like Mark Jackson and Avery Johnson get offered jobs with no experience while stars like Patrick Ewing and Kareem don't get offered any jobs despite working as assistants and starting at low levels.  I think it comes down to what skill sets translate good to coaching.  Players with good passing/playmaking ability generally make good coaches.  I've never seen a stat, but I bet the majority of player-turned-coaches were either point guards or playmakers.  So based on this (as well as the personable, talkative, etc. traits I already mentioned) I think Antoine would make a good coach, if he wanted to be, but who know's if he has any desire to do that.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 11:08:24 AM by bdm860 »

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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2008, 11:53:56 AM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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Who wouldn't want him back?

Bring him back NOW for the vet's minimum so he can aid Sam in handing out the towels during timeouts. 

What do you guys think? I can't hear you!....

"Perk is not an alley-oop guy" - Tommy Heinson - Feb 27th 2008 vs. Cleveland

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2008, 01:37:07 PM »

Offline LB3533

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We don't bring Toine back specifically for him to shoot the ball...we bring him back so he can help the 2nd unit make some plays.

Earlier in the season the 1st unit was kinda sleep walking and the 2nd unit led by Powe and Eddie helped carry the team.

Now are 2nd unit is back down to earth and losing leads that the 1st unit help establish.

Our 2nd unit can really afford to have a guy like Toine, because even if it doesn't work out, Toine can always be benched just like he was in Minny and in Memphis.

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2008, 03:26:52 PM »

Offline makaveli

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Dynamic Duo (part 3)  ;D
I love that guy and I actually think he can help oun, he's just 32...
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2008, 03:33:45 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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Hard to imagine Antoine wouldn't be a disruption playing behind Powe and Davis.  He's a more talented player, even at this stage of his career than either one of them. 

He's just not a fit for a defensive oriented team.

How is Toine more talented than Powe and Davis at this point in his career? lol, if that was the case I'm sure we'd show more interest and he'd be playing for memphis

He was also much more talented than the people he was playing behind in Minny and at least as talented as some of the players he was sitting behind in Memphis.  Minny was tanking and Memphis is obviously moving in a different direction.

Somebody who doesn't play defense doesn't fit the C's needs, period.  But Walker is a better shooter and rebounder than Davis and a much better passer than Powe.  I stand by the talent part.

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2008, 03:53:38 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Walker is a better shooter and rebounder than Davis and a much better passer than Powe.  I stand by the talent part.

I don't see how Antoine is a better rebounder than BBD; he's averaged below 7.0 rebounds per 36 minutes for three straight seasons now.  His athleticism has drastically declined, and he's pretty below average in the rebounding department at this stage.  BBD's rebound rate has declined since last season, but he's still better than Antoine.

As for shooting...  Yes, Antoine has more *range*.  However, in terms of efficiency, I'd rather have BBD (although, again, he was much better last year than he is this season).

In terms of passing, I agree; Antoine has always had good court vision and passing skills.

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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2008, 04:25:14 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Walker is a better shooter and rebounder than Davis and a much better passer than Powe.  I stand by the talent part.

I don't see how Antoine is a better rebounder than BBD; he's averaged below 7.0 rebounds per 36 minutes for three straight seasons now.  His athleticism has drastically declined, and he's pretty below average in the rebounding department at this stage.  BBD's rebound rate has declined since last season, but he's still better than Antoine.

As for shooting...  Yes, Antoine has more *range*.  However, in terms of efficiency, I'd rather have BBD (although, again, he was much better last year than he is this season).

In terms of passing, I agree; Antoine has always had good court vision and passing skills.

good points. though when talking about bbd i think we also need to mention his bulk and strength. no one moves him out from under the basket, and he can move anyone from under the basket..almost.

i dont believe that walker would not give you the strength and screens under the basket that bbd would.
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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2008, 04:34:21 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Walker is a better shooter and rebounder than Davis and a much better passer than Powe.  I stand by the talent part.

I don't see how Antoine is a better rebounder than BBD; he's averaged below 7.0 rebounds per 36 minutes for three straight seasons now.  His athleticism has drastically declined, and he's pretty below average in the rebounding department at this stage.  BBD's rebound rate has declined since last season, but he's still better than Antoine.

As for shooting...  Yes, Antoine has more *range*.  However, in terms of efficiency, I'd rather have BBD (although, again, he was much better last year than he is this season).

In terms of passing, I agree; Antoine has always had good court vision and passing skills.

good points. though when talking about bbd i think we also need to mention his bulk and strength. no one moves him out from under the basket, and he can move anyone from under the basket..almost.

i dont believe that walker would not give you the strength and screens under the basket that bbd would.

While I like BBD and enjoy his hustle and the so-called 'little things' he does, how many legal screens has the guy set this year?  This drives me absolutely nuts - and he's far from the only culprit among our bigs, though I think Perk is improving more rapidly in this area.

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Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2008, 05:40:31 PM »

Online Redz

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I have a great idea.

Let's bring back Antoine.

I also have a wonderful idea for tapping into the wonders of centrifugal force - it's called THE WHEEL.
Yup

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2008, 05:57:29 PM »

Offline Sweet17

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I doubt the C's use a roster space on Walker at this point. We wouldn't get him to we have no shot at guys like Joe Smith or Deke. It's not clear he is an upgrade from BBD/Scalabrine by the numbers. I know that hurts Walker fans but its the truth.

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2008, 06:44:43 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I doubt the C's use a roster space on Walker at this point. We wouldn't get him to we have no shot at guys like Joe Smith or Deke. It's not clear he is an upgrade from BBD/Scalabrine by the numbers. I know that hurts Walker fans but its the truth.

Statistics are pretty meaningless for end of the bench players.

Posey didn't put up the best stats yet he got paid like he was some massive FA signing.

Re: Official Bring Back Antoine Thread (No Joke)
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2008, 10:31:00 PM »

Offline PSquared

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We need more low post scoring so we ought to bring back Vin Baker while we are at it.

Do we have enough "Samuel Adams" for him?  He'll need at least Two Truck-Loads worth to get a proper buzz..... ;D