Which Celtics players are you biased against? Who can do no wrong?

[nickagneta]

As you can tell from my name, Pierce can do no wrong for me.  He's been the lone constant in my time as a fan and I loathe thinking that his retirement is not too far away (relatively speaking).  He is vastly underrated on the national stage and has deferred the attention to Garnett... Which get me to the player I am biased about.

KG really rubs me the wrong way.  Not because he is a bad player, but because his reputation is way out of wack with the reality.  When I think down the line, I will not be telling my kids, "man you should have seen that Garnett."  What would i tell them?  How he hit 18 jumpers all day long?  Has a great mid range shot, but offensively, he isn't all that special.  It frustrates the hell out of me that he doesn't take it to the post.  For an all time player, he has very few moments that we will remember 20 years from now.  I hate all the cussing and yelling when things are going great but no talking when things are going poorly.  I want to see him get in Tim Duncan's grill, not zaza pachulia or jose calderon.

Furthermore, it bothers me how much credit he gets for the team's success and how little Paul gets.  People say he brought a winning culture to the Celtics?  How?  The man never won a thing in his life, and before the trade he was just as successful as Paul Pierce.  People like to say that he has made Paul Pierce a better player and a better defender, yet they stop short of giving pierce credit.  Granted, maybe KG has motivated the guys on the defensive end, but pierce is still doing work.  I don't see KG moving Pierce's body.

The quote that sticks with me is Bob Ryan in 2008 saying about KG, "we knew he was a great player, we knew he was an all time player, but we didn't know he was this good." (or something to that nature.)  Really?  What has KG done here that he didn't do as well in Minnesota?  If anything  KG's best years were already behind him when he came to Boston.

There are countless other examples that I could go on all day about, but this is good for now.  But for all these reasons, I am extra hard on KG and keep wanting his reality to come into agreement with reputation.  I guess the reasons I'm hard on him have more to do with other's perception of his game than anything he does himself (except for the talking and lack of inside play).  So I do appreciate what he does.

Oh, and Rasheed wallace rubs me the wrong way when putting up all those threes 

Seems like someone has to do their homework on one, Kevin Garnett.

Like, who was one of the first people to say that Garnett changed the whole culture of how things were done around here. Yup, that person would be Paul Pierce:

Countered Pierce: "Everybody talks about MVP and they talk about numbers. This guy changed the whole culture around here. The mentality, from a day-to-day aspect, is changed from a year ago."

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080327/SPORTS/803270326

"If it didn't we wouldn't be here," Rivers said. "It started the first day. We had a long talk and the only thing I brought up was defense. It was great because Kevin Garnett was the guy standing up saying, 'Listen, he's right. We can score. So what? We're not going to win unless we can play defense.'

"And we did as a team. Our players had to buy into it. They have been fantastic. But Kevin has been the leader in that and when you hear Paul say Kevin has changed the culture of our team, that is what he is saying."

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzbnF-lh7CBMb3K733GkWXunUDwQ

Also, if you want to talk about something Garnett did to your children you might want to start with the fact that he was one of the best passing big men of all time. He and Larry Bird are the only players ever to average more than 20 PPG, 10 RPG, and 5 APG for 6 straight years.

You could also talk about how he is one of the greatest rebounders of his time or any time having been one of only 4 players to have ever led the league in rebounding for 4 straight years. He is also one of the greatest defensive rebounders ever being the only man(since the stat was invented) to lead the league in defensive rebounding percentage for four straight years.

Or you could talk about his leadership, defense(8 first team All-Defense Team), speed, versatility, shooting touch for a seven footer, monster dunks, and intensity.

[Edgar]

No.5 is impressive



and he didnt learn that one here

[celts55]

I don't know if biased is the right word but players I have issues with include but are not limited to:

Tony Allen, prehaps the most out of control, lowest basketball IQ guy in the league. He makes Geralg Green look like a member of mensa.

Scal, Yeah I know, he tries hard. So do the guys down at the Y.

Wallace, Seems like he scores everytime he gets the ball in the post. I guess it's hard to tells as he's only been down there like 3 times all year. Even when he has 6 inchs on a guys he shoots 3's. Geez.

House, This one is a little tough because not unlike Scal he plays hard, but he can't guard a chair, handles a ball like it has the swine flu, and only shots spot up 3 points. And to be honest, he hasn't been shooting them well lately.

This last one I'm on the fense but Ray Allen has been making a little crazy this year. He looks really good shoting mid-range jumpers off the pick and has been going to the hole with pretty good sucess, yet he keeps shooting 3's which he has not been hitting at a good clip. Move in a few feet and take the 2. I know, I'm nitpicking.

Players who get a pass:

Paul, he's carried this team for years. He can still take over in the 4th quarter if needed but has learned to pass if he doesn't have the shot at the end. Just a great player who in my humble opinion has been underrated by the rest of the league.

KG, I want to hate him, I really do. I'm an old school kind of guy and not really big on talkers, but there's just something about watching him get down on all fours while guarding someone out at the 3 point line that get's me pumped. He can pull it off because I really believe that's the only way he can play. I think he's not all the way back as his rebounding and defense are not what they were in the past, but again, I'm giving him a pass.

The last guy is Rondo, who I'm not really sure how I feel about. The guy has all the talent in the world (okay he can't shoot) but he appears to play on cruse control some of the time. He just disappears, but he's there when they need him. If he would just play with consistant energy he would be in my can do no wrong, Even if he can't hit a free throw.

[drza44]

As you can tell from my name, Pierce can do no wrong for me.  He's been the lone constant in my time as a fan and I loathe thinking that his retirement is not too far away (relatively speaking).  He is vastly underrated on the national stage and has deferred the attention to Garnett... Which get me to the player I am biased about.

KG really rubs me the wrong way.  Not because he is a bad player, but because his reputation is way out of wack with the reality.  When I think down the line, I will not be telling my kids, "man you should have seen that Garnett."  What would i tell them?  How he hit 18 jumpers all day long?  Has a great mid range shot, but offensively, he isn't all that special.  It frustrates the hell out of me that he doesn't take it to the post.  For an all time player, he has very few moments that we will remember 20 years from now.  I hate all the cussing and yelling when things are going great but no talking when things are going poorly.  I want to see him get in Tim Duncan's grill, not zaza pachulia or jose calderon.

Furthermore, it bothers me how much credit he gets for the team's success and how little Paul gets.  People say he brought a winning culture to the Celtics?  How?  The man never won a thing in his life, and before the trade he was just as successful as Paul Pierce.  People like to say that he has made Paul Pierce a better player and a better defender, yet they stop short of giving pierce credit.  Granted, maybe KG has motivated the guys on the defensive end, but pierce is still doing work.  I don't see KG moving Pierce's body.

The quote that sticks with me is Bob Ryan in 2008 saying about KG, "we knew he was a great player, we knew he was an all time player, but we didn't know he was this good." (or something to that nature.)  Really?  What has KG done here that he didn't do as well in Minnesota?  If anything  KG's best years were already behind him when he came to Boston.

There are countless other examples that I could go on all day about, but this is good for now.  But for all these reasons, I am extra hard on KG and keep wanting his reality to come into agreement with reputation.  I guess the reasons I'm hard on him have more to do with other's perception of his game than anything he does himself (except for the talking and lack of inside play).  So I do appreciate what he does.

Oh, and Rasheed wallace rubs me the wrong way when putting up all those threes 

Back on page 4 of this thread last year I said that KG was my binky and that sometimes I find Pierce as my bugger almost purely because of the thought process in this post.  I'm actually glad when someone like PierceMVP08 states it this baldly, because other times it can be hard for me to pinpoint what I'm talking about.  Because this isn't really a rare opinion among Celtics fans that I've encountered...in fact, a year later I think it could be expanded to include Rondo and Perk as well.  Essentially, for want of a better way to put it, KG still isn't universally perceived as a "Celtic" the way the home-grown guys are.  As such, there is a segment among the Celts fans that will understate all of his positives and overblow all of his negatives...and when it comes time for the "mega superstar" debates, while Kobe and Duncan have a legion of fervent supporters KG tends to get more lukewarm support from 2 dilluted fanbases where neither claims him fully.  It's kind of a shame, but outside of threads like this not really a huge deal in the big scheme of things.

As for the things about KG to remember in Boston, first and foremost is defense.  Despite him winning DPoY here, I don't think it's been fully appreciated just how ridiculous his defense has been in Boston.  In Minnesota he was an All-World defender, but in Boston I think his defense has to be all-time top-5.  When you go back and look at some of the defensive numbers that can be traced directly to KG,, it is kind of staggering.

Or, shorter answer: tell your kids that in his career Kevin Garnett played like some mad scientist had cloned half of Larry Bird and half of Bill Russell, then morphed them into one person.  To me, that has made for a pretty memorable career.

[Prof. Clutch]

The closest I'll come to being biased (and I would call myself more realistic than anything else) is towards Tony Allen.  I mean seriously, its very rare that he does anything right.  I know it was his first game back and all the other night, but wow.  He had three really stupid plays during his six minutes that were grade school mistakes (including that one play where he got control of the ball after a missed shot, had all the time in the world to make a solid outlet pass, missed Rondo who was right in front of him calling for the ball, and instead tried to pass it backwards towards our own basket to a not looking Scalabrine who was of course starting to run up the court as any big man would when you're team has gotten possession of the ball.  TA still had the dribble, he wasn't being pressured, he was directing the energy of the play in the wrong direction, and trying to pass it to a PF....ahhh!  I was yelling, ready to throw my remote at the screen when that play happened.)

I am totally willing to acknowledge TA when and if he has a good game...btw when was the last time TA had a "good game?"  Two years ago?  More?

Here's his stat line from the other night:
In 5:57 of playing time he recorded the following - 0 PTS, 0-0 FGM/FGA, 0-2 FTM/FTA, 0 STL, 2 PF, 2 TO, 1 RBD, 1 AST, +/- of -8.  That is one hell of a stat line.

[dark_lord]

from the current team....

binkies:  starting 5, marquis

who i cant stand:  TONY ALLEN!!!! 

[Kiorrik]

I can't get over how ... how 'wrong' the word "binky" sounds, so I'll have to go with "the good" and "the bad". No offense Roy

The good:

Well, I don't want to put his name in here, since I'll forever be branded a "fanboy", but you guys probably figured out already that Rondo is my fave' player on the squad. He can miss as many jumpers as he wants, as long as he keeps improving on his confidence. The shot will come by itself (well, as long as he keeps training it ofc.)

Ray Allen - for obvious reasons, but I'll name his shot, spacing, his cool and the way he's underrated. Oh, and the work ethic. Wow man.

Glen Davis - what can I say man, I just love his game. He is as "hustle" as anyone imo, and works hard, is seriously upset when he screws up and that makes him want to be better and better. I don't care about his flaws, I like seeing people that are motivated.



The bad:

Brian Scalabrine - awesome guy, he plays like Davis, but I just don't see it in him. I'm very, very sorry but I'm erm... "negatively biases" (if someone knows a better word for that, lemme know, my vocabulary needs adding.) When he's on the floor, I think we play less well.

Eddie House - only on occasion. I love Eddie in 2 type of plays: catch-and-pass or catch-and-shoot. Eddie dribbling is bad Eddie. When he brings up the ball, I sigh in frustration and get aggravated. And yes, that's happened a lot, so far, this season.




That's my 5. 3 good, 2 bad. I'm very, very sorry about my opinion on the bad guys, because I love them to death and it pains me to type this post. Especially with Eddie. God I love our house to be on fire.

[dark_lord]

Eddie House - only on occasion. I love Eddie in 2 type of plays: catch-and-pass or catch-and-shoot. Eddie dribbling is bad Eddie. When he brings up the ball, I sigh in frustration and get aggravated. And yes, that's happened a lot, so far, this season.

i agree with this.  other "bad eddie" is when he tries to shoot off the dribble.

[fairweatherfan]

That looks like something out of Zoolander.  "You're a tiger, Kevin!  You're a tiger!  Fierce!"

[PierceMVP08]

As you can tell from my name, Pierce can do no wrong for me.  He's been the lone constant in my time as a fan and I loathe thinking that his retirement is not too far away (relatively speaking).  He is vastly underrated on the national stage and has deferred the attention to Garnett... Which get me to the player I am biased about.

KG really rubs me the wrong way.  Not because he is a bad player, but because his reputation is way out of wack with the reality.  When I think down the line, I will not be telling my kids, "man you should have seen that Garnett."  What would i tell them?  How he hit 18 jumpers all day long?  Has a great mid range shot, but offensively, he isn't all that special.  It frustrates the hell out of me that he doesn't take it to the post.  For an all time player, he has very few moments that we will remember 20 years from now.  I hate all the cussing and yelling when things are going great but no talking when things are going poorly.  I want to see him get in Tim Duncan's grill, not zaza pachulia or jose calderon.

Furthermore, it bothers me how much credit he gets for the team's success and how little Paul gets.  People say he brought a winning culture to the Celtics?  How?  The man never won a thing in his life, and before the trade he was just as successful as Paul Pierce.  People like to say that he has made Paul Pierce a better player and a better defender, yet they stop short of giving pierce credit.  Granted, maybe KG has motivated the guys on the defensive end, but pierce is still doing work.  I don't see KG moving Pierce's body.

The quote that sticks with me is Bob Ryan in 2008 saying about KG, "we knew he was a great player, we knew he was an all time player, but we didn't know he was this good." (or something to that nature.)  Really?  What has KG done here that he didn't do as well in Minnesota?  If anything  KG's best years were already behind him when he came to Boston.

There are countless other examples that I could go on all day about, but this is good for now.  But for all these reasons, I am extra hard on KG and keep wanting his reality to come into agreement with reputation.  I guess the reasons I'm hard on him have more to do with other's perception of his game than anything he does himself (except for the talking and lack of inside play).  So I do appreciate what he does.

Oh, and Rasheed wallace rubs me the wrong way when putting up all those threes 

If you are trying to explain how great KG is to someone and the first thing that pops into your mind are his 18 footers then you really don't understand KG at all...

As far as talking when things are going well and not when they aren't, what do you want?! Isn't the worst thing in sports a trash talker when they are getting whomped?! Think of the guy who dunks on someone and goes crazy when their team is getting blown out. Kind of stupid, isn't it?!

I expected to get some flack for this.  Funny EJ, it seems that you and I never agree on anything regardless of the topic.  Now to be clear, I know that KG is a great player and that he does a lot of things very well.  Like I said a large part of my problem is not with him but with people's perspective on him.  I know I'm not the only person who feels like this.  I've had this conversation before.  Very rarely do you watch KG and think to yourself, "wow, that was amazing" or "he is just so good."  I know I say this with Paul, Lebron, Kobe, etc.  Heck, even Gorman says that about Paul every so often during games. Just saying.

Secondly, yes, he shouldn't back down when things are going bad.  It's easy to talk smack when you're up.  If you want to do your antics while your up, don't back down when your down.  It makes you look like a frontrunner.  Why is he noticeably more animated against bad teams?  Legendary trash talkers do it against their equals, not against pachulia.  He might as well drop it all together.

[Kiorrik]

Crap, I forgot a major baddy.

This will hurt some people.

Paul Pierce.

I can't stand the way he tries to draw fouls, and fails most of the time. Players like him are the reason refs are able to affect games the way they do. Also, when he doesn't get a foul called he has a tendency to just stand around and complain instead of hustling down to get back on D. If he'd be on my team and he'd do that, I'd be very angry. It pains me to say this guys but I just don't feel the captain. I know he's a great, I know he does a whole lot for our team and I do agree he's under-appreciated but I really, really don't like his game for some reason, just not my type of player.

[Rondo_is_better]

Crap, I forgot a major baddy.

This will hurt some people.

Paul Pierce.

I can't stand the way he tries to draw fouls, and fails most of the time. Players like him are the reason refs are able to affect games the way they do. Also, when he doesn't get a foul called he has a tendency to just stand around and complain instead of hustling down to get back on D. If he'd be on my team and he'd do that, I'd be very angry. It pains me to say this guys but I just don't feel the captain. I know he's a great, I know he does a whole lot for our team and I do agree he's under-appreciated but I really, really don't like his game for some reason, just not my type of player.

Wow. smh.

[Kiorrik]

Crap, I forgot a major baddy.

This will hurt some people.

Paul Pierce.

I can't stand the way he tries to draw fouls, and fails most of the time. Players like him are the reason refs are able to affect games the way they do. Also, when he doesn't get a foul called he has a tendency to just stand around and complain instead of hustling down to get back on D. If he'd be on my team and he'd do that, I'd be very angry. It pains me to say this guys but I just don't feel the captain. I know he's a great, I know he does a whole lot for our team and I do agree he's under-appreciated but I really, really don't like his game for some reason, just not my type of player.

Wow. smh.

I know man. I'm a b*stard for that but... I can't help it man. Just being honest.

[celticinorlando]

biased against tony allen...ray allen can do no wrong in my eyes

[drza44]

Why is he noticeably more animated against bad teams?  Legendary trash talkers do it against their equals, not against pachulia.  He might as well drop it all together.

One of the most overblown, inaccurate arguments that somehow pervades despite having no real basis in fact.  KG has very animatedly played the same head games against Duncan, Amare or Dirk that he did with Pachulia or Calderon. 

If you don't like that KG talks so much or plays so salty overall, that's one thing.  But those that somehow have tunnel vision when it happens with a bad player or guard and completely ignore that it happens just as often with All Star big men...well, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, right?