Author Topic: How big of a miscalculation is POB?  (Read 26006 times)

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Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2008, 02:02:28 PM »

Offline Chris

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2008, 02:09:26 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Don't you think he has a reason?

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2008, 02:35:06 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Don't you think he has a reason?

with ray, i honestly think he does it because ray is one of the most in shape people i have ever seen. guy is like 2% body fat and can probley run a marathon and play the next day.

not saying it's a good idea, or doc should be doing it, but out of the three of them, i think he's most likely to be able to do it.

Thats why i Lol at threads that say ray is the most effected of the three on back to backs.
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Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2008, 02:45:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What Danny gave POB was cheap change, stop making a big deal out of it.

Since we're throwing accusations around, whose to say that Danny didn't offer anything to Matt Barnes? Is there some evidence of that? Could it be possible that he wanted to play more in Phoenix? I don't know, but if there's some article that says particularly that Danny never considered nor made an offer to him, let me know... I don't remember reading one. I for one would've loved to have Barnes, and got mad at not getting him for the league min. But with that said, I don't remember reading that Ainge had no interest in him. Even so, I remember some strong sentiments against the guy from some posters here.

Also, signing POB wouldn't have prevented signing some wing like Barnes, so I don't see the "either or" scenarios you're talking about as it concerns POB.

As I said before, POB is more of adding depth to the position more than looking for a suitable back-up. Right after signing the dude, Ainge still felt he needed to get more help for the position. So, that POB is "falling down the charts" tells me nothing as far as a "miscalculation from Ainge" goes.

I really don't understand all these "sky is falling" posts as it concerns our bench. From what I've seen, the bench are the ones that have kept us in games or gotten us back in games so far. Most of our problems have come with our starters on the floor. And I know "we" all want to put blame on the Tony's and the POB's, but our main problem (as far as bench goes) has come from the PG position. Yes, I'm looking at you House...
Why is it whenever I type an OPINION and bring up possible scenarios to back up said OPINION people who don't agree start asking for proof. It is an OPINION!!! I am not declaring that it is fact or not. Take a look in all those posts of mine. You will see lots of "if"s and "maybe"s and "possibly"s. My scenarios are just things to keep in mind about how things could have been done differently.

Could they have been done they way I wanted but those ideas and players were rejected, sure. I have no proof that those avenues weren't attempted. But considering that they didn't happen it is at least likely they didn't happen, isn't it? Why do I have to provide proof?

I have an OPINION about the taste of a meal. My opinion is it didn't taste good. Must I prove it didn't taste good? I have an OPINION that a piece of clothing will be too warm to wear today. Must I prove it will be to warm out to wear that piece of clothing? I have an OPINION that Danny may have miscalculated this summer on taking a flyer on POB and that he could have done things differently to better the club. Must I prove those opinions?

I am asking if Ainge miscalculated or not. If you feel not fine. But I am not "throwing accusations" out or condemning Danny. I just feel he could have done a better job putting together a better and deeper bench this year. The bench has played well. But it could have been deeper and possibly better if Danny had done things differently. Is that such a bad thing to say about the guy?

Sorry for the rant Budweiser, and it isn't directed at you in particular, but all those that when I state an opinion and they disagree with it, want me to suddenly do research for facts and quotes and such to prove my opinion. It's an opinion, that's all it is.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2008, 02:53:37 PM »

Offline Chris

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Don't you think he has a reason?

Of course he does.  But I don't think the reason is not much different from last year.  The second unit is terrible if Ray or Pierce are not out there with them, so there is someone to handle the ball.  Then when the game is actually going on, and he doesn't want to pull the guy who was left out there with the second unit because of the flow of the game (runs, etc.), next thing you know they have played 45 minutes.

Signing some poor man's James Posey probably wouldn't have helped solve this issue (considering they had the same issue when the real James Posey was here).

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2008, 02:57:01 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Don't you think he has a reason?

Of course he does.  But I don't think the reason is not much different from last year.  The second unit is terrible if Ray or Pierce are not out there with them, so there is someone to handle the ball.  Then when the game is actually going on, and he doesn't want to pull the guy who was left out there with the second unit because of the flow of the game (runs, etc.), next thing you know they have played 45 minutes.

Signing some poor man's James Posey probably wouldn't have helped solve this issue (considering they had the same issue when the real James Posey was here).

as a side note, i've always though this is one of the reasons we are (generaly) solid against lower talent teams,and get alot of blowouts. The ability to throw a HOF'er out thier with our second unit against alot of kids and stif on the other side leads to sustaning leads with the bench, and the inablity of the other team's bench to stay even/ make a run at ours.

Last year it was allen, this year it seems to be paul that handles the B-squad's scoring pressure.

Now, obviously, you have to try to keep thier minutes down, just pointing out what i consider to be a silver lining.
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Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2008, 02:57:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.


And last year, Ray Allen played 48 minutes and 49 minutes in two of the first 5 games.  Doc does things like this. 

Don't you think he has a reason?

Of course he does.  But I don't think the reason is not much different from last year.  The second unit is terrible if Ray or Pierce are not out there with them, so there is someone to handle the ball.  Then when the game is actually going on, and he doesn't want to pull the guy who was left out there with the second unit because of the flow of the game (runs, etc.), next thing you know they have played 45 minutes.

Signing some poor man's James Posey probably wouldn't have helped solve this issue (considering they had the same issue when the real James Posey was here).
I think last year Doc said he left Ray out there for extended periods because he wanted him to work on his shot and get him out of an early funk he was in. Maybe he was doing the same thing for Pierce the other night considering he had gone 8 for his last 30 or so.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2008, 03:06:41 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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What Danny gave POB was cheap change, stop making a big deal out of it.

Since we're throwing accusations around, whose to say that Danny didn't offer anything to Matt Barnes? Is there some evidence of that? Could it be possible that he wanted to play more in Phoenix? I don't know, but if there's some article that says particularly that Danny never considered nor made an offer to him, let me know... I don't remember reading one. I for one would've loved to have Barnes, and got mad at not getting him for the league min. But with that said, I don't remember reading that Ainge had no interest in him. Even so, I remember some strong sentiments against the guy from some posters here.

Also, signing POB wouldn't have prevented signing some wing like Barnes, so I don't see the "either or" scenarios you're talking about as it concerns POB.

As I said before, POB is more of adding depth to the position more than looking for a suitable back-up. Right after signing the dude, Ainge still felt he needed to get more help for the position. So, that POB is "falling down the charts" tells me nothing as far as a "miscalculation from Ainge" goes.

I really don't understand all these "sky is falling" posts as it concerns our bench. From what I've seen, the bench are the ones that have kept us in games or gotten us back in games so far. Most of our problems have come with our starters on the floor. And I know "we" all want to put blame on the Tony's and the POB's, but our main problem (as far as bench goes) has come from the PG position. Yes, I'm looking at you House...
My scenarios are just things to keep in mind about how things could have been done differently.

See, that's the main point of everything... when, not necessarily you, but certainly plenty of people here ACCUSE Danny of doing a poor job signing free-agent players and foregoing others. They put the BLAME on him, when it's a two way decision between player and the organizations (needless to say the instructions that might be given from the owners).

It simply irks me that people come up with all these possible scenarios of what could've been, while putting the blame on Danny for them not being so.

Just like it would irk you when people blame Doc for some coaching decisions that might be out of his control (I know it does to me), and you call people out on them. I'm calling out people that do accuse Danny of "dumpster diving" and such without contemplating the circumstances of why some decisions were made.

I mean, I was one of the bigger supporters in trying to bring Barnes here, and as I said, it made me quite mad that we couldn't sign him for the league minimum. Even so, I just can't put the blame on Danny for this one... I'm quite positive that were quite a few other teams interested in him especially for the league minimum, sadly he can only choose one. So, until I read somewhere of Danny not persuing someone (as I think he did with Devean George), I think it's kinda pointless to bring up a particular situation and put "blame" on someone for the result of it without having some an abundance of information, regardless if you feel this is all your opinion.

I feel the same way about the phantom accusations that always go around... Pierce's gang signs for one, and his heavy partying during the summer for another. I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, and it applies to everything I argue against.

But as you say, this is simply MY opinion on matters on how people percieve them and argue them.

I certainly didn't like all of Danny's move during the summer, but the question is wether or not POB was a miscalculation or not, and for that to come to pass Danny would've had to misjudge the guy and over-value him. I haven't see anything that suggest that something of this sort has taken place.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #83 on: November 07, 2008, 03:16:29 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What Danny gave POB was cheap change, stop making a big deal out of it.

Since we're throwing accusations around, whose to say that Danny didn't offer anything to Matt Barnes? Is there some evidence of that? Could it be possible that he wanted to play more in Phoenix? I don't know, but if there's some article that says particularly that Danny never considered nor made an offer to him, let me know... I don't remember reading one. I for one would've loved to have Barnes, and got mad at not getting him for the league min. But with that said, I don't remember reading that Ainge had no interest in him. Even so, I remember some strong sentiments against the guy from some posters here.

Also, signing POB wouldn't have prevented signing some wing like Barnes, so I don't see the "either or" scenarios you're talking about as it concerns POB.

As I said before, POB is more of adding depth to the position more than looking for a suitable back-up. Right after signing the dude, Ainge still felt he needed to get more help for the position. So, that POB is "falling down the charts" tells me nothing as far as a "miscalculation from Ainge" goes.

I really don't understand all these "sky is falling" posts as it concerns our bench. From what I've seen, the bench are the ones that have kept us in games or gotten us back in games so far. Most of our problems have come with our starters on the floor. And I know "we" all want to put blame on the Tony's and the POB's, but our main problem (as far as bench goes) has come from the PG position. Yes, I'm looking at you House...
My scenarios are just things to keep in mind about how things could have been done differently.

See, that's the main point of everything... when, not necessarily you, but certainly plenty of people here ACCUSE Danny of doing a poor job signing free-agent players and foregoing others. They put the BLAME on him, when it's a two way decision between player and the organizations (needless to say the instructions that might be given from the owners).

It simply irks me that people come up with all these possible scenarios of what could've been, while putting the blame on Danny for them not being so.

Just like it would irk you when people blame Doc for some coaching decisions that might be out of his control (I know it does to me), and you call people out on them. I'm calling out people that do accuse Danny of "dumpster diving" and such without contemplating the circumstances of why some decisions were made.

I mean, I was one of the bigger supporters in trying to bring Barnes here, and as I said, it made me quite mad that we couldn't sign him for the league minimum. Even so, I just can't put the blame on Danny for this one... I'm quite positive that were quite a few other teams interested in him especially for the league minimum, sadly he can only choose one. So, until I read somewhere of Danny not persuing someone (as I think he did with Devean George), I think it's kinda pointless to bring up a particular situation and put "blame" on someone for the result of it without having some an abundance of information, regardless if you feel this is all your opinion.

I feel the same way about the phantom accusations that always go around... Pierce's gang signs for one, and his heavy partying during the summer for another. I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, and it applies to everything I argue against.

But as you say, this is simply MY opinion on matters on how people percieve them and argue them.
TP4U Budweiser for understanding the rant. And I agree, I don't think it's fair to call Ainge names or put down the job he did, we don't know all the circumstances behind everything. I just think he might have been able to do better. BTW, yeah Barnes not here bugged me too. This summer, before the signing period began, I was advocating Roger Mason, Kurt Thomas and Barnes if it was financially possible rather than Posey, Eddie and Tony as some wanted.

It's early on POB and he could still show something. But if I was looking at him as a first round draft pick and thinking he Walker, and Giddens were all rookies just coming in, I would have a problem with Danny using a first rounder on him judging by what I have seen thus far. And that is all I am judging him on for now. I saw Walker and Pruitt play in college so I know their game some and like those picks. I see Giddens has the tools but just is not used to the speed of the mental aspect so far. I don't see the tools so far with O'Bryant.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #84 on: November 07, 2008, 03:34:18 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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What Danny gave POB was cheap change, stop making a big deal out of it.

Since we're throwing accusations around, whose to say that Danny didn't offer anything to Matt Barnes? Is there some evidence of that? Could it be possible that he wanted to play more in Phoenix? I don't know, but if there's some article that says particularly that Danny never considered nor made an offer to him, let me know... I don't remember reading one. I for one would've loved to have Barnes, and got mad at not getting him for the league min. But with that said, I don't remember reading that Ainge had no interest in him. Even so, I remember some strong sentiments against the guy from some posters here.

Also, signing POB wouldn't have prevented signing some wing like Barnes, so I don't see the "either or" scenarios you're talking about as it concerns POB.

As I said before, POB is more of adding depth to the position more than looking for a suitable back-up. Right after signing the dude, Ainge still felt he needed to get more help for the position. So, that POB is "falling down the charts" tells me nothing as far as a "miscalculation from Ainge" goes.

I really don't understand all these "sky is falling" posts as it concerns our bench. From what I've seen, the bench are the ones that have kept us in games or gotten us back in games so far. Most of our problems have come with our starters on the floor. And I know "we" all want to put blame on the Tony's and the POB's, but our main problem (as far as bench goes) has come from the PG position. Yes, I'm looking at you House...
My scenarios are just things to keep in mind about how things could have been done differently.

See, that's the main point of everything... when, not necessarily you, but certainly plenty of people here ACCUSE Danny of doing a poor job signing free-agent players and foregoing others. They put the BLAME on him, when it's a two way decision between player and the organizations (needless to say the instructions that might be given from the owners).

It simply irks me that people come up with all these possible scenarios of what could've been, while putting the blame on Danny for them not being so.

Just like it would irk you when people blame Doc for some coaching decisions that might be out of his control (I know it does to me), and you call people out on them. I'm calling out people that do accuse Danny of "dumpster diving" and such without contemplating the circumstances of why some decisions were made.

I mean, I was one of the bigger supporters in trying to bring Barnes here, and as I said, it made me quite mad that we couldn't sign him for the league minimum. Even so, I just can't put the blame on Danny for this one... I'm quite positive that were quite a few other teams interested in him especially for the league minimum, sadly he can only choose one. So, until I read somewhere of Danny not persuing someone (as I think he did with Devean George), I think it's kinda pointless to bring up a particular situation and put "blame" on someone for the result of it without having some an abundance of information, regardless if you feel this is all your opinion.

I feel the same way about the phantom accusations that always go around... Pierce's gang signs for one, and his heavy partying during the summer for another. I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, and it applies to everything I argue against.

But as you say, this is simply MY opinion on matters on how people percieve them and argue them.
TP4U Budweiser for understanding the rant. And I agree, I don't think it's fair to call Ainge names or put down the job he did, we don't know all the circumstances behind everything. I just think he might have been able to do better. BTW, yeah Barnes not here bugged me too. This summer, before the signing period began, I was advocating Roger Mason, Kurt Thomas and Barnes if it was financially possible rather than Posey, Eddie and Tony as some wanted.

It's early on POB and he could still show something. But if I was looking at him as a first round draft pick and thinking he Walker, and Giddens were all rookies just coming in, I would have a problem with Danny using a first rounder on him judging by what I have seen thus far. And that is all I am judging him on for now. I saw Walker and Pruitt play in college so I know their game some and like those picks. I see Giddens has the tools but just is not used to the speed of the mental aspect so far. I don't see the tools so far with O'Bryant.

I'm with you in probably there being a scenario of us being better... but I guess most of our difference of opinion has little to do with POB, but more with Tony Allen and what you feel he brings to the team and to various positions.

I simply don't see how people wouldn't like the POB pick-up when you put it in the right context. I really don't believe he was signed to be our main back-up, and I draw this conclusions with Ainge's comments right after he signed him. It's an easily movable contract, and it's cheap change... 1.6 million or whatever is really nothing when you consider the comparables (and I consider the luxury tax pretty much a sunk cost). Now, if POB doesn't improve throughout the season, and Danny goes to the playoffs without addressing the C need, then I'll be the first to call out Danny. As it stands, it's too early in the season to consider wether or not Danny dropped the ball. It's simply too early, no matter how you cut it especially considering how our team has been playing so far.

But as far as I'm concerned, Danny signed the guy at a cheap value with the hopes of some improvement to be a serviceable player...if he along the season shows he can handle the back-up role, then great, if he doesn't, I couldn't care less about it, because he's really a non-issue. Simply a small investment that may or may not flourish.

I also was one of the main supporters of Danny forgetting about Posey soon and not dragging the decision, even so I can't blame him for doing so. It might have cost us a somewhat better player than what we currently have, but I think the impact is too marginal for me to even care. There were few impact players available that we could've had for me to not be fairly content with our current situation as it regards this early season.

What do we have to look forward to? The development of all our projects through the season and wether one or any or none of them pan out. What we have to look forward to, an abundance of decent players that can play at the NBA level with easily tradable contracts. What we have to look forward to, is the portion of the MLE that we haven't used yet to attract some veteran during the season if needed be.

Now, Danny's job is not done yet... as many times before, I'll simply wait and see how things go. When action is needed and he doesn't come through for us then I'll start calling him out, but for now, I don't see much reason to be whining and moaning this early in the season.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #85 on: November 07, 2008, 03:36:50 PM »

Offline Chris

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What Danny gave POB was cheap change, stop making a big deal out of it.

Since we're throwing accusations around, whose to say that Danny didn't offer anything to Matt Barnes? Is there some evidence of that? Could it be possible that he wanted to play more in Phoenix? I don't know, but if there's some article that says particularly that Danny never considered nor made an offer to him, let me know... I don't remember reading one. I for one would've loved to have Barnes, and got mad at not getting him for the league min. But with that said, I don't remember reading that Ainge had no interest in him. Even so, I remember some strong sentiments against the guy from some posters here.

Also, signing POB wouldn't have prevented signing some wing like Barnes, so I don't see the "either or" scenarios you're talking about as it concerns POB.

As I said before, POB is more of adding depth to the position more than looking for a suitable back-up. Right after signing the dude, Ainge still felt he needed to get more help for the position. So, that POB is "falling down the charts" tells me nothing as far as a "miscalculation from Ainge" goes.

I really don't understand all these "sky is falling" posts as it concerns our bench. From what I've seen, the bench are the ones that have kept us in games or gotten us back in games so far. Most of our problems have come with our starters on the floor. And I know "we" all want to put blame on the Tony's and the POB's, but our main problem (as far as bench goes) has come from the PG position. Yes, I'm looking at you House...
My scenarios are just things to keep in mind about how things could have been done differently.

See, that's the main point of everything... when, not necessarily you, but certainly plenty of people here ACCUSE Danny of doing a poor job signing free-agent players and foregoing others. They put the BLAME on him, when it's a two way decision between player and the organizations (needless to say the instructions that might be given from the owners).

It simply irks me that people come up with all these possible scenarios of what could've been, while putting the blame on Danny for them not being so.

Just like it would irk you when people blame Doc for some coaching decisions that might be out of his control (I know it does to me), and you call people out on them. I'm calling out people that do accuse Danny of "dumpster diving" and such without contemplating the circumstances of why some decisions were made.

I mean, I was one of the bigger supporters in trying to bring Barnes here, and as I said, it made me quite mad that we couldn't sign him for the league minimum. Even so, I just can't put the blame on Danny for this one... I'm quite positive that were quite a few other teams interested in him especially for the league minimum, sadly he can only choose one. So, until I read somewhere of Danny not persuing someone (as I think he did with Devean George), I think it's kinda pointless to bring up a particular situation and put "blame" on someone for the result of it without having some an abundance of information, regardless if you feel this is all your opinion.

I feel the same way about the phantom accusations that always go around... Pierce's gang signs for one, and his heavy partying during the summer for another. I've always been a believer of innocent until proven guilty, and it applies to everything I argue against.

But as you say, this is simply MY opinion on matters on how people percieve them and argue them.
TP4U Budweiser for understanding the rant. And I agree, I don't think it's fair to call Ainge names or put down the job he did, we don't know all the circumstances behind everything. I just think he might have been able to do better. BTW, yeah Barnes not here bugged me too. This summer, before the signing period began, I was advocating Roger Mason, Kurt Thomas and Barnes if it was financially possible rather than Posey, Eddie and Tony as some wanted.

It's early on POB and he could still show something. But if I was looking at him as a first round draft pick and thinking he Walker, and Giddens were all rookies just coming in, I would have a problem with Danny using a first rounder on him judging by what I have seen thus far. And that is all I am judging him on for now. I saw Walker and Pruitt play in college so I know their game some and like those picks. I see Giddens has the tools but just is not used to the speed of the mental aspect so far. I don't see the tools so far with O'Bryant.

I actually was a fan of Barnes as well.  But I can't blame the C's for not signing him, because we simply don't know the circumstances.  Considering he took such a small salary to play in Phoenix, I get the feeling that he was not interested in going elsewhere. 

It makes sense, because he gets to live in one of the nicest cities in the country to live in, and play in the perfect system for his skillset.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #86 on: November 07, 2008, 03:42:46 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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Even without Posey, the Celtics have a pretty good bench, as evidenced by the OK City game, where the bench came in and went on an 11-2 run.

Quite a few teams would be happy to have a 7-foot lottery pick like O'Bryant on the roster at minimal cost, coming to practice every day and learning.  Maybe he contributes, maybe he doesn't.

I don't underatand the fascination with players like Matt Barnes and Trevor Ariza.  Tony Allen is better than both of those guys put together (which isn't saying much BTW).  Barnes throws himelf around, commits foul after foul, and hits an occasional trey (and misses a bunch of ill advised ones). He had one decent playoff series a couple of years ago with Goldeen State and otherwise has been a fringe player.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2008, 04:07:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Pierce played 44 minutes versus Houston. Our remaining wings would struggle to guard Artest.

What's exactly is the "talent" and "skills" that people have seen in POB? Honestly, this is not a cynical question. Is it just a leap of faith? Because Blount had skills I could identify, but I don't see many of those on POB.

He doesn't defend the post. To to it, a player needs strength, footwork, technique, awareness and desire. One can get things done without some of those traits, but not without all of them (except Camby, but Camby can do other things, I guess). He isn't very mobile, he isn't hard hedging on the pick'n'roll and he loses awareness of his man when he does it. He stares too much on the ball and loses vision. He can block shots, but at a much higher rate when refs are not calling defensive 3 seconds strictly. He's slow rotating and doesn't have the awareness to identify his man. On offense, he sets weak screens, doesn't get low and breaks from them too early. I suppose he can run to gain position down low early, but he looks more comfortable playing the trailer and it doesn't matter anyway, as he shies away of physical contact and his defender just have to look at him to push him away from the post. He draws his man to the ball frequently. He isn't very good finding and blocking his man on rebounding and he handles the ball weakly, very poor protection. He doesn't have a good motor and he gets easily frustrated. Just my opinion, but that's what I've seen from him. And what has this to do with laziness? Are all the basketball players who have a tiny skillset lazy and unmotivated?

So, what am I missing here? A couple of jumpers from the elbow  than he can hit or miss, a jump hook from the shot corner and the willingness, and maybe the ability to pass, are the reasons why he has "talent" and "skills"? That's not a lot for a NBA player, no matter his length. Where's the beef? What do you see to say that his main problem is lack of motivation and effort?
And if Cordobes is right, and the more I watch this guy and the more I see him fall down the rotational chart, the more I am convinced I am, then Danny messed up giving this kid what he did.

Although some of the examples above might have been pipe dreams are you saying that a Matt Barnes wouldn't have helped more this year than a POB? You can pick apart every scenario I give you but CoachBo is right in a way in that Danny's off season wasn't very well planned out and after it blew up on him he reached and maybe reached bad.


  Did the POB signing really stop us from signing Barnes? Wouldn't the House or Cassell or TA signings have had more of an impact on whether we offered Barnes the vet min?

  As for Danny's offseason, bsck when the Posey debate was going on, the general consensus on the board was that there was no wing that was anywhere near as good as Posey and there weren't any FAs available at pg or c that would make much of an impact. Now he's being attacked for not signing those players. If he's being attacked for signing POB then there should be a FA that was available at the time that would be a significant upgrade to POB. If not, there should be a wing player who would be a big upgrade over TA that we could have had for TA's salary + POB's salary + whatever money we have left. If Ainge signed TA with someone better who's salary wasn't about 1.5M out of our range then that doesn't really involve POB.

Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2008, 04:19:27 PM »

Offline KevinGamble

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I think patience is key and time will judge.  Well, I will judge too, before too long, but POB still has plenty of time to figure out his intensity and desire, otherwise he will be cut for Pollard.
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Re: How big of a miscalculation is POB?
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2008, 07:04:55 AM »

Offline RmbrRuss

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I am a big proponent of playing guys. So I want to see OBryant ,Walker, Giddens failing on the court. We have to replace the contibutions of PJ Brown and Posey..now's the time to find out how far the current group can go. By the by wher are Ubaka (draft pick) and Devon Hardin?  Could we get Bird to give up Foster? Too bad we missed bringing back Camby to NE. That alone would have guaranteed us another title.