How big of a miscalculation is POB?

[nickagneta]

Today in the fourth game of the season Patrick O'Bryant was replaced on the active roster with Bill Walker, a second round rookie. What exactly can be read into this move?

First, it can be exactly like it was announced that this move has more to do with Walker's play than it has to do with O'Bryant's play. I am not sure I buy that though. Doc has been quoted as saying that "there is Celtic speed and then there is Patrick's speed". Or something like that. O'Bryant has seeming gone downhill publicly in his play performance and his stature with the team since starting that first pre-season game and showing so much promise.

Brian Scalabrine is higher on the depth list and higher in the rotation than is O'Bryant. I'm going to pause a moment to let that sink in for everyone.




Yes, Brian Scalabrine, the Celtics own personal team air ball expert is higher in the rotation and depth chart than POB. That all by itself speaks volumes as to where POB is in the mind of Doc Rivers. Danny might be able to sign him. But at this point, after the Cassell debacle late last season, I don't think Danny can force Doc to play him. It would be a huge mistake that could polarize this team.

Now I have to admit I have never seen O'Bryant play before game 1 of the pre-season and kept an open mind. He has shown flashes of a decent shot blocker and the touch of a decent mid range jumper. But his footwork and positioning underneath is bad, he's slow side to side, he forces things offensively, and he lacks lower body strength. Not good for what the Celtics need out of a seven foot backup.

So just how bad has Danny miscalculated on him? I know it's early but is O'Bryant's game salvageable? Can he be made into what is needed off this bench when Perk commits his usual 2nd personal foul in the first 3 minutes of a game? Does he have what it takes to last with this team?

Or will Danny cut ties early and call him a mistake? Danny has invested $3.1 million in O'Bryant, more if you count salary cap penalties. Danny gave the team's entire LLE to O'Bryant, or near enough. Could it have been spent wiser? Is that money wasted? Could this be a rather decent sized miscalculation for Danny? Would a more known commodity, someone like a Jake Voskul or Michael Doleac have been the more intelligent move? I am not saying those exact players but there were others that $3.1 million over two years could have attracted that might have been a better fit.

Or am I just too soon in asking these questions? As I have said, I left my mind open regarding POB. But his performances and lack of confidence from the coach as well as his past has me seriously considering that maybe I was mistaken in having such an open mind regarding O'Bryant. Maybe it's time to say, this was a mistake. Maybe. 

[Section301]

I'd say 3 games into the season is a little too soon to start writing any player off.  Neither Walker nor Giddens has played a minute in the regular season, and I haven't seen much of Pruitt.  I would suggest calling any of them a mistake so early would also be unwarranted.  I'd go further and suggest that Doc has not always done a good job of noticing and playing talented players who are on his roster (see Gomes, Ryan or Powe, Leon) until he is forced to do so by the vagaries of injuries, etc.  Does this mean POB is a monster who's being kept down by Doc's need to win now?  Heck if I know.  I'm just saying that it's a little soon to start Packing POB's bags. 

[guava_wrench]

Danny and Doc said before the preseason games that they hoped that POB would be able to help by the end of the season. They had no expectation of him being a contributor this early. No one should be surprised.

Give him a few months to get the system and get comfortable with his teammates.

[Las Vegas Asian]

I kinda remember Leon was strictly regulated to garbage time in the beginning last year and look how well he developed by the end of the season. Difficult to make an accurate assessment of POB with just 11 minutes under his belt, though I do wish Danny would have taken a flyer on the "Birdman" instead. He's looked decent for the Nuggets so far.

[EDWARDO]

Catastrophic. Its like the Hershel Walker trade happening on the Titanic during the Perfect Storm while listening to the Paris Hilton album... funded by Alt A mortgages...

This may hurt us more than the "Cassell debacle" which prevented us from winning last year's... uh... anyway, huge problem. Best to blow up the team, his salary will be weighing is down for years. Glad you brought this up.

[BudweiserCeltic]

There was no miscalculation from Danny. He didn't break the bank for him. This was more of an attempt to add DEPTH to the center position, than it was to acquire a legitimate back-up center. That's why Danny has mentioned, even after signing POB, that he would like to get another center.

[Roy Hobbs]

Danny and Doc said before the preseason games that they hoped that POB would be able to help by the end of the season. They had no expectation of him being a contributor this early. No one should be surprised.

Give him a few months to get the system and get comfortable with his teammates.

I agree with the first part, that Danny recognized that POB was going to be a project and take some time.

I don't attribute his problems to failure to learn the system, though.  As Doc keeps saying, he plays at "Patrick speed", meaning he's not hustling and giving effort like he should.  The knock on him in Golden State was that he was a talented but lazy player, and that seems to be what he's shown thus far.

[Sweet17]

POB is a nice pickup. He just needs to be properly motivated. I think Doc can do it - if anyone can.

[nickagneta]

while I agree it is too soon, what I have seen thus far does worry me. When Gomes, Leon, Davis, and Rondo had their moments inthe Doc doghouse because he felt they weren't ready it was still apparent that those players definitely had what it took and a sizable talent to contribute with. I am not so sure that is as apparent with POB?

As Roy said, his "tag" is that he is lazy and so far that tag has been confirmed. Also, it isn't apparent with POB that it is only a matter of time before he breaks out. I don't get that same feeling from O'Bryant that I got with the aforementioned players.

Also, as much as the LLE doesn't sound like a bunch of money $3.1 million over 2 years is not the type of money one wants to waste either. It is not a small amount of cash to this ownership group. There could have been a solid 10th player we could have added to the rotation instead of a project that may or may not ever see the court.

[no kidding]

They need to cut Giddens and Walker too.  They've been huge disappointments.

[SamuelAdams]

I thought it was more about getting in Houston's head.

Walker's aggressive play against Houston in pre-season was mahvalous. The potential to toss that explosive log on the fire was always there.

[Eeyore III]

Roy is right.  (I'd give him a TP, but I don't want him getting too far ahead of me.  )

The whole issue with POB is his motor.  The Cs took a flyer on him.  He was semi-motivated for a handful of pre-season games, and anyone could see his promise.  But then he reverted to form.  He was on the inactive list by regular-season game #4.  His history is all of a piece. 

The Cs can't motivate him, or anyone else, just by using the right techniques.  The time comes when a person has to have his own inner spark.  POB doesn't. 

Worthwhile gamble?  Maybe.  But in terms of motivation Olawakandi = POB.  I doubt that will change.  Agree with the guy who said we should have gone with Birdman.

[BballTim]

Danny might be able to sign him. But at this point, after the Cassell debacle late last season, I don't think Danny can force Doc to play him. It would be a huge mistake that could polarize this team.

  Where does this come from? First of all, I was never a Cassell guy. I wasn't excited about the signing before it happened and I had much lower expectations of him than many on this board. But calling his signing/play a debacle is ridiculous.

  But, more to the point, where did you get the notion that Danny foisted Sam on Doc and tried to force Doc play Sam? Either you have quotes to back this up or you're just making things up to cast aspersions on Danny's judgement/abilities as a gm.

Or will Danny cut ties early and call him a mistake? Danny has invested $3.1 million in O'Bryant, more if you count salary cap penalties. Danny gave the team's entire LLE to O'Bryant, or near enough. Could it have been spent wiser? Is that money wasted? Could this be a rather decent sized miscalculation for Danny? Would a more known commodity, someone like a Jake Voskul or Michael Doleac have been the more intelligent move?

  Would either of these players be playing over BBD? Would they have been active for all 4 games or would they have been sitting in suits with Sam? And, if they weren't playing, wouldn't you be claiming that Danny miscalculated when he signed them?

  How many gms look like geniuses if you judge them on players who are on the roster but not part of the regular rotation?

[cordobes]

Blame Don Nelson!

Seriously now, I never expected him to be ahead of Scalabrine in the depth chart, even more after his horrific performances in the pre-season (in spite of the amusing stuff wrote over here). Glad to see the expectations reseted to the right levels. As of now, he's terrible; let's see how much can he improve in the future.

Also, as much as the LLE doesn't sound like a bunch of money $3.1 million over 2 years is not the type of money one wants to waste either. It is not a small amount of cash to this ownership group. There could have been a solid 10th player we could have added to the rotation instead of a project that may or may not ever see the court.

Isn't his contract only 1 year guaranteed? After Miles got cut, I predicted Potsie O'Bryant would be the next one, because I thought only the 1st year of his contract was guaranteed. Does anyone knows this for sure?

[nickagneta]

Blame Don Nelson!

Seriously now, I never expected him to be ahead of Scalabrine in the depth chart, even more after his horrific performances in the pre-season (in spite of the amusing stuff wrote over here). Glad to see the expectations reseted to the right levels. As of now, he's terrible; let's see how much can he improve in the future.

Also, as much as the LLE doesn't sound like a bunch of money $3.1 million over 2 years is not the type of money one wants to waste either. It is not a small amount of cash to this ownership group. There could have been a solid 10th player we could have added to the rotation instead of a project that may or may not ever see the court.

Isn't his contract only 1 year guaranteed? After Miles got cut, I predicted Potsie O'Bryant would be the next one, because I thought only the 1st year of his contract was guaranteed. Does anyone knows this for sure?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston.htm

Hoopshype's salary page is reporting 2 years guaranteed, no options.