Breaking News: Allen Iverson for Chauncey Billups deal to go down

[moiso]

And last I knew, Billups hasn't been Mr. Big Shot for a couple of years.

[Vermont Green]

I think this is good for Detroit.  They will be a little better this year I think and then they spend the $20M and get more talent back than either Billups+McDyess or AI.  Denver may be fine also.  Billups+Anthony should be better than AI+Anthony.

[Cman]

By the way, what's the over-under on how soon Detroit resigns Lindsey Hunter?

Also, if McDyess is cut loose by Denver, I am not in favor of signing him.  I prefer Leon Powe to get those minutes.

[JBcat]

I think the great thing for Detroit is AI gives them flexibility in the backcourt in that he can run the offense at the point or play the 2 depending on who Detroit has in the game and matchups.  AI actually averaged more assists per game last year 7.1 to Billups 6.8 and he averaged nearly 10 more points per game 26.4 to Billups 17 while shooting a slightly higher FG% .458 to .448.   AI's FG% last year was his second highest ever and his 3P% was also his second highest ever.   His turnovers per game tied for the lowest of his career while doing all this on a 50 win team.  He is losing a  1/2 step or so but maybe AI has become a smarter player as he got older.    I must throw in AI also averaged about 8 more MPG than Billups so it inflates AI's stats.

  I have a ton of respect for Billups as a player but AI is in the argument for the best player ever at his size.  AI is only a year older than Billups and I think we have every reason to think Detroit can be more dangerous this year especially is Stuckey, Maxiell, and Johnson play well for them.    I think if they can keep his minutes down and keep him fresh for the playoffs (never has averaged below 39.4 MPG amazingly) they still have a chance of contending.   It was worth the risk for Detroit while clearing the cap space for a big free agent.

[action781]

Gabe Pruitt better get ready, because we will be done if we expect Eddie House to cover either Stuckey or Iverson.

Tony Allen can handle both of them in single coverage.

TP becuase i was literally going to say the same thing.

Ummm... I don't think ANYBODY in the league can cover Iverson in single coverage.  I heard that Tyronn Lue did a great job in the 2001 NBA finals besides the play where iverson famously stepped over him, but I don't really remember back then so well and that was 7 years ago. 

[Kuberski33]

Iverson has never won anything in his life and that's not going to change. From a team standpoint, he's the antithesis of Billups, who I think was a foundation player for Detroit.  However, the Pistons just went from a stale, 'here we go again' type team to one that's going to be fascinating to watch on a day in day out basis. 

I can't see him blending in with the lineup that Detroit already has in place but it will be fun to watch that try to happen.

Billups helps Denver immensely.

[LB3533]

I also don't think Rondo can stay in front of AI.

I think Rondo has a problem staying infront of alot of offensive minded PG's....even Jose Calderon.

Rondo's defense is his knack to play off the ball and be a pest and get those sneak attack steals from bigger players. (Kinda of exactly like how AI plays his defense, in the passing lanes.)

AI's career steals per game is 3rd all-time behind Jordan (2.34) and Alvin Robertson (2.70!) at 2.26!!

I know getting steals isn't really playing defense....but it is part of it.

Also, a thing about Tony Allen and his D....because there is some kind of reputation put on Tony regarding his D....Tony tends to be too undisciplined with his defense and will often bite for fakes and get called for fouls too often...I am totally not confident in Tony to guard a much quicker and craftier Allen Iverson...sure Kobe, Tony can guard...but not AI.

If Tony can't check Billups without fouling...how can Tony even think about covering AI who is about 100x more offensive minded than an already offensive minded Billups.

[crownsy]

I also don't think Rondo can stay in front of AI.

I think Rondo has a problem staying infront of alot of offensive minded PG's....even Jose Calderon.

Rondo's defense is his knack to play off the ball and be a pest and get those sneak attack steals from bigger players. (Kinda of exactly like how AI plays his defense, in the passing lanes.)

AI's career steals per game is 3rd all-time behind Jordan (2.34) and Alvin Robertson (2.70!) at 2.26!!

I know getting steals isn't really playing defense....but it is part of it.

Also, a thing about Tony Allen and his D....because there is some kind of reputation put on Tony regarding his D....Tony tends to be too undisciplined with his defense and will often bite for fakes and get called for fouls too often...I am totally not confident in Tony to guard a much quicker and craftier Allen Iverson...sure Kobe, Tony can guard...but not AI.

If Tony can't check Billups without fouling...how can Tony even think about covering AI who is about 100x more offensive minded than an already offensive minded Billups.

rondo plays terrific on the ball defense, so much so that 20% of NBA scouts voted him the best on the ball defensive PG in the league. He routinely checked AI last year in the denver games, as he was often manned up with him while ray handled the much slower carter.

and poking the ball free from a guy, as you've listed here, isn't playing the passing lanes.

im not worried about rondo keeping AI in front of him one bit, he's already done it.

25 year old AI? yes, he probley gets by rondo. 33 year old A.i doesn't have the explosive quickness he used to.

[LB3533]

I don't care if it is 100% of the NBA Scouts....I have seen countless times where Rondo gets beat off the dribble by some of the less PGs in this league.....I've heard countless times where Gorman and Tommy have stated ON AIR that Rondo should not be getting beat like that and needs to do a better job of staying infront of his own man.

Also, a point about Iverson going to have trouble guarding Rondo....guard what exactly?

Of our starting 5, opposing defenses only need to guard 3 players....the other two are not offensively gameplanned for....ever.

Because of this, if 2 of our Big 3 are not "on their game" our starting unit becomes stagnant on offense and the ball starts to "stick" and we fail to play Celtics' Basketball.

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Iverson's box score from 2007-2008:
Date            Min       M    A    Pct        3M    3A    Pct     FM    FA    Pct         Tot        Ast       Stl            Pts

Feb 19     45:00      7    16    43.8        0    1    0.0        14    20    70.0             7        9       0              28    
Nov 7        32:58      6    11    54.6        2    6    33.3     8    11    72.7               0        4        3              22

Disregarding Iverson's 25 ppg average against us last year in 2 games....disregarding his 48% from the field and his 6.5 apg.....the one stat that all anyone needs to focus on that will tell the tale about whether or not Rondo can check Iverson or not is FTA....and AI averaged over 15 attempts against the C's in 2 games.....1 game he got to the line 20 times (which I am sure is not all on Rondo's head, but we all get the picture).

Edit: I also thought TJ Ford got wherever and whatever he wanted that other night in Indy. (Though, I think that was more of a function to the entire team being fatigued, not just Rondo's inability to defend his own man).

[Scribbles]

I don't care if it is 100% of the NBA Scouts....I have seen countless times where Rondo gets beat off the dribble by some of the less PGs in this league.....I've heard countless times where Gorman and Tommy have stated ON AIR that Rondo should not be getting beat like that and needs to do a better job of staying infront of his own man.

Also, a point about Iverson going to have trouble guarding Rondo....guard what exactly?

Of our starting 5, opposing defenses only need to guard 3 players....the other two are not offensively gameplanned for....ever.

Because of this, if 2 of our Big 3 are not "on their game" our starting unit becomes stagnant on offense and the ball starts to "stick" and we fail to play Celtics' Basketball.

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Iverson's box score from 2007-2008:
Date            Min       M    A    Pct        3M    3A    Pct     FM    FA    Pct         Tot        Ast       Stl            Pts

Feb 19     45:00      7    16    43.8        0    1    0.0        14    20    70.0             7        9       0              28    
Nov 7        32:58      6    11    54.6        2    6    33.3     8    11    72.7               0        4        3              22

Disregarding Iverson's 25 ppg average against us last year in 2 games....disregarding his 48% from the field and his 6.5 apg.....the one stat that all anyone needs to focus on that will tell the tale about whether or not Rondo can check Iverson or not is FTA....and AI averaged over 15 attempts against the C's in 2 games.....1 game he got to the line 20 times (which I am sure is not all on Rondo's head, but we all get the picture).

Edit: I also thought TJ Ford got wherever and whatever he wanted that other night in Indy. (Though, I think that was more of a function to the entire team being fatigued, not just Rondo's inability to defend his own man).

The points you make about our starters are the same issues of last season.  What was the result's at the end of the season for the Celtics? 

[blueygreen]

I don't care if it is 100% of the NBA Scouts....I have seen countless times where Rondo gets beat off the dribble by some of the less PGs in this league.....I've heard countless times where Gorman and Tommy have stated ON AIR that Rondo should not be getting beat like that and needs to do a better job of staying infront of his own man.

Also, a point about Iverson going to have trouble guarding Rondo....guard what exactly?

Of our starting 5, opposing defenses only need to guard 3 players....the other two are not offensively gameplanned for....ever.

Because of this, if 2 of our Big 3 are not "on their game" our starting unit becomes stagnant on offense and the ball starts to "stick" and we fail to play Celtics' Basketball.

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Iverson's box score from 2007-2008:
Date            Min       M    A    Pct        3M    3A    Pct     FM    FA    Pct         Tot        Ast       Stl            Pts

Feb 19     45:00      7    16    43.8        0    1    0.0        14    20    70.0             7        9       0              28    
Nov 7        32:58      6    11    54.6        2    6    33.3     8    11    72.7               0        4        3              22

Disregarding Iverson's 25 ppg average against us last year in 2 games....disregarding his 48% from the field and his 6.5 apg.....the one stat that all anyone needs to focus on that will tell the tale about whether or not Rondo can check Iverson or not is FTA....and AI averaged over 15 attempts against the C's in 2 games.....1 game he got to the line 20 times (which I am sure is not all on Rondo's head, but we all get the picture).

Edit: I also thought TJ Ford got wherever and whatever he wanted that other night in Indy. (Though, I think that was more of a function to the entire team being fatigued, not just Rondo's inability to defend his own man).

Good stuff, TP for you. Also about TJ Ford, I remember that he basically got his way against use last year against Boston/Rajon, so it may not just be a product of our team stagnation the other day.

Scribbles: You also make a good point, but you have to remember that other teams have had another year and offseason to plan for us, and they're more likely to specifically plan against the defending champs rather than some up and coming team that could possibly contend.

[crownsy]

I don't care if it is 100% of the NBA Scouts....I have seen countless times where Rondo gets beat off the dribble by some of the less PGs in this league.....I've heard countless times where Gorman and Tommy have stated ON AIR that Rondo should not be getting beat like that and needs to do a better job of staying infront of his own man.

Also, a point about Iverson going to have trouble guarding Rondo....guard what exactly?

Of our starting 5, opposing defenses only need to guard 3 players....the other two are not offensively gameplanned for....ever.

1. Ok, well if were goign back to the "I see what i see, and i'll broker no argument from you by stats or your own personal impresions" Line of reasoning, then i suppose i have to conceed the point, since All the times he's played lock down on the ball defense on other great quick PG's (CP3 twice last year, nash, AI at home, at denver he let up to much, Tony parker in both spurs games)

don't count. Of course he's had bad games, he's not an all NBA team defender (yet), and he's barley into his third year.


2. Iverson got T-O-A-S-T-E-D by rajon last year on the fast break and off the dribble. in the game at the garden, A.I was directly responsable for at least 3 fouls on his bigs when rondo drove by him and his bigs had to help late. he did play much better against rajon in denver, but that was also because that game he only saw rajon for short stretchs, as he stayed on ray. since we generaly run the break alot of boards and steals, and rondo has been getting to the line a ton (12 trips i belive in 3 games? might be wrong on this one, but he went at least 10 times in each of the first two games) i dont see that stopping now that he's in detroit.

billups was a much tougher matchup for rondo, since he could abuse him in the post,a nd hurt him all year and the playoffs on offense. AI wasen't that much of a problem last year, and A.I's speed is not close to fords now. younger A.I's was (in fact i'd say it was better), older A.I's isn't.

3. opposing starting 5's already know how to clamp us down on offenseeh?

apperntly not enough to keep us from winning 66 games and a title. I guess detroit, clevland, and L.A missed the memo...

[Roy Hobbs]

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Yes... that strategy worked wonders for the Lakers, didn't it?  It shocks me how many Celtics fans degrade Ray Allen and his contribution.

[crownsy]

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Yes... that strategy worked wonders for the Lakers, didn't it?  It shocks me how many Celtics fans degrade Ray Allen and his contribution.

well he's not flashy roy, forget the stats you've pulled out countless times or reality, people will always remain convinced that ray is a drag on the team and should be traded for someone flashier.

Me, i'll take the super effiecnt third option thanks.

[LB3533]

Opposing defenses are pretty keen already on how to stop ours starting 5:

1.) Ignore Perk
2.) Ignore Rondo
3.) Leave Ray Allen wide open or clamp him down taking him right out of the offense
4.) hope either KG or PP is off their game

Yes... that strategy worked wonders for the Lakers, didn't it?  It shocks me how many Celtics fans degrade Ray Allen and his contribution.

Did it sound like I was degrading Ray...if so, I apologize, for it was not my intent.

Ray Allen has had a career where he had to shoot with people in his mug....he has not been on a team where he has had 2 superstars to draw attention away from him, thus he is not used to shooting all his jumpers WIDE OPEN.

I've seen Ray miss more wide open shots last season when normally if a good shooter is wide open you have that great feeling the shot is certainly going to go in.

I feel that way about Eddie House...because Eddie House's career has been all about hitting open shots so he is used to it. It's just not the same for Ray Allen's career.