Celticsblog Fantasy Roster Review

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not going to get into any arguments over it because I think the entire point of this thing was to kill time and have fun... but I am confident that, as of now, my team is full of better players, from both a talent and a fit perspectives, around LeBron James than either the 2008 or 2007 Cavaliers playoff teams.  He took one of those to the NBA Finals and the other to the brink of all brinks against the eventual World Champs.  I don't think my team is necessarily the best, and for where I drafted I had no belief that I would build the top team (the 1st pick (or 2nd) is brutal in these types of formats.... getting the 59th best player as our #2 option is tough), but the players I put around LeBron compared to those around him in real life tells me a lot about how competitive my team would be.

But, as I mentioned a few days ago, the collective record if all GMs were polled on their team would be like a 65% winning percentage instead of the required 50% if all 2,460 games were to be played... so I'm sure 2/3 of the league thinks their team is a contender as well.

Looking forward to the rest of the rounds.

Yeah, I like your team.  I still think it's a year or two away (I don't think Biedrins or Amir are ready to be *key* contributors yet) but it certainly has a bright future.  Portland / Las Vegas / Minnesota are the teams of the future (and add Boston in there out of the East, and probably a couple of other teams I'm forgetting.)

I'm not sure the argument that Lebron made the Finals with lesser talent in real life holds up, though.  I think the talent you'd be playing against in our mock league is much stronger than Lebron had to face in the East (due to elite talent being consolidated on a few squads in our draft, and you playing in a stacked conference).

Thus, I'm not guaranteeing a trip to the Finals for you, but you're certainly going to be within striking distance every year (assuming Amir doesn't totally flop.)

[Gainesville Celtic]

Portland - one trade using the depth can change them from West favorite to NBA favorite.

I agree that the teams in the East are pretty formidable, with New Jersey being my clear favorite.  The one thing my team has over just about any Eastern squad, though, is athleticism.  I'd simply try to run the older teams out of the gym.

I'm not saying it would work, but it would be the strategy.

Tough to do in a 7 game series. 

Iverson, Delonte, Danny Granger, Joakim Noah and Thaddeus Young are ready to "do some laps" with the Blazers....

Our only fear is that if Duncan laughs at the "old east" getting outrun will he get tossed by Joey Crawford again?

[bdm860]

NETS -- a lot of offensive firepower, but how do they stop Amare or Duncan or even Boozer in the last 2 minutes of a Game 7?  Da West is small, albeit offensively talented for a PF, and Okur has never been a great defender.  And can Maggette, Pierce and Da West all get enough touches? What happens with Okur getting a reduced role?  Does Gooden accept being a 6th man?

A little late to the party on this one (and thanks to all of you have given love to the Nets).  Roy I gave you a TP when I read you said you thoughts the Nets were the front runner in the East, then wish I could take it back when I saw a few comments later you wrote that the Blazers would run their old bones out the gym  .  Here's my thoughts on my team in direct response to Gainesville Celtic's opinion, (and to anyone else sleeping on the Nets):

NETS -- a lot of offensive firepower, but how do they stop Amare or Duncan or even Boozer in the last 2 minutes of a Game 7?

Duncan didn't dominate David West in the playoffs this year, some will say David West played better than Duncan in their 7 games series, so why would next year when West will probably be a little better and Duncan a little worse be any different?  Did anybody dominated David West this year? Boozer, Amare, and Duncan don't dominate the last 2 minutes of games now, let alone against against David West.

And can Maggette, Pierce and Da West all get enough touches?

I think that's the magic of having Jason Kidd, he'll keep everyone involved and happy.  Pierce played this year with 2 other career 20ppg players, West plays with Chris Paul and Chandler who get alot of touches, and Maggette was willing to play for the Celtics or Spurs (or so he says) this year, and also came off the bench in the 06 and 07 seasons so I don't think he will have a problem with his touches. 

What happens with Okur getting a reduced role?

And Okur was the 3rd best player on the Jazz this year and is not one of the main offensive options, so I don't think he will have a problem with touches either, also I don't really see a reduced role for him. Every player in my starting 5 has shown the ability to thrive without being the best player on his team.

Does Gooden accept being a 6th man?

I think Gooden will (but of course I think that, this is my fantasy world here, and we're talking about my fantasy team  )He knows how to take a backseat to other players (the man did play with Lebron, and after getting traded to the lowly Bulls (we're he came off the bench for a few games) I think he would gladly come off the bench for a powerhouse team.

Pierce and Maggette at the wings, I don't think many teams will have a 2/3 combination that are bigger than them.  Two of the better rebounding wings int he game, but with the size and skill to over power a player too.  How many teams will have 2 big wings to matchup with both of them?

The thing I like about my team, while I have alot of good players, I don't think sharing the ball and minutes will be a problem.  Everyone of my players is used to not being the best player on their team, arguably none of them were the best players on their teams last year, yet they all still won. Also there's a lot of players on other teams that could be better than any one of my players, but I think I can win 4 out of the 5 starting lineup matches most nights, I don't think I'll ever (arguably) have less than 3 out of the 5 matchups in my favor.  My team is still being built (as I know everyone's else is too) but I just wanted to throw that out there.  It's a team game, no one player is going to beat us. 4 of my 5 startes have made the All-Star team within the last 2 years, and Maggette is All-Star talent.

I have Jason Kidd - nothing needs to be said, it's Jason Kidd. Old, but we're going for it all this year!

Pierce - 66 wins, Finals MVP, most would say second best player on his team.

West - 56 wins, serious player in this years playoffs.

Okur - 54 wins, best home record in the league.  Has never been one of the top 2 players on his team.

Maggette - came off the bench for the Clippers playoff run a few years ago.

Fisher - 3 rings, starting point guard for a Lakers team that steamrolled through the Western Conference during the playoffs, and he's coming off my bench.  Played with big egos before, and my team definitely has smaller egos than those past Lakers teams.

Przybilla - adds toughness, and could be one of the best backup Centers in the league next year.  Helped carry the Blazers to 40+ wins this year (see comments when I drafted him).

I don't need to point to stats like ppg and rpg and all that stuff.  I point to the wins.

[Roy Hobbs]

Nice writeup, bdm860.  I think you guys are probably the favorites for the title, although I think Portland will win best regular season record.  Over the coming years, though, watch out.

I'm not sure that the "3 out of 5" rule applies to my starting lineup, though.  It's close.

Here's my breakdown:

Horford = Okur (different strengths in the present, but overall, probably about even).

Amare > West (Amare is the best offensive big man in the world)

Gay < Pierce (I love Rudy, but Pierce is clearly better).

Iguodala > Maggette (in terms of all-around game, I think Iggy has the clear advantage here).

T.J. Ford = Jason Kidd (Kidd is getting old, man.)

So, I rate it 2-1-2.  I could see it going 1-2-2 in the other direction, but I don't see either of us *clearly* having a better starting lineup (in terms of talent) than the other.

(Why I like your team for the present, though, is due to experience.  I think any series between our teams would go seven games, though.)

[Big Ticket]

I'm not going to get into any arguments over it because I think the entire point of this thing was to kill time and have fun... but I am confident that, as of now, my team is full of better players, from both a talent and a fit perspectives, around LeBron James than either the 2008 or 2007 Cavaliers playoff teams.  He took one of those to the NBA Finals and the other to the brink of all brinks against the eventual World Champs.  I don't think my team is necessarily the best, and for where I drafted I had no belief that I would build the top team (the 1st pick (or 2nd) is brutal in these types of formats.... getting the 59th best player as our #2 option is tough), but the players I put around LeBron compared to those around him in real life tells me a lot about how competitive my team would be.

But, as I mentioned a few days ago, the collective record if all GMs were polled on their team would be like a 65% winning percentage instead of the required 50% if all 2,460 games were to be played... so I'm sure 2/3 of the league thinks their team is a contender as well.

Looking forward to the rest of the rounds.

I'm not sure the argument that Lebron made the Finals with lesser talent in real life holds up, though.  I think the talent you'd be playing against in our mock league is much stronger than Lebron had to face in the East (due to elite talent being consolidated on a few squads in our draft, and you playing in a stacked conference).

I anticipated this response from someone, but don't fully agree.  It's still the same number of teams, the same players, probably about the same percentage of win now vs. win later... sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters... but I don't know if I rate any of these fake teams above the 2007-2008 Celtics, and LeBron was a whisker from knocking them off.

I do agree about Amir Johnson though... a lot of my team's fortunes lie in his development this year.  I hope he gets PT.

[Scribbles]

I'm not going to get into any arguments over it because I think the entire point of this thing was to kill time and have fun... but I am confident that, as of now, my team is full of better players, from both a talent and a fit perspectives, around LeBron James than either the 2008 or 2007 Cavaliers playoff teams.  He took one of those to the NBA Finals and the other to the brink of all brinks against the eventual World Champs.  I don't think my team is necessarily the best, and for where I drafted I had no belief that I would build the top team (the 1st pick (or 2nd) is brutal in these types of formats.... getting the 59th best player as our #2 option is tough), but the players I put around LeBron compared to those around him in real life tells me a lot about how competitive my team would be.

But, as I mentioned a few days ago, the collective record if all GMs were polled on their team would be like a 65% winning percentage instead of the required 50% if all 2,460 games were to be played... so I'm sure 2/3 of the league thinks their team is a contender as well.

Looking forward to the rest of the rounds.

I'm not sure the argument that Lebron made the Finals with lesser talent in real life holds up, though.  I think the talent you'd be playing against in our mock league is much stronger than Lebron had to face in the East (due to elite talent being consolidated on a few squads in our draft, and you playing in a stacked conference).

I anticipated this response from someone, but don't fully agree.  It's still the same number of teams, the same players, probably about the same percentage of win now vs. win later... sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters... but I don't know if I rate any of these fake teams above the 2007-2008 Celtics, and LeBron was a whisker from knocking them off.

I do agree about Amir Johnson though... a lot of my team's fortunes lie in his development this year.  I hope he gets PT.

I can't see Amir Johnson getting playing time in real life if they signed Brown to a contract offer.  Wallace, Brown, McDyess, Maxiell, Samb, and Plaisted are all better or just as good as Amir.  I can't see him getting much playing time unless theres a trade or injury. 

[Gainesville Celtic]

NETS -- a lot of offensive firepower, but how do they stop Amare or Duncan or even Boozer in the last 2 minutes of a Game 7?  Da West is small, albeit offensively talented for a PF, and Okur has never been a great defender.  And can Maggette, Pierce and Da West all get enough touches? What happens with Okur getting a reduced role?  Does Gooden accept being a 6th man?

A little late to the party on this one (and thanks to all of you have given love to the Nets).  Roy I gave you a TP when I read you said you thoughts the Nets were the front runner in the East, then wish I could take it back when I saw a few comments later you wrote that the Blazers would run their old bones out the gym  .  Here's my thoughts on my team in direct response to Gainesville Celtic's opinion, (and to anyone else sleeping on the Nets):

NETS -- a lot of offensive firepower, but how do they stop Amare or Duncan or even Boozer in the last 2 minutes of a Game 7?

Duncan didn't dominate David West in the playoffs this year, some will say David West played better than Duncan in their 7 games series, so why would next year when West will probably be a little better and Duncan a little worse be any different?  Did anybody dominated David West this year? Boozer, Amare, and Duncan don't dominate the last 2 minutes of games now, let alone against against David West.

And can Maggette, Pierce and Da West all get enough touches?

I think that's the magic of having Jason Kidd, he'll keep everyone involved and happy.  Pierce played this year with 2 other career 20ppg players, West plays with Chris Paul and Chandler who get alot of touches, and Maggette was willing to play for the Celtics or Spurs (or so he says) this year, and also came off the bench in the 06 and 07 seasons so I don't think he will have a problem with his touches. 

What happens with Okur getting a reduced role?

And Okur was the 3rd best player on the Jazz this year and is not one of the main offensive options, so I don't think he will have a problem with touches either, also I don't really see a reduced role for him. Every player in my starting 5 has shown the ability to thrive without being the best player on his team.

Does Gooden accept being a 6th man?

I think Gooden will (but of course I think that, this is my fantasy world here, and we're talking about my fantasy team  )He knows how to take a backseat to other players (the man did play with Lebron, and after getting traded to the lowly Bulls (we're he came off the bench for a few games) I think he would gladly come off the bench for a powerhouse team.

Pierce and Maggette at the wings, I don't think many teams will have a 2/3 combination that are bigger than them.  Two of the better rebounding wings int he game, but with the size and skill to over power a player too.  How many teams will have 2 big wings to matchup with both of them?

The thing I like about my team, while I have alot of good players, I don't think sharing the ball and minutes will be a problem.  Everyone of my players is used to not being the best player on their team, arguably none of them were the best players on their teams last year, yet they all still won. Also there's a lot of players on other teams that could be better than any one of my players, but I think I can win 4 out of the 5 starting lineup matches most nights, I don't think I'll ever (arguably) have less than 3 out of the 5 matchups in my favor.  My team is still being built (as I know everyone's else is too) but I just wanted to throw that out there.  It's a team game, no one player is going to beat us. 4 of my 5 startes have made the All-Star team within the last 2 years, and Maggette is All-Star talent.

I have Jason Kidd - nothing needs to be said, it's Jason Kidd. Old, but we're going for it all this year!

Pierce - 66 wins, Finals MVP, most would say second best player on his team.

West - 56 wins, serious player in this years playoffs.

Okur - 54 wins, best home record in the league.  Has never been one of the top 2 players on his team.

Maggette - came off the bench for the Clippers playoff run a few years ago.

Fisher - 3 rings, starting point guard for a Lakers team that steamrolled through the Western Conference during the playoffs, and he's coming off my bench.  Played with big egos before, and my team definitely has smaller egos than those past Lakers teams.

Przybilla - adds toughness, and could be one of the best backup Centers in the league next year.  Helped carry the Blazers to 40+ wins this year (see comments when I drafted him).

I don't need to point to stats like ppg and rpg and all that stuff.  I point to the wins.

Nice write-up bdm860... you've done a solid job of convincing me that I was underrating the Nets...

I do still think that the issue of getting an end of the game stop will be tough -- against say a team like the Magics (Iverson, Granger, Duncan).  West will play a little smaller without a guy like Tyson Chandler behind him. 

There's still some time for a team like the Magics to bulk up enough to handle the star power posed by the Nets though... Harpring was brought in, in large part, to frustrate a guy like Maggette alowing Granger to go straight up vs. Pierce.

I'm hoping for a Playoff clash!  Should be a good one.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not going to get into any arguments over it because I think the entire point of this thing was to kill time and have fun... but I am confident that, as of now, my team is full of better players, from both a talent and a fit perspectives, around LeBron James than either the 2008 or 2007 Cavaliers playoff teams.  He took one of those to the NBA Finals and the other to the brink of all brinks against the eventual World Champs.  I don't think my team is necessarily the best, and for where I drafted I had no belief that I would build the top team (the 1st pick (or 2nd) is brutal in these types of formats.... getting the 59th best player as our #2 option is tough), but the players I put around LeBron compared to those around him in real life tells me a lot about how competitive my team would be.

But, as I mentioned a few days ago, the collective record if all GMs were polled on their team would be like a 65% winning percentage instead of the required 50% if all 2,460 games were to be played... so I'm sure 2/3 of the league thinks their team is a contender as well.

Looking forward to the rest of the rounds.

I'm not sure the argument that Lebron made the Finals with lesser talent in real life holds up, though.  I think the talent you'd be playing against in our mock league is much stronger than Lebron had to face in the East (due to elite talent being consolidated on a few squads in our draft, and you playing in a stacked conference).

I anticipated this response from someone, but don't fully agree.  It's still the same number of teams, the same players, probably about the same percentage of win now vs. win later... sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters... but I don't know if I rate any of these fake teams above the 2007-2008 Celtics, and LeBron was a whisker from knocking them off.

I do agree about Amir Johnson though... a lot of my team's fortunes lie in his development this year.  I hope he gets PT.

I can't see Amir Johnson getting playing time in real life if they signed Brown to a contract offer.  Wallace, Brown, McDyess, Maxiell, Samb, and Plaisted are all better or just as good as Amir.  I can't see him getting much playing time unless theres a trade or injury. 

You think Plaisted is better than Amir?  I don't think I'd go that far.

[Roy Hobbs]

sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters

To respond to this particular criticism (since I've seen it repeated a couple of times):  the teams that have stacked rosters, or made several trades, or that made pre-draft trades didn't do anything "unfair".  They were on the same playing field as everyone else.  If some teams put themselves in a better draft position, I would tend to give them credit for it, rather than to suggest that they did something improper.

I'll use LarBrd33 as an example.  He PM'd literally ever manager in the league, several times.  He made a number of good deals for his team, mostly because he wouldn't settle for decent or average value.  He held out until he clearly won each trade he made.  This wasn't anything unfair, but rather was good negotiating on his part.  Now, we have a Commissioner in place to make sure that some trades don't get too crazy, but overall, this game rewards those who are the most active and the most talented at negotiating.

[wdleehi]

My top teams after day 7.

Atlantic - Knicks.   I am a KG believer

Central - Detroit.  

Southeast - Magic


4th Team (though I think 2nd in the East right now) - Nets




Northwest - Portland

Pacific - Warriors

Southeast - Rockets

4th team (though I think 3rd in the East right now) - Timberwolves

[wdleehi]

sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters

To respond to this particular criticism (since I've seen it repeated a couple of times):  the teams that have stacked rosters, or made several trades, or that made pre-draft trades didn't do anything "unfair".  They were on the same playing field as everyone else.  If some teams put themselves in a better draft position, I would tend to give them credit for it, rather than to suggest that they did something improper.

I'll use LarBrd33 as an example.  He PM'd literally ever manager in the league, several times.  He made a number of good deals for his team, mostly because he wouldn't settle for decent or average value.  He held out until he clearly won each trade he made.  This wasn't anything unfair, but rather was good negotiating on his part.  Now, we have a Commissioner in place to make sure that some trades don't get too crazy, but overall, this game rewards those who are the most active and the most talented at negotiating.

And to throw this in, Not all the best teams made those trades.  Some took over teams in bad positions and have created a team that fits their needs.


The key (that I think some teams are missing) is a game plan and finding the players that match that game plan. 

[Scribbles]

I'm not going to get into any arguments over it because I think the entire point of this thing was to kill time and have fun... but I am confident that, as of now, my team is full of better players, from both a talent and a fit perspectives, around LeBron James than either the 2008 or 2007 Cavaliers playoff teams.  He took one of those to the NBA Finals and the other to the brink of all brinks against the eventual World Champs.  I don't think my team is necessarily the best, and for where I drafted I had no belief that I would build the top team (the 1st pick (or 2nd) is brutal in these types of formats.... getting the 59th best player as our #2 option is tough), but the players I put around LeBron compared to those around him in real life tells me a lot about how competitive my team would be.

But, as I mentioned a few days ago, the collective record if all GMs were polled on their team would be like a 65% winning percentage instead of the required 50% if all 2,460 games were to be played... so I'm sure 2/3 of the league thinks their team is a contender as well.

Looking forward to the rest of the rounds.

I'm not sure the argument that Lebron made the Finals with lesser talent in real life holds up, though.  I think the talent you'd be playing against in our mock league is much stronger than Lebron had to face in the East (due to elite talent being consolidated on a few squads in our draft, and you playing in a stacked conference).

I anticipated this response from someone, but don't fully agree.  It's still the same number of teams, the same players, probably about the same percentage of win now vs. win later... sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters... but I don't know if I rate any of these fake teams above the 2007-2008 Celtics, and LeBron was a whisker from knocking them off.

I do agree about Amir Johnson though... a lot of my team's fortunes lie in his development this year.  I hope he gets PT.

I can't see Amir Johnson getting playing time in real life if they signed Brown to a contract offer.  Wallace, Brown, McDyess, Maxiell, Samb, and Plaisted are all better or just as good as Amir.  I can't see him getting much playing time unless theres a trade or injury. 

You think Plaisted is better than Amir?  I don't think I'd go that far.

I don't think Plaisted is better, but currently just as good.  Amire has more potential obviously as he's still early 20's but as of now its a close call.  Even if he's better than Plaisted, still isn't going to beat out Wallace, Brown, McDyess, or Maxiell for playing time. 

[Roy Hobbs]

The key (that I think some teams are missing) is a game plan and finding the players that match that game plan. 

Yep, I agree.  I think the best teams all had a pretty good idea on how they were going to build their team ahead of time, and executed that plan.  Some teams went young, some went "win now", some built around a superstar, others went the composite approach.  None is necessarily the "right" way; all approaches can yield a good team if they're implemented well.  The problem is when a team just decides to draft the biggest "name", or even just the best talent, without regard to team-building.

[Big Ticket]

sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters

To respond to this particular criticism (since I've seen it repeated a couple of times):  the teams that have stacked rosters, or made several trades, or that made pre-draft trades didn't do anything "unfair".  They were on the same playing field as everyone else.  If some teams put themselves in a better draft position, I would tend to give them credit for it, rather than to suggest that they did something improper.

I'll use LarBrd33 as an example.  He PM'd literally ever manager in the league, several times.  He made a number of good deals for his team, mostly because he wouldn't settle for decent or average value.  He held out until he clearly won each trade he made.  This wasn't anything unfair, but rather was good negotiating on his part.  Now, we have a Commissioner in place to make sure that some trades don't get too crazy, but overall, this game rewards those who are the most active and the most talented at negotiating.

I didn't say the act was unfair, just meant for those that were dedicated to put in the time, they now have an unfair amount of talent on their roster for purposes of comparing them to other teams.  That's all. 

[Roy Hobbs]

sure, there are a couple teams like your own that took advantage of the pre-draft trades to create unfair talent-stacked rosters

To respond to this particular criticism (since I've seen it repeated a couple of times):  the teams that have stacked rosters, or made several trades, or that made pre-draft trades didn't do anything "unfair".  They were on the same playing field as everyone else.  If some teams put themselves in a better draft position, I would tend to give them credit for it, rather than to suggest that they did something improper.

I'll use LarBrd33 as an example.  He PM'd literally ever manager in the league, several times.  He made a number of good deals for his team, mostly because he wouldn't settle for decent or average value.  He held out until he clearly won each trade he made.  This wasn't anything unfair, but rather was good negotiating on his part.  Now, we have a Commissioner in place to make sure that some trades don't get too crazy, but overall, this game rewards those who are the most active and the most talented at negotiating.

I didn't say the act was unfair, just meant for those that were dedicated to put in the time, they now have an unfair amount of talent on their roster for purposes of comparing them to other teams.  That's all. 

If by "unfair" you mean that it doesn't make much sense to compare Portland's or New Jersey's roster to a team that drafted in its assigned 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th round slots, I can buy that.  People who didn't follow the draft closely shouldn't think that it was possible (without trading) for every team to pick up two or three elite talents. 

However, I do want to emphasize (even if it wasn't your point) that a lot of effort goes into making trades.  For every trade that goes through, there are probably 15 that go nowhere.  The key is to know what good value is, and not make a trade until you're offered it.