O'Bryant hate

[albert]

I watched a lot of Warriors games in the past years (I used to write a blog on European players in the NBA and they had a few of them). But it doesn't really matter: POB is the kind of player you just have to watch for 15 minutes to make a proper assessment of his current strengths and weaknesses.

The optimistic in me wants to say that you don't know what you're talking about. While in actuality you seem much more qualified to talk about POB than I do (and I don't know what I'm talking about). You are probably right but I hope you are wrong.

Some people have brought up the Nellie-ball vs. TT/Doc system comparison as an excuse for O'Bryant's lack of performance. I think we can all agree that it's not entirely the system's fault, nor is it entirely the player's fault - it's a combination of both. But a third and overlooked factor is team chemistry. If you take a look at O'Bryant's NBA.com player page you'll see that he wasn't exactly treated like one of the guys: http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/nbatv/jrich_popcorn_hazing_30sec.asx. Instead, like someone pointed out earlier, he was hazed (i.e., treated as an object of scorn) and hated the fact that he was being hazed (even though the video tries to play it up like it's all fun and games). His attitude problem - and thereby his work ethic - will be addressed when he sees what a team is really about after a few weeks of ubuntu. No question about it.

I'd readjust his ceiling to being a defensive Chris Kaman.

[cordobes]

Why would anyone believe Brown is better anyway?  I mean he's only been a complete bust every where's he's gone.

I don't think it's a matter of faith, just of watching both of them playing, or analyzing their production.

Just for clarification purposes anyone purporting to know how good Patrick O'Bryant is or will be with C's is well let's say talking out of their rear ends.  Also you might want to research all these great prognosticators views on the C's prior to the last season and how most of the same people didn't believe that Garnett made Boston the favorites to win it all.  And you see how that turned out.  So I wouldn't get too bent out of shape concerning the opinion of posters concerning POB.  Of course if they have a coach before there name well then you must take their opinion as gospel.

No need to use ad hominem arguments, I think; even though I've always seen the Celtics as favorites to win it all, they always sound kind of uncivil, as you certainly understand. I think the problem here is being able to differentiate an "assessment" from a "prognostic". Perhaps you're mixing up both, no? Or do you believe that we shouldn't deliver opinions on NBA players at all?

Just out of curiosity, if the Celtics had signed Brown instead of POB, who would you consider to be the better player?

[gar]

Good points all. I guess what I was responding to was the "not half the player a healthy Pollard was". To me, that is a pretty harsh evaluation. No he does not have Pollard's work ethic or family and collegiate background; but he is still young. When Bradley made it to the sweet sixteen, I think we were all cheering for them and he was a big reason why. This team is built around people that have been either under appreciated or undervalued. KG and cRay are just what he needs. He played with fire at Bradley. He can do it again.

Pollard's carreer #s: 4.6 rbs / 4.4 pts / 2.3 pfs / 16.6 min

[cordobes]

Good points all. I guess what I was responding to was the "not half the player a healthy Pollard was". To me, that is a pretty harsh evaluation. No he does not have Pollard's work ethic or family and collegiate background; but he is still young. When Bradley made it to the sweet sixteen, I think we were all cheering for them and he was a big reason why. This team is built around people that have been either under appreciated or undervalued. KG and cRay are just what he needs. He played with fire at Bradley. He can do it again.

Pollard's carreer #s: 4.6 rbs / 4.4 pts / 2.3 pfs / 16.6 min

Those are not the numbers of a healthy Pollard and stats don't translate all his contributions. He was a [dang] good backup center back in Sacramento, for example. Solid defense, safe play, the ability to do the little things. Four years of good coaching in college work wonders. The same growing and process POB is trying to pursuit now, Pollard had in a more proper environment before joining the NBA. Fundamentally sound big men generally have long NBA careers, even if they are injury prone. Not even Nellie would sign DJ Mbenga, to whom he gave almost the double of the minutes POB got, having half of that player in his team.

[gar]

Good points all. I guess what I was responding to was the "not half the player a healthy Pollard was". To me, that is a pretty harsh evaluation. No he does not have Pollard's work ethic or family and collegiate background; but he is still young. When Bradley made it to the sweet sixteen, I think we were all cheering for them and he was a big reason why. This team is built around people that have been either under appreciated or undervalued. KG and cRay are just what he needs. He played with fire at Bradley. He can do it again.

Pollard's carreer #s: 4.6 rbs / 4.4 pts / 2.3 pfs / 16.6 min

Those are not the numbers of a healthy Pollard and stats don't translate all his contributions. He was a [dang] good backup center back in Sacramento, for example. Solid defense, safe play, the ability to do the little things. Four years of good coaching in college work wonders. The same growing and process POB is trying to pursuit now, Pollard had in a more proper environment before joining the NBA. Fundamentally sound big men generally have long NBA careers, even if they are injury prone. Not even Nellie would sign DJ Mbenga, to whom he gave almost the double of the minutes POB got, having half of that player in his team.

Again good points (I can see I am not winning any TP on this one); but Pollard was an entirely different kind of player and to limit POB's potential to the Pollard model of blue collar player is also unfair. The comments above are a solid indication of what is wrong with so many players coming into the NBA early these days. Kwame Brown's of the world included. This is in part POD's fault; but not an entirely unique situation and one that the C's are well equipped to address. POB is lucky to have this kind of chance. Let's hope he makes the most of it.

[Birdbrain]

Let's just say I didn't want Kwame Brown anywhere near this team and I'm willing to take a wait and see and approach with POB.  And I'll disregard the opinion of anyone that won't.

And if you think he can't at worst be as good as Pollard well then there is no hope.

[cordobes]

And if you think he can't at worst be as good as Pollard well then there is no hope.

You should try to stop using straw man arguments and misrepresenting other people positions.

Again good points (I can see I am not winning any TP on this one); but Pollard was an entirely different kind of player and to limit POB's potential to the Pollard model of blue collar player is also unfair. The comments above are a solid indication of what is wrong with so many players coming into the NBA early these days. Kwame Brown's of the world included. This is in part POD's fault; but not an entirely unique situation and one that the C's are well equipped to address. POB is lucky to have this kind of chance. Let's hope he makes the most of it.

Fair enough. Can't disagree with that. TP for a good discussion.

[zerophase]

..will be recieving a championship ring this comming fall.

[gar]

Pollard's career is far from over. Mr T has nothing on him.
I hope Hollywood is ready.

[gar]

Thanks

Tp's all around.

[cordobes]

Work ethic is exactly the concern with this guy, because he had none in college and it translated to games where he sleepwalked through at that level - the Missouri Valley Conference, a mid-major - as well.

It is daunting when a work ethic problem translates from college - where this guy was dominated by ordinary players - into the pro game.

Bottom line: He was never a lottery pick in the first place.

I surely hope his problem is work-ethic and/or lack of good coaching. Otherwise, he's just not talented enough to make it.

He's nowhere near a "defensive presence", unless shot-blocking from the weakside is relevant. Quite the opposite, every time I saw him on the floor he was a defensive liability: his footwork in the post is atrocious, he seemed clueless on how to gain position, he lacks court-awareness, strength and agressiveness. And this is not hating, by any means. Just my opinion on his current game.

A lot of people on this board seem like they know a lot about POB. I am curious how much they have actually watched him, because i haven't watched him much and I watch a decent amount of basketball.

I watched a lot of Warriors games in the past years (I used to write a blog on European players in the NBA and they had a few of them). But it doesn't really matter: POB is the kind of player you just have to watch for 15 minutes to make a proper assessment of his current strengths and weaknesses.

The optimistic in me wants to say that you don't know what you're talking about. While in actuality you seem much more qualified to talk about POB than I do (and I don't know what I'm talking about). You are probably right but I hope you are wrong.

The optimistic in you can concede that I know what I'm talking about. Players improve and develop. I'm not saying he won't. But, right now, there's a reason why he's a 7-footer lotto pick playing in a very small 1-year guaranteed contract: he's not that good. But there's no problem in believing he's going to be good in the near future. It's not impossible and, in fact, we wouldn't be fans believing otherwise.

Seeing that this is likely true, why did we sign him and not another Big Man for depth? Is it because he is cheap? Is it because he will be able to play more minutes than Scot Pollard and be more effective?

I dont dispute your word Cordobes, I just wonder what he gives us and why we signed him if he is such a low return investment. Is it just because he is a reasonably athletic 7 footer that Danny wants to give Clifford Ray a shot at developing?

Yeps, I see him basically as a 4th draft pick. Not even sure if he's better than Erden. I think this was pretty much consensual over these boards when he signed for the Celtics. Only in this thread people started talking about him like he was as good as, say, Kwame Brown and with more upside. He's not. CoachBo and others were right to reset the expectations to their proper level. If he ends this next season giving us as much as Kwame will give to the Pistons, it would be an astounding accomplishment. And he can surely contribute as least as much as an injury-plagued Pollard, but of course he's not half the player a healthy Pollard is.

I want to correct my stance: so far he isn't a tenth part of the player a healthy Pollard (pardon the oxymoron) is. He's not as good as Brown or Erden though. Hopefully he'll start improving really quickly.

[dark_lord]

another thread resurrected?  this one from july....you got to be kidding me.