O'Bryant hate

[BudweiserCeltic]

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

This is why I hated that article so much, it put ZERO context on what ocurred that day. For starters, playing defense for 15 minutes is not the same as playing 15 minutes of basketball. Defense takes more energy. Secondly, he's a big man (Perk would probably be just as tired). Third, we were told that he didn't rest much the night before because of some problems with his flight or something (and this was a morning/early afternoon practice). Fourth, we don't know how much practice he had done before the 15 minute drill. Fifth, we don't know how long he has been off the court since the season had ended some months earlier.

We can go on and on. There's no context on what ocurred, and to simply assume that he's as out of shape as he's being made out to be is simply judging the guy prematurely. Thing is we have a ton of time before the season starts, and this guy is in shape... he's simply lacking game-shape if anything, and if that's the case, it's easy to work on it. It's not like he's fat or anything.

[Chris]

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

This is why I hated that article so much, it put ZERO context on what ocurred that day. For starters, playing defense for 15 minutes is not the same as playing 15 minutes of basketball. Defense takes more energy. Secondly, he's a big man (Perk would probably be just as tired). Third, we were told that he didn't rest much the night before because of some problems with his flight or something (and this was a morning/early afternoon practice). Fourth, we don't know how much practice he had done before the 15 minute drill. Fifth, we don't know how long he has been off the court since the season had ended some months earlier.

We can go on and on. There's no context on what ocurred, and to simply assume that he's as out of shape as he's being made out to be is simply judging the guy prematurely. Thing is we have a ton of time before the season starts, and this guy is in shape... he's simply lacking game-shape if anything, and if that's the case, it's easy to work on it. It's not like he's fat or anything.

My problem is that I simply don't think it matters.  What matters to me is whether he has the skills to be a legit rotation player in the NBA, and whether he is going to put the work in this summer to make it happen sooner rather than later.

I never (and I mean never) trust a report from some beat writer (and even less so from a columnist) about a workout, or even the scouting report from a game, on a certain player.  There is a reason these guys are journalists and not NBA execs.

[celt4ever]

i hate him, i hate hi, i hate him but i known he's gonna play fine

[zerophase]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

I disagree.  Maybe to keep your basketball skills sharp you need regular playing time.  But conditioning?  If you get winded easily, that has absolutely nothing to do with you not playing under game conditions.  Rather, it's a reflection that you're not working out like you're supposed to.

ehh, the players always say, nothing simulates a real nba game, even with all the practices and workouts you do. as an athlete myself i fully understand what they mean. a player can be in shape but it'll take regular appearances and playing time before they get into "game shape."

I'll confirm this opinion also in my experience. Especially at these guys size, they never push themselves harder than in actual prolonged competition, that's when they find they themselves do the amazing in combination with endurance and one day recoverys.

And this too is where it also takes being given the PT to develop which is essential for growth, that O'B hasn't really been given. I know, it's a double edged thing, but at least on this team with the cusion of surrounding tallent and cushion of R.S. games expected, someone like himself has a real possibility to shine given the backup C. PT, at least thru midseason, IMV...

I like the upside and the possibilitys

Perk improved his conditioning over the summer and during practice.  Big Al improved it over the summer.  I'm sure many, many other players have, as well.

Everybody -- including O'Bryant -- seems to admit that he didn't work hard enough his first two seasons.  Yet, it is only Celtics fans who have decided to blame Nelson for that.

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

Hopefully, O'Bryant improves in this area.  Being around our big men, and especially Clifford Ray, will help.  Ultimately, though, it rests with him as to whether he's willing to work harder than he has in the past.

well its obvious that we were refering to 2 different types of conditioning. once again, like i said, you can be in shape for practice but not for a game. i was refering to him being in game shape when you mentioned being winded easily.

its also hard to stay motivated when you know you won't get playing time.

[Roy Hobbs]

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

This is why I hated that article so much, it put ZERO context on what ocurred that day. For starters, playing defense for 15 minutes is not the same as playing 15 minutes of basketball. Defense takes more energy. Secondly, he's a big man (Perk would probably be just as tired). Third, we were told that he didn't rest much the night before because of some problems with his flight or something (and this was a morning/early afternoon practice). Fourth, we don't know how much practice he had done before the 15 minute drill. Fifth, we don't know how long he has been off the court since the season had ended some months earlier.

We can go on and on. There's no context on what ocurred, and to simply assume that he's as out of shape as he's being made out to be is simply judging the guy prematurely. Thing is we have a ton of time before the season starts, and this guy is in shape... he's simply lacking game-shape if anything, and if that's the case, it's easy to work on it. It's not like he's fat or anything.

My problem is that I simply don't think it matters.  What matters to me is whether he has the skills to be a legit rotation player in the NBA, and whether he is going to put the work in this summer to make it happen sooner rather than later.

I never (and I mean never) trust a report from some beat writer (and even less so from a columnist) about a workout, or even the scouting report from a game, on a certain player.  There is a reason these guys are journalists and not NBA execs.

Sure, I agree; I don't tend to trust reporters, either.  However, when the reporter cites a conditioning issue, and then the guy's former coach, GM, and Danny Ainge all say this guy has had a questionable work ethic, I think there's something to it.

If the kid is willing to put the work in to reach his potential, beautiful; he certainly looks like he has the talent to become a backup center at some point.  However, that work ethic -- which directly relates to his conditioning -- is a major, major question mark.

My big issue is that so many are blaming Don Nelson, when they should be blaming Patrick O'Bryant.  That doesn't mean the guy can't reform, but up until this point in his career, he's been a failure because he hasn't worked to be better.

[BballTim]

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

This is why I hated that article so much, it put ZERO context on what ocurred that day. For starters, playing defense for 15 minutes is not the same as playing 15 minutes of basketball. Defense takes more energy. Secondly, he's a big man (Perk would probably be just as tired). Third, we were told that he didn't rest much the night before because of some problems with his flight or something (and this was a morning/early afternoon practice). Fourth, we don't know how much practice he had done before the 15 minute drill. Fifth, we don't know how long he has been off the court since the season had ended some months earlier.

We can go on and on. There's no context on what ocurred, and to simply assume that he's as out of shape as he's being made out to be is simply judging the guy prematurely. Thing is we have a ton of time before the season starts, and this guy is in shape... he's simply lacking game-shape if anything, and if that's the case, it's easy to work on it. It's not like he's fat or anything.

My problem is that I simply don't think it matters.  What matters to me is whether he has the skills to be a legit rotation player in the NBA, and whether he is going to put the work in this summer to make it happen sooner rather than later.

I never (and I mean never) trust a report from some beat writer (and even less so from a columnist) about a workout, or even the scouting report from a game, on a certain player.  There is a reason these guys are journalists and not NBA execs.

Sure, I agree; I don't tend to trust reporters, either.  However, when the reporter cites a conditioning issue, and then the guy's former coach, GM, and Danny Ainge all say this guy has had a questionable work ethic, I think there's something to it.

If the kid is willing to put the work in to reach his potential, beautiful; he certainly looks like he has the talent to become a backup center at some point.  However, that work ethic -- which directly relates to his conditioning -- is a major, major question mark.

My big issue is that so many are blaming Don Nelson, when they should be blaming Patrick O'Bryant.  That doesn't mean the guy can't reform, but up until this point in his career, he's been a failure because he hasn't worked to be better.

  Even if you don't blame Nelson, POB's only failed in one situation as opposed to (not to single him out) Gerald Green, who's on team #4. Plus he's removed from the "high draft pick" pressure.

[billysan]

I have to wonder if Danny would go into camp with only one real back up center (besides KG) and sign him to a multi year deal to boot. There is definitely something here we are all missing badly. I just dont believe Danny would go into the season with a guy that is just 'horrible' and has such a lack of perceived upside based on his past. He only gave Pollard one year, and at less money than this kid. Does that make sense to anyone?

I truly believe Danny and Doc/coaching staff believe this guy can contribute more than previously advertised. The only other explanation is that they are planning to play KG at center a lot more which is also very believable IMO.

I will continue to think that Leon Powe and Glen Davis will be the first bigs off the bench (as PF's)until this kid cracks the rotation. I just think that Danny believes he will crack it in the near future.

[Chris]

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

This is why I hated that article so much, it put ZERO context on what ocurred that day. For starters, playing defense for 15 minutes is not the same as playing 15 minutes of basketball. Defense takes more energy. Secondly, he's a big man (Perk would probably be just as tired). Third, we were told that he didn't rest much the night before because of some problems with his flight or something (and this was a morning/early afternoon practice). Fourth, we don't know how much practice he had done before the 15 minute drill. Fifth, we don't know how long he has been off the court since the season had ended some months earlier.

We can go on and on. There's no context on what ocurred, and to simply assume that he's as out of shape as he's being made out to be is simply judging the guy prematurely. Thing is we have a ton of time before the season starts, and this guy is in shape... he's simply lacking game-shape if anything, and if that's the case, it's easy to work on it. It's not like he's fat or anything.

My problem is that I simply don't think it matters.  What matters to me is whether he has the skills to be a legit rotation player in the NBA, and whether he is going to put the work in this summer to make it happen sooner rather than later.

I never (and I mean never) trust a report from some beat writer (and even less so from a columnist) about a workout, or even the scouting report from a game, on a certain player.  There is a reason these guys are journalists and not NBA execs.

Sure, I agree; I don't tend to trust reporters, either.  However, when the reporter cites a conditioning issue, and then the guy's former coach, GM, and Danny Ainge all say this guy has had a questionable work ethic, I think there's something to it.

If the kid is willing to put the work in to reach his potential, beautiful; he certainly looks like he has the talent to become a backup center at some point.  However, that work ethic -- which directly relates to his conditioning -- is a major, major question mark.

My big issue is that so many are blaming Don Nelson, when they should be blaming Patrick O'Bryant.  That doesn't mean the guy can't reform, but up until this point in his career, he's been a failure because he hasn't worked to be better.

Absolutely.  This is all on O'Bryant.  I agree that Nelson's system did not put him in a position to succeed...but I never agree with letting the player off the hook based on a coach.

[guava_wrench]

so basically, after back and forth argument, we've come to the conclusion that we honestly have no idea how he'll pan out until he starts to play in green.

That tends to be my position on most moves. Except for Isiah's moves. Those are doomed from the moment he picks up the phone.

[fan33]

Agreed, not to "blame" but give reason as to why Nelson was so derogatory towards O'B... Remember too, Nelson just took over the reigns, and who does a coach single out to affirm his status and control over all the other players is the scapegoat rookie, for good reason to motivate his squad and impose his toughness; Could be a very understandable reason beyond the fact he wanted to do it his way and style of play both of which weren't in the 20y.o. strenths or abilitys to please the coaches design.

All I'm saying is perhaps he was thrown under the bus for reasons which could be understandable, ergo with that experience/maturity and a better team fit and role; I am for one, able to see the young man doing better here and now than there and then under Nellie, is all...

[gar]

POB D league Stats
13.2 pts
9.7 rbs
3  blks
1.6 asts

Gabe Pruitt's
18.6 pts
2.8 rbs
2.2 stls
3.9 asts

Somehow POB is a failure and Gabe is the golden boy. I don't see it. Not Kareem like numbers; but not to shabby either. Throw in 80% FT shooting and  53% Fg. I would have prefered to see him get to the line more; but Perk will toughen him up.

[Roy Hobbs]

Somehow POB is a failure and Gabe is the golden boy.

Who is calling Pruitt "the golden boy"? 

[CoachBo]

Work ethic is exactly the concern with this guy, because he had none in college and it translated to games where he sleepwalked through at that level - the Missouri Valley Conference, a mid-major - as well.

It is daunting when a work ethic problem translates from college - where this guy was dominated by ordinary players - into the pro game.

Bottom line: He was never a lottery pick in the first place.

[Evantime34]

Somehow POB is a failure and Gabe is the golden boy.

Who is calling Pruitt "the golden boy"? 

Gabe Pruitt is the golden boy.

[cordobes]

Work ethic is exactly the concern with this guy, because he had none in college and it translated to games where he sleepwalked through at that level - the Missouri Valley Conference, a mid-major - as well.

It is daunting when a work ethic problem translates from college - where this guy was dominated by ordinary players - into the pro game.

Bottom line: He was never a lottery pick in the first place.

I surely hope his problem is work-ethic and/or lack of good coaching. Otherwise, he's just not talented enough to make it.

He's nowhere near a "defensive presence", unless shot-blocking from the weakside is relevant. Quite the opposite, every time I saw him on the floor he was a defensive liability: his footwork in the post is atrocious, he seemed clueless on how to gain position, he lacks court-awareness, strength and agressiveness. And this is not hating, by any means. Just my opinion on his current game.