Tony came back, does that affect Giddens?

[BillfromBoston]

However, the team seems to project him at SF, so I don't see how the Allen signing affects him that much.

Where did you read that? 

Giddens is 6'5".  Throwing him in there at small forward, especially as a rookie, would kill the team.  From what I've read, he's projected as a shooting guard who can play a bit of point guard if necessary.  Sure, he's a good rebounding guard, but I don't think the team would be dumb enough to try to play him at SF.

...don't know where you got that info Roy, but Giddens is a 2/3 all the way-no PG in him, but has a good passing eye-like Pierce or Ray...

Giddens may be 6'5, but he is easily sporting a standing reach akin to Pierce and has physical strength...Tony Allen has also played quite a bit of SF in his day...and the team is looking for about 15-18mpg between Allen/Giddens/Walker at the 3 if the roster  remains as-is...this is completely fine IMO..

The team has two experienced wings to man the 3 and 2 rookies who will have a chance to compete for PT...the team got to keep its depth while not committing for more than 2 years, which seems to be their objective all along...

Now, the team could easily add another vet wing for the minimum-such as Mike Finley-but I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge wants to see some chance at minutes from the younger players...Tony Allen is going into his 5th year and can certainly play the role of defensive stopper against most every assignment he's given, 3-1...the offense out of both he and House has high upside, but steady downside-at least 15 points i'd say...the bulk of the bench scoring probably will come from Powe, who showed in the 2nd half of last year that he could handle that responsibility.

If the team signs no one else right now, it'll be bench-by-committee again, with the possibility that Powe/TA/House become a super-explosive trio capable of 25 points themsleves...POB, Davis, Walker, Giddens and Pruitt will all have a chance to get minutes situationally and when need arises while the team still maintains a solid core...

...however, with 3 million left in MLE money, don't be suprised if the team continues to see if there is anything of impact left to accomplish on the market...but I think they're satisfied with the group in place now...

considering what is left out there, i certainly hope this is the plan.

i could look forward to seeing JR and Walker get PT (although still a worry losing Posey from Title standpoint) and i think the guys still out there would be wasting a roster spot at this point.

i can get behind the injection of high-fliers into the rotation at least for the start of the season and then see what happens...

...the last statement made is the crux of it all...the team certainly appears to have more than enough to win another 55+ games in the regular season and will be able to make moves all the way until the trade deadline of next season...the idea that many of these perceived flaws in the current roster are glaring is mere speculation...the team could easily sign another FA if it so desires, but it is under no pressure to make a move immediately...

...whoever said the playoffs and the regular season are different was right...but this team is months and months away from the playoffs and has time enough to evaluate itself and adjust accordingly...

[cordobes]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

I'm sorry, but this is insane. Danny didn't accomplish his goals - he didn't re-sign Posey, for example. House is also a second option, he tried to sign Lue.

I think Ainge mismanaged the Posey situation - he thought he would land him with a shorter contract. He called the bluff and lost. This is more a panic move: the market suddenly became so thin, that Allen and House were two of the best UFA available. And they already knew the team... But if Ainge's goal was to keep Tony Allen, he'd have offered him the QO. $200.000 more, but less a year.

[guava_wrench]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

I'm sorry, but this is insane. Danny didn't accomplish his goals - he didn't re-sign Posey, for example. House is also a second option, he tried to sign Lue.

I think Ainge mismanaged the Posey situation - he thought he would land him with a shorter contract. He called the bluff and lost. This is more a panic move: the market suddenly became so thin, that Allen and House were two of the best UFA available. And they already knew the team... But if Ainge's goal was to keep Tony Allen, he'd have offered him the QO. $200.000 more, but less a year.

Danny didn't bluff. He had no intention of giving Posey 4 years.

[winsomme]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

I'm sorry, but this is insane. Danny didn't accomplish his goals - he didn't re-sign Posey, for example. House is also a second option, he tried to sign Lue.

I think Ainge mismanaged the Posey situation - he thought he would land him with a shorter contract. He called the bluff and lost. This is more a panic move: the market suddenly became so thin, that Allen and House were two of the best UFA available. And they already knew the team... But if Ainge's goal was to keep Tony Allen, he'd have offered him the QO. $200.000 more, but less a year.

well i'm half and half on this with you cordobes.

i think in the draft Danny was very satisfied because he gave himself a little safety net.

i think the best case scenario from Danny's standpoint was getting Pose back, but for some reason i think he got a little too focused on what the team would be doing in 2010 and 2011....and that could end up being the miscalculation (as we might not be contenders at that point)

but we still have money to spend and owners clearly willing to spend it and we do have some interesting wing prospects to take a look at here in the meantime...

and don't count out PJ or someone very similar being available late next season if POB struggles in the backup C role..

[wdleehi]

Anyone else think Giddens could pass TA on the depth chart by the time the playoffs role around? 

[Brendan]

If you want to be realistic about where guys will play the depth chart as of now (assuming rookies are both signed) looks like:

Rondo / House / Pruitt
R. Allen / T. Allen / Giddens
Pierce / xxx / Walker
KG / Powe / Scal
Perk / BBD / O'B

Well I agree there is a whole at SF in the depth chart, Scal and T. Allen will likely split the minutes behind Pierce. Scal will get the call for certain bigger SFs, and TA will get the rest. Last year Ray Allen played 10% of the SF minutes, and he plays smaller than TA imo.

In terms of usage I'd expect the plan is: (ordered by minutes - just rounded to nearest 5):

starters: Pierce (35), Rondo (35), Ray (35), KG (30), Perk (30) - 5 roster spots / 165 minutes
bench: Powe (25), House (20), BBD (10), Tony (10), Scal (10), Pruitt (5), O'B (3) - 7 roster spots / 75 minuts
DNP: Giddens, Walker - 2 roster spots / 0 minutes


That's 14 roster spots and 248 minutes. Obviously things will fluctuate, but its probably a pretty good guess (and I wouldn't mind seeing more of Ray Allen's minutes cut back and going to House and/or Tony - since he seemed to get broken down for that one stretch in the playoffs.) If PErk can't make 30 minutes a game, then BBD gets more run.

[Chris]

...whoever said the playoffs and the regular season are different was right...but this team is months and months away from the playoffs and has time enough to evaluate itself and adjust accordingly...

This is the key to me.  I think the chances of the team going into the season with this roster are high...but them going into the playoffs with it are low.  Not only does signing Allen, rather than one of the other marginal wings leave them with half of the MLE to play with, and outbit other teams for bought out veterans.  He also gives them another contract expiring before 2010 to play with in trades, if they need to at the trading deadline.

Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine might not be a valuable asset right now, but come January, a team that is out of the race, and looking to move a player, that combination, with maybe a young guy, and cash (to buy out Scal) could get a nice contributor in return.

Danny may not have helped the team on the court all that much with this move (although the potential is there), but he just gave them a lot more flexibility.

[BballTim]

I'm sorry, but this is insane. Danny didn't accomplish his goals - he didn't re-sign Posey, for example. House is also a second option, he tried to sign Lue.

  This is nonsense. Ainge discussed signing Lue for the minimum. He also discussed signing House for a 1 year deal. Trying to characterize what happened as Ainge wanting Lue and offering a contract with House when he was unable to sign him is ridiculous.

I think Ainge mismanaged the Posey situation - he thought he would land him with a shorter contract. He called the bluff and lost. This is more a panic move: the market suddenly became so thin, that Allen and House were two of the best UFA available. And they already knew the team... But if Ainge's goal was to keep Tony Allen, he'd have offered him the QO. $200.000 more, but less a year.

  Ainge didn't mismanage the Posey situation at all. He knew that he could get Posey if he offered him a 4 year MLE contract but he didn't think that Posey was worth the money. He had no intention of giving Posey the deal that he was looking for. And how did the market suddenly become so thin? Haven't you been arguing since before the first FA was signed that any sf on the market (aside from possibly Maggette) was a big downgrade from Posey and a bad fit for our team?

[fan33]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

I'm sorry, but this is insane. Danny didn't accomplish his goals - he didn't re-sign Posey, for example. House is also a second option, he tried to sign Lue.

I think Ainge mismanaged the Posey situation - he thought he would land him with a shorter contract. He called the bluff and lost. This is more a panic move: the market suddenly became so thin, that Allen and House were two of the best UFA available. And they already knew the team... But if Ainge's goal was to keep Tony Allen, he'd have offered him the QO. $200.000 more, but less a year.

Your opinion is that D.A. didn't accomplish his goal. Mine, is that he has multifacted goals, and resigning Posey(whos game I loved last year), at ANY cost was not one of Dannys goals, when there were very sound reasons for not doing so at the terms Posey signed for, IE "any cost", while there were still other goals both for this year and the near future being addressed. I like the flexability now built into this teams signings, as well as the upside for the role bench players gaining minutes in the R.S. and playing against our first team in practices this summer.

T.A. should be able to show J.R. the speed he will be facing at that position as well as T.A.s superior defensive pressure for J.R. to accomedate his game to the NBA level of competion as a sort of mentor, IMO...

I have hopes for Tony to have a good year with the opportunity, yet wouldn't be suprised otherwise, at least we now have J.R. in development as T.A.s replacement...

[timepiece33]

If you want to be realistic about where guys will play the depth chart as of now (assuming rookies are both signed) looks like:

Rondo / House / Pruitt
R. Allen / T. Allen / Giddens
Pierce / xxx / Walker
KG / Powe / Scal
Perk / BBD / O'B

I could see us either signing Maurice Evans

OR

Trading Giddens along with Scalabrine to get Ariza (maybe as part of the Sacramento Artest deal.  Sacramento takes on one year of Scalabrine's salary to get an extra first round pick in Giddens). 

[CT34]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

Danny Ainge has one trade in this pocket.  I'm not saying he talking with one team.  All I'm saying if it's up to Danny Ainge he will make one trade this off-season.  We just need to relax, last season at this time we didn't have James Posey or Eddie House on the team.

[kozlodoev]

If you want to be realistic about where guys will play the depth chart as of now (assuming rookies are both signed) looks like:

Rondo / House / Pruitt
R. Allen / T. Allen / Giddens
Pierce / xxx / Walker
KG / Powe / Scal
Perk / BBD / O'B

I could see us either signing Maurice Evans

OR

Trading Giddens along with Scalabrine to get Ariza (maybe as part of the Sacramento Artest deal.  Sacramento takes on one year of Scalabrine's salary to get an extra first round pick in Giddens). 

You really think we will help LA land Artest, because we can get Ariza in the process? This is, indeed, extremely humorous.

[crownsy]

Tony Allen signed a two year contract

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lets not be cute, a two year deal for a deveinsive specialist who shows flashes of agressivness at 2 milliona  year is fine. the "don't sign TA!" threads centered around when we thought he was getting a 3.8ish qualifing offer.

i have no problem with tony at 2 mill.

[crownsy]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

It is essentially the same roster as last year except no Posey/backup 3. I'm not worried about the PG situation with another year of experience, and I don't think we'll miss Pollard who never played anyway or Cassell who had more bad than good. Even if Pruitt is crap, I'm expecting that he can get the ball up against pressure when needed.

Of course, PJ was clutch in the playoffs, but as of now, we are relying on improvement from the 3 young bigs.

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell.  As bad as Cassell played at time last year, there were a) times he outplayed House because he can actually dribble the basketbal and b) the very fact that Doc kept playing Cassell even when he played poorly was a testament to his lack of faith in House's ability to run the point. 

On another note, I just don't get the Allen move.  Ainge already drafted two more swingmen who will sign contracts here.  Why waste a roster spot on a guy who is probably marginally better than them at best when this team could clearly use a vet big man and maybe even a real vet PG. 

oh, i get it. so now were going to act like sam and PJ could have played all 82 games to make the bench look worse.

check, gottcha. 

lets rephrase what he said then

for 85% of the season, this bench is virtualy unchanged outside posey. and if you don't think were planing to do the same thing we did last year with regardes to older players, your crazy.

here's hoping we get zoe around game 75 

[Jayhawk]

I don't think Giddens is ready to play minutes in the NBA. Sure he tore up mid level D-1 competition at UNM, but a lot of people do that. He is gifted but he needs time. Right now he is a below average spot up 3 point shooter that can rebound and finish a fast break. I laughed when someone said he can play a little point.