Tony came back, does that affect Giddens?

[guava_wrench]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

It is essentially the same roster as last year except no Posey/backup 3. I'm not worried about the PG situation with another year of experience, and I don't think we'll miss Pollard who never played anyway or Cassell who had more bad than good. Even if Pruitt is crap, I'm expecting that he can get the ball up against pressure when needed.

Of course, PJ was clutch in the playoffs, but as of now, we are relying on improvement from the 3 young bigs.

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics should sign Michael Finley to a 2 yr deal to fill out the bench. IMO.

[Jon]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

It is essentially the same roster as last year except no Posey/backup 3. I'm not worried about the PG situation with another year of experience, and I don't think we'll miss Pollard who never played anyway or Cassell who had more bad than good. Even if Pruitt is crap, I'm expecting that he can get the ball up against pressure when needed.

Of course, PJ was clutch in the playoffs, but as of now, we are relying on improvement from the 3 young bigs.

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell.  As bad as Cassell played at time last year, there were a) times he outplayed House because he can actually dribble the basketbal and b) the very fact that Doc kept playing Cassell even when he played poorly was a testament to his lack of faith in House's ability to run the point. 

On another note, I just don't get the Allen move.  Ainge already drafted two more swingmen who will sign contracts here.  Why waste a roster spot on a guy who is probably marginally better than them at best when this team could clearly use a vet big man and maybe even a real vet PG. 

[guava_wrench]

However, the team seems to project him at SF, so I don't see how the Allen signing affects him that much.

He's got a good reach, and averaged 9 boards a game in college. I think he could work at SF.

Perkins / x / O'Bryant
Garnett / Powe / Davis
Pierce / Giddens / Walker
RAllen / TAllen / Pruitt
Rondo / House / x

The X should probably be at SF, not PG, esp since they have wanted Pruitt at PG from day one.

If you put an X before OBryant, than Giddens and Walker definitely should have an X before them, esp since Giddens is a 2, not a 3.

[indeedproceed]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

It is essentially the same roster as last year except no Posey/backup 3. I'm not worried about the PG situation with another year of experience, and I don't think we'll miss Pollard who never played anyway or Cassell who had more bad than good. Even if Pruitt is crap, I'm expecting that he can get the ball up against pressure when needed.

Of course, PJ was clutch in the playoffs, but as of now, we are relying on improvement from the 3 young bigs.

I agree with this to a point.

Pierce/Giddens is terrible. I don't agree he can play the 3. His reach isn't spectaular, and he is only 6'5. Getting boards from the 2 (where he played in college) would be a great bonus, like Rondo at the point. But having him bang with prince or Caron Butler? The kid is going to be killed. We need a Trevor Ariza, or Travis Outlaw, not another 2. We also need another big with size. PJ Brown would be good...again.

I think the Tony signing made the gidden's pick kind of redundant.

[Bankshot]

Celtics should sign Michael Finley to a 2 yr deal to fill out the bench. IMO.

Finley was done last year. I'm sure he's even more done this year.  No thanks.

[Ersatz]

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell. 

What was our record before Brown and Cassell showed up? Like the third best in NBA history or something. I just don't see the reason for the panic. Obviously, losing Posey hurts, but I think keeping TA and House makes a ton of sense. For one, they were here last year, so there's continuity. TA is going to be better this year, and even though he's dangerous handling the ball, he's going to be more athletic this year and give us the slasher we miss when Pierce is on the bench. Plus, he's good defense coming in to guard the wings. The competition with Giddens and Walker is going to make him better.

House's ballhandling is not great either, but that will only matter in the playoffs, if then. If Detroit or whoever wants to press him, then Rondo plays 45 minutes or Ray or Pierce handle the ball. House's offense is just what we need off the bench and is much better than Posey's.

I like these moves. And then by Christmas time when Walker is playing 18 quality minutes a game backing up Pierce, things are going to be even more wonderful. 

[Chris]

It's a good question.  I have no idea what Danny is thinking.  Backup SG seemed to be one of the positions where we'd found a passable replacement.  It certainly makes me curious about what happens with our rookies.

As of right now, we have absolutely terrible roster construction.  I mean, just really, really bad.  We have five players who are probably best suited to play shooting guard (Ray, Tony, Giddens, Pruitt, and House), only one "true" point guard, one established center, one power forward with legit size, and one experienced small forward.  Ugh.

I agree to a point...although I don't think it is that terrible...or that different from many other contenders. 

I also think you are not giving Pruitt enough credit.  I think skillwise, he is the perfect backup PG for this team.  Yes, he is a better scorer than passer, but he appears to be a good enough passer, is an excellent ballhandler, and a very good shooter.  Basically, his skillset is Eddie House with better ball handling, and (IMO) a better feel for the PG position (in the little I have seen him, he seems to be better at actually getting the team into the offense, and moving the ball with purpose).  The only question with him is whether his skills translate to being an actual NBA player.

I actually think this team will be all set if they can find one more bigger wing (Darius Miles anyone?) to a vet minimum contract.  Then they can make a run at either Mourning or PJ midseason.  That will give them more time to try to free up a roster spot.

I actually think this is not a bad roster (no less risk, with higher reward than last year IMO).

Rondo, House, Pruitt
R. Allen, T. Allen, Giddens
Pierce, Miles, Walker, Scalabrine
Garnett, Powe, Baby
Perkins, O'Bryant

You also could be looking at more trade options at midseason.  Guys like Tony, Giddens, Walker (who I DON'T want to trade), Pruitt, Powe, or Davis, all could potentially gain some value (I think all of them have marginal value at best at the moment).  Plus, Scalabrine will be pretty palatable at that point, since he will be an expiring contract next season, and they could send $3 million, which would likely cover a buyout for him.

So yeah, this roster is not perfectly set up right now (but what roster is?), but Danny is giving himself some flexibility, with lots of options of guys who could really help them this year.

[indeedproceed]

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell. 

What was our record before Brown and Cassell showed up? Like the third best in NBA history or something. I just don't see the reason for the panic. Obviously, losing Posey hurts, but I think keeping TA and House makes a ton of sense. For one, they were here last year, so there's continuity. TA is going to be better this year, and even though he's dangerous handling the ball, he's going to be more athletic this year and give us the slasher we miss when Pierce is on the bench. Plus, he's good defense coming in to guard the wings. The competition with Giddens and Walker is going to make him better.

House's ballhandling is not great either, but that will only matter in the playoffs, if then. If Detroit or whoever wants to press him, then Rondo plays 45 minutes or Ray or Pierce handle the ball. House's offense is just what we need off the bench and is much better than Posey's.

I like these moves. And then by Christmas time when Walker is playing 18 quality minutes a game backing up Pierce, things are going to be even more wonderful. 

Why would you think Tony Allen would be any better or more athletic? Even when Tony was "healthy" in the 06/07 season he couldn't guard the 3...now he's taken more than a year to recover from a debilitating knee injury, and he's supposed to be better? Giddens is known for his athleticism, doesn't have the knee injuries and is supposedly a better shooter..I like Tony Allen, but I don't understand the move.   

[BillfromBoston]

However, the team seems to project him at SF, so I don't see how the Allen signing affects him that much.

Where did you read that? 

Giddens is 6'5".  Throwing him in there at small forward, especially as a rookie, would kill the team.  From what I've read, he's projected as a shooting guard who can play a bit of point guard if necessary.  Sure, he's a good rebounding guard, but I don't think the team would be dumb enough to try to play him at SF.

...don't know where you got that info Roy, but Giddens is a 2/3 all the way-no PG in him, but has a good passing eye-like Pierce or Ray...

Giddens may be 6'5, but he is easily sporting a standing reach akin to Pierce and has physical strength...Tony Allen has also played quite a bit of SF in his day...and the team is looking for about 15-18mpg between Allen/Giddens/Walker at the 3 if the roster  remains as-is...this is completely fine IMO..

The team has two experienced wings to man the 3 and 2 rookies who will have a chance to compete for PT...the team got to keep its depth while not committing for more than 2 years, which seems to be their objective all along...

Now, the team could easily add another vet wing for the minimum-such as Mike Finley-but I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge wants to see some chance at minutes from the younger players...Tony Allen is going into his 5th year and can certainly play the role of defensive stopper against most every assignment he's given, 3-1...the offense out of both he and House has high upside, but steady downside-at least 15 points i'd say...the bulk of the bench scoring probably will come from Powe, who showed in the 2nd half of last year that he could handle that responsibility.

If the team signs no one else right now, it'll be bench-by-committee again, with the possibility that Powe/TA/House become a super-explosive trio capable of 25 points themsleves...POB, Davis, Walker, Giddens and Pruitt will all have a chance to get minutes situationally and when need arises while the team still maintains a solid core...

...however, with 3 million left in MLE money, don't be suprised if the team continues to see if there is anything of impact left to accomplish on the market...but I think they're satisfied with the group in place now...

[Jon]

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell. 

What was our record before Brown and Cassell showed up? Like the third best in NBA history or something. I just don't see the reason for the panic. Obviously, losing Posey hurts, but I think keeping TA and House makes a ton of sense. For one, they were here last year, so there's continuity. TA is going to be better this year, and even though he's dangerous handling the ball, he's going to be more athletic this year and give us the slasher we miss when Pierce is on the bench. Plus, he's good defense coming in to guard the wings. The competition with Giddens and Walker is going to make him better.

House's ballhandling is not great either, but that will only matter in the playoffs, if then. If Detroit or whoever wants to press him, then Rondo plays 45 minutes or Ray or Pierce handle the ball. House's offense is just what we need off the bench and is much better than Posey's.

I like these moves. And then by Christmas time when Walker is playing 18 quality minutes a game backing up Pierce, things are going to be even more wonderful. 

Why would you think Tony Allen would be any better or more athletic? Even when Tony was "healthy" in the 06/07 season he couldn't guard the 3...now he's taken more than a year to recover from a debilitating knee injury, and he's supposed to be better? Giddens is known for his athleticism, doesn't have the knee injuries and is supposedly a better shooter..I like Tony Allen, but I don't understand the move.   

To Ersatz, the regular season and the postseason are two wildly different animals.  Just ask teams like the Suns and Mavs about it.  Ask the Lakers too: they seemed to do fine playing no defense until they had to play a team who could.  Also ask Eddie House, who had some good games in the playoffs, but also had his lack of a handle exploited much more in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. 

To Indeed, I agree about Allen.  He seems entirely too repetitive.  It'd be one thing if we had 3 or 4 more roster spots available, but it's quite another now that we only have 1.  Furthermore, I'd extend your comments to include House.  It'd be one thing if he came back at a non-Bird rights contract; however, to bring him back at half the MLE seems pretty crazy to me. 

[BillfromBoston]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

[guava_wrench]

It's not the same construction as last year, as we have now lost our big swingman in Posey, our only legitimately sized backup big man in Brown, and our only real backup PG in Cassell. 

What was our record before Brown and Cassell showed up? Like the third best in NBA history or something. I just don't see the reason for the panic. Obviously, losing Posey hurts, but I think keeping TA and House makes a ton of sense. For one, they were here last year, so there's continuity. TA is going to be better this year, and even though he's dangerous handling the ball, he's going to be more athletic this year and give us the slasher we miss when Pierce is on the bench. Plus, he's good defense coming in to guard the wings. The competition with Giddens and Walker is going to make him better.

House's ballhandling is not great either, but that will only matter in the playoffs, if then. If Detroit or whoever wants to press him, then Rondo plays 45 minutes or Ray or Pierce handle the ball. House's offense is just what we need off the bench and is much better than Posey's.

I like these moves. And then by Christmas time when Walker is playing 18 quality minutes a game backing up Pierce, things are going to be even more wonderful. 

Why would you think Tony Allen would be any better or more athletic? Even when Tony was "healthy" in the 06/07 season he couldn't guard the 3...now he's taken more than a year to recover from a debilitating knee injury, and he's supposed to be better? Giddens is known for his athleticism, doesn't have the knee injuries and is supposedly a better shooter..I like Tony Allen, but I don't understand the move.   

I think you missed his point. He was talking about TA's increased athleticism on OFFENSE from last year. In 06/07, he had some great games due to his offense.

I agree that TA should play the 3 very sparingly -- against small ball benches only.

I don't understand why people are already penciling Giddens in as a rotation guy. He has proven nothing. Tony Allen isn't redundant. Giddens is, at least this year. Giddens is the guy who would be watching from the bench, not Tony.

[winsomme]

However, the team seems to project him at SF, so I don't see how the Allen signing affects him that much.

Where did you read that? 

Giddens is 6'5".  Throwing him in there at small forward, especially as a rookie, would kill the team.  From what I've read, he's projected as a shooting guard who can play a bit of point guard if necessary.  Sure, he's a good rebounding guard, but I don't think the team would be dumb enough to try to play him at SF.

...don't know where you got that info Roy, but Giddens is a 2/3 all the way-no PG in him, but has a good passing eye-like Pierce or Ray...

Giddens may be 6'5, but he is easily sporting a standing reach akin to Pierce and has physical strength...Tony Allen has also played quite a bit of SF in his day...and the team is looking for about 15-18mpg between Allen/Giddens/Walker at the 3 if the roster  remains as-is...this is completely fine IMO..

The team has two experienced wings to man the 3 and 2 rookies who will have a chance to compete for PT...the team got to keep its depth while not committing for more than 2 years, which seems to be their objective all along...

Now, the team could easily add another vet wing for the minimum-such as Mike Finley-but I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge wants to see some chance at minutes from the younger players...Tony Allen is going into his 5th year and can certainly play the role of defensive stopper against most every assignment he's given, 3-1...the offense out of both he and House has high upside, but steady downside-at least 15 points i'd say...the bulk of the bench scoring probably will come from Powe, who showed in the 2nd half of last year that he could handle that responsibility.

If the team signs no one else right now, it'll be bench-by-committee again, with the possibility that Powe/TA/House become a super-explosive trio capable of 25 points themsleves...POB, Davis, Walker, Giddens and Pruitt will all have a chance to get minutes situationally and when need arises while the team still maintains a solid core...

...however, with 3 million left in MLE money, don't be suprised if the team continues to see if there is anything of impact left to accomplish on the market...but I think they're satisfied with the group in place now...

considering what is left out there, i certainly hope this is the plan.

i could look forward to seeing JR and Walker get PT (although still a worry losing Posey from Title standpoint) and i think the guys still out there would be wasting a roster spot at this point.

i can get behind the injection of high-fliers into the rotation at least for the start of the season and then see what happens...

[winsomme]

..one more VITAL point in all of this...Ainge and the team seem to be satisfied that the current roster can compete and they've also shown a willingness to spend MLE money to do so...the fact that they have arrived at the players they now have tells me they did their diligence and feel they've accomplished their goals..

Many of the same skeptics on this thread were the same who were convinced Ainge was going in the wrong direction in the past...the man just executed a master-stroke of team building over the past 5 years...I think much of this disgruntlement in terms of the roster is unfounded and will prove to be so in time...

...are we heavier on youth thus far? Sure, but you can look down the line at the projected top 8 in the rotation and all of them played key roles on the past season's title team...TA would be the only one taking a more prominent role as he'd be looking to fill most of Posey's minutes at the 3, which was only 12mpg last year. If Ainge feels confident that TA can give a meaningful contribution in that role, who here has more knowledge of the situation or more accomplishment in the job to second guess?

This forum is made for discussion, not saying people shouldn't voice their concerns, but its insane to me to see more definitive negativity when the man making the decisions has done so well relative to the common wisdom of this board...you may want to leave some wiggle room for yourselves...and the FA season isn't even over with. It is quite possible that the team has designs on acquiring more veterans...

i think even Danny would acknowledge that he is making a calculated gamble here not going to four years on Pose - with next season being the biggest gamble since we probably had the best chance of pulling off a repeat with Pose in the fold.

but like i said earlier, i can get behind seeing what the youngs can do and still have some money to spend if needed...and we still have a very very good chance at back to backs..