Celtics sign O'bryant

[Who]

Spears says he signed for 2 years 3 million, doesn't sound like it was for the min.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/12/celtics_get_their_big/

I trust Marc Spears to have his information right. Especially when he's had a bit of time to sort everything out. Very good at his job and has a good track record.

$3mil over 2 seasons. Can you use only part of the LLE? I didn't think you could but I'm not certain. They had to use part of the MLE to do that right? That would be somewhat close to 1.5mil the first year right? So wipe that off the available MLE money.

So they can't offer Posey the MLE anymore. They'll have something close to 4.5mil to offer him.

Did we just lose James Posey?

i think they would have used the LLE

Yep it can be split.

BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception was previously named the "$1 Million exception" (perhaps "misnamed" is more appropriate, since it was only valued at $1 million in 1998-99).

This exception may not be used two years in a row (and if the $1 Million exception was used in 2004-05, the Bi-Annual exception may not be used in 2005-06).  It may be split and given to more than one player, and can be used to sign players for up to two years, with raises limited to 8%.

Okay well that hopefully is that and nothing that will effect Posey. Must be the LLE right? Yeah. Yep.

I remember thinking the same thing last year when Eddie House signed though.

Makes me think O Bryant is probably coming in to replace PJ Brown. Spending the LLE reduces a lot of the flexibility the Celtics had for acquiring someone like Elson or Kurt Thomas or whoever else. Plus it's a bit steep for a guy who'd be 3rd string center and the 6th big man in the rotation.

[celt4ever]

men i can't sleep 

[Tradetime]

I was hoping we'd take O'Bryant back in the '06 draft. So I'm thrilled to have him on our squad now.

[P2]

It's a two-year contract, and since you can use the LLE only once in two years, I think he signed for the LLE, with the rest probably to be used for Bill Walker.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Spears says he signed for 2 years 3 million, doesn't sound like it was for the min.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/12/celtics_get_their_big/

I trust Marc Spears to have his information right. Especially when he's had a bit of time to sort everything out. Very good at his job and has a good track record.

$3mil over 2 seasons. Can you use only part of the LLE? I didn't think you could but I'm not certain. They had to use part of the MLE to do that right? That would be somewhat close to 1.5mil the first year right? So wipe that off the available MLE money.

So they can't offer Posey the MLE anymore. They'll have something close to 4.5mil to offer him.

Did we just lose James Posey?

i think they would have used the LLE

Yep it can be split.

BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception was previously named the "$1 Million exception" (perhaps "misnamed" is more appropriate, since it was only valued at $1 million in 1998-99).

This exception may not be used two years in a row (and if the $1 Million exception was used in 2004-05, the Bi-Annual exception may not be used in 2005-06).  It may be split and given to more than one player, and can be used to sign players for up to two years, with raises limited to 8%.

Okay well that hopefully is that and nothing that will effect Posey. Must be the LLE right? Yeah. Yep.

I remember thinking the same thing last year when Eddie House signed though.

Makes me think O Bryant is probably coming in to replace PJ Brown. Spending the LLE reduces a lot of the flexibility the Celtics had for acquiring someone like Elson or Kurt Thomas or whoever else. Plus it's a bit steep for a guy who'd be 3rd string center and the 6th big man in the rotation.

Question though, even if he's a free-agent... is he still restricted to the rookie salary scale? Because if he is, a two year minimum for a guy like him could be around 3 millions. I don't know, I don't think so... but maybe...

[Who]

Question though, even if he's a free-agent... is he still restricted to the rookie salary scale? Because if he is, a two year minimum for a guy like him would be around 3 millions.

That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I'd guess he's done since his rookie contract officially ended and he began a second separate contract he wouldn't still be on his salary scale as the 9th pick. He'd just be a young player on the minimum salary scale. Two years experience minimum is $800k according to Larry Coon.

Brandon Bass was a second round pick so no. I can't think of a first round pick. Korolev nope. Actually Gerald would do. I can't find any news reports giving a figure, all just say minimum contract. Hoopshype has him down for $826k next season.

Oh actually hang on ..... ESPN has Gerald Green down for $1.44mil on the Mavs roster page. Precedent, good. So Gerald must still be on his rookie scale contract as a first round pick. O Bryant probably is too.

Edit: I couldn't find any other information on that Salary Cap site about this.

I'm thinking it's just a minimum contract. No MLE. No LLE. Still on the rookie scale.

[goCeltics]

Question though, even if he's a free-agent... is he still restricted to the rookie salary scale? Because if he is, a two year minimum for a guy like him would be around 3 millions.

That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I'd guess he's done since his rookie contract officially ended and he began a second separate contract he wouldn't still be on his salary scale as the 9th pick. He'd just be a young player on the minimum salary scale. Two years experience minimum is $800k according to Larry Coon.

Brandon Bass was a second round pick so no. I can't think of a first round pick. Korolev nope. Actually Gerald would do. I can't find any news reports giving a figure, all just say minimum contract. Hoopshype has him down for $826k next season.

Oh actually hang on ..... ESPN has Gerald Green down for $1.44mil on the Mavs roster page. Precedent, good. So Gerald must still be on his rookie scale contract as a first round pick. O Bryant probably is too.

Edit: I couldn't find any other information on that Salary Cap site about this.

I'm thinking it's just a minimum contract. No MLE. No LLE. Still on the rookie scale.

rookie scale is for rookies, o’byrant was a ufa, it's possilbe that Bryant signed for the min but they rounded up a bit, with what the nba will pay, 2 years on the min is about 2.3 mil.

EDIT:actually on the min he would be due about 1.7 mil for the 2 years

[BudweiserCeltic]

Question though, even if he's a free-agent... is he still restricted to the rookie salary scale? Because if he is, a two year minimum for a guy like him would be around 3 millions.

That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I'd guess he's done since his rookie contract officially ended and he began a second separate contract he wouldn't still be on his salary scale as the 9th pick. He'd just be a young player on the minimum salary scale. Two years experience minimum is $800k according to Larry Coon.

Brandon Bass was a second round pick so no. I can't think of a first round pick. Korolev nope. Actually Gerald would do. I can't find any news reports giving a figure, all just say minimum contract. Hoopshype has him down for $826k next season.

Oh actually hang on ..... ESPN has Gerald Green down for $1.44mil on the Mavs roster page. Precedent, good. So Gerald must still be on his rookie scale contract as a first round pick. O Bryant probably is too.

Edit: I couldn't find any other information on that Salary Cap site about this.

I'm thinking it's just a minimum contract. No MLE. No LLE. Still on the rookie scale.

rookie scale is for rookies, o’byrant was a ufa, it's possilbe that Bryant signed for the min but they rounded up a bit, with what the nba will pay, 2 years on the min is about 2.3 mil.

EDIT:actually on the min he would be due about 1.7 mil for the 2 years

I don't know, there are certain rules in place to prevent teams from circumventing the salary scale for rookie first rounders.  Don't know how it works in this case though, when it's for the minimum.

But certainly, let's say a team declines an option for a player, and then they want to use some bird rights to sign a player for more than they would've in their rookie scale contract, they can't.  I don't know if the same phenomenon applies to players that sign for the minimum.

[Roy Hobbs]

Once a player is released from this rookie contract, he becomes a free agent.  The *only* team that is restricted in the amount of money they can pay that player is the team who waived him, which can only resign him up to his rookie scale amount.  All other teams can pay him as much or as little as they want, only confined by the limitations of the salary cap and the maximum/minimum salary.

I'm not sure why ESPN would report that Gerald signed a "minimum" contract for $1.4 million, but that's no accurate.

Let's hope the team used the LLE here, and not part of the MLE, like they did with House last season. 

I seriously don't know what the team sees in this kid, to invest more than the minimum.  Bad signing.  I can't imagine Andersen would have been too much more expensive.  O'Blount has more "upside", maybe, but Andersen is a better player right now.  So is Elson.  So is Doleac, even.  "Upside" doesn't do much for us when we're trying to win a championship.

[Roy Hobbs]

It's a two-year contract, and since you can use the LLE only once in two years, I think he signed for the LLE, with the rest probably to be used for Bill Walker.

There's no real need to use the rest on Bill Walker.  They'll just sign him to a standard second round, minimum contract.  Teams use the MLE for second rounders because you can give a three year contract, and thus obtain Bird Rights.  The most you can offer with the LLE is a two-year deal, so it really doesn't help the team any.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

Spin or Shrewd?


The early posts in this thread from yesterday were quoting reports from O'Bryant's workout saying essentially he was out of shape and out played.

This morning the the quotes from Danny are a complete 180:

“I thought he had a fantastic workout with us,” said Ainge, who is still in the hunt to retain free agents James Posey and Eddie House. “The coaches were all really excited about the possibility of working with him.”

“Everybody brings something different to the table, and we really like Patrick’s potential for us,” Ainge said. “We’ve looked at him and watched a lot of tape. We feel like he’s got a very good upside and we think he can help us now with his length and his skill. When we finished his workout and convened, all the coaches were excited about the chance that he would be with our team.

“I think Patrick’s matured a lot both physically and mentally since we visited with him when he was coming out in the draft.”


So the question is, was the Celtics organization floating misinformation earlier or were they spinning yesterday?

[greg_kite]

I seriously don't know what the team sees in this kid, to invest more than the minimum.  Bad signing.  I can't imagine Andersen would have been too much more expensive.  O'Blount has more "upside", maybe, but Andersen is a better player right now.  So is Elson.  So is Doleac, even.  "Upside" doesn't do much for us when we're trying to win a championship.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, Roy.  He's probably just going to be a third string center who they can stash for the post Allen/Pierce/KG era.  They still have a solid starting 5.  Baby and Powe will be the backup for most of the regular season. 

The good news is that other vets will still sign for the minimum with hopes of winning a championship.  Anyone coming to Boston isn't coming for the money.  I still pine for Zo as the real backup center.  He would be perfect.  He doesn't need the money either.

If they can somehow keep Posey without using the midlevel (which they can if he stays within a certain amount of what he made last year, right?), keep Eddie on the cheap, and sign Zo to replace PJ and Bonzi to replace TA then this team will be better than last year. 

P.O. Box 26 is only replacing Pollard.  Pollard didn't fit the team defensive scheme, which is weak side help shot blocking.  His offense will be similar to Perks but maybe even better.  I've never seen Perk do an alley oop.  At least P.O. can finish one. 

His conditioning won't matter much either since he won't play more than 5 minutes at a time anyway.  Perk hardly does, P.O. definitely won't.

KG will play plenty of center with Baby or Leon or (hopefully) Posey at the 4.

And also keep in mind with Danny's other free agent signings, he wasn't in the driver's seat.  Nobody wanted to come here.  Now he has people who want to come that he doesn't have to overpay.

[Roy Hobbs]

P.O. Box 26 is only replacing Pollard. 

I hope that's true.  However, other teams in our conference have improved; I was hoping the Celts would do the same thing.  Bringing in an Andersen or an Elson would have accomplished that goal, as we would have been bringing in established NBA players who at least can help win.  They'd be an upgrade over Pollard.  O'Bryant is about on Pollard's level, in terms of contributions he can be expected to make in the short-term.

We should have gone into the off-season with the idea of upgrading both Pollard and P.J., or at least solidifying those two positions.  As of right now, we're looking at a net downgrade.

I would be thrilled if we could land another center, like Zo or really, anybody else other than O'Bryant.  However, to count on this kid actually making a contribution is misguided.  We had a chance to upgrade a position of weakness in the short-term, and we ignored that in favor of long-term potential.  I don't like that thinking.

I understand having a "project" on the roster.  However, when you're defending champs it doesn't make much sense to have 1/3 of your roster filled with such players.  I'll reserve final judgment to see if the team brings in another big man, but if they don't, no, I'm not loving this move.

[MVP]

I don't understand the fuss about signing O'Bryant. None of the veteran centers out there that are available for cheap are better then Big Baby even though he's undersized. So why just get a sucky veteran who's clearly worse then both Powe and Big Baby when you can get a young center with some potential.

I don't understand the fascination with Anderson. He didn't play for 2 years, didn't show much last year and he isn't even a center. Big Baby and Powe are much better fits next to KG then Anderson because you need someone with some bulk next to him and Anderson is skinny.

Elson, Magloire, Doleac and Foyle are all worse then either Big Baby or Leon Powe so what's the point of getting them. In an emergency situation where we need a vet big, Pollard will probably be available.

[P2]

I have to add that we will go small most of the time anyway, with Powe and Baby at the 4 and 5, respectively. O'Bryant might crack the rotation if he plays well, but will mainly be used only against big guys like Biedrins, Big Al, etc.