Would you prefer Allen and Pietrus....

[footey]

At the risk of getting crucified, let me suggest that Danny's
back-up plan if he loses Posey and does not get Maggette is going to be Scal and Tony Allen. Yes, Scal.  Scal can defend the 4 well, and can hit the outside 3, although obviously not as well as Pose. He is a poor man's Posey, really. I know that is not what you want to hear.  But it is probably our simplest, most obvious Plan C.  

[KungPoweChicken]

In my opinion, Tony Allen is greatly under rated on this board. Also, James Posey is greatly over rated. Tony Allen played the worst basketball of his career last season coming off a serious knee injury. With that being said, Tony was still very good defensively. Tony Allen can only go up from here. He is going to be a lot better next year. He is getting his legs under him, Tony is going to play a much more complete, and intelligent game.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Keep in mind people, that on a team with stars at the 2 and 3, we really only need one quality backup at the 2/3 unless someone gets hurt.

Ah, the important exception... unless someone gets hurt. As I've said countless times, we were quite lucky that our team was healthy through most of the year and playoffs. Depth is overrated, until you suddenly need it.

True.  But if one if Pierce, Allen, or Posey/replacement go down for any extended period of time, Tony Allen's "depth" isn't going to make a difference. 

I have to completely disagree... his ability to play 3 different positions and defend them to a level of effectiveness makes him the perfect depth guy... a utility guy of sorts. Takes one roster spot, and can fill in for different circumstances. He played the role substantially well through the season when one of our guys went down at some point or another.

[Jon]

Keep in mind people, that on a team with stars at the 2 and 3, we really only need one quality backup at the 2/3 unless someone gets hurt.

Ah, the important exception... unless someone gets hurt. As I've said countless times, we were quite lucky that our team was healthy through most of the year and playoffs. Depth is overrated, until you suddenly need it.

True.  But if one if Pierce, Allen, or Posey/replacement go down for any extended period of time, Tony Allen's "depth" isn't going to make a difference. 

I have to completely disagree... his ability to play 3 different positions and defend them to a level of effectiveness makes him the perfect depth guy... a utility guy of sorts. Takes one roster spot, and can fill in for different circumstances. He played the role substantially well through the season when one of our guys went down at some point or another.

While I'd maybe agree with that assessment over a game or two span (like when he filled in at point against the Lakers during the regular season), he can't do that over any extended period of time at the 1(where he can't dribble) and 3 (where he's too short). 

[indeedproceed]

In my opinion, Tony Allen is greatly under rated on this board. Also, James Posey is greatly over rated. Tony Allen played the worst basketball of his career last season coming off a serious knee injury. With that being said, Tony was still very good defensively. Tony Allen can only go up from here. He is going to be a lot better next year. He is getting his legs under him, Tony is going to play a much more complete, and intelligent game.

If that were true. or if Danny and Doc thought that might be true we would already have resigned tony. Tony Allen has never had a complete intelligent game or anything like it. He gets hot sometimes, sure, but he's never had a complete game. He plays good man on defense but gets duped by cagey vets. He can slash to the hoop but settles for jumpers too often, because opponents sag off him like they do with Rondo. Giddens can shoot the three, Pietrus can shoot the three, Tony can't. In the one year when Tony attempted 1 three pointer per game, he shot 24% from behind the arc. Pietrus shoots almost 3 a game, and he shot 36%. He's also bigger than Tony. He's also the same age.

Giddens is 3 years younger than Tony, and by all accounts has NBA range. He's also bigger than Tony and injury free. I'm sorry Im just not on the TA bandwagon anymore, I think we can find better options for the same or cheaper money.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Keep in mind people, that on a team with stars at the 2 and 3, we really only need one quality backup at the 2/3 unless someone gets hurt.

Ah, the important exception... unless someone gets hurt. As I've said countless times, we were quite lucky that our team was healthy through most of the year and playoffs. Depth is overrated, until you suddenly need it.

True.  But if one if Pierce, Allen, or Posey/replacement go down for any extended period of time, Tony Allen's "depth" isn't going to make a difference. 

I have to completely disagree... his ability to play 3 different positions and defend them to a level of effectiveness makes him the perfect depth guy... a utility guy of sorts. Takes one roster spot, and can fill in for different circumstances. He played the role substantially well through the season when one of our guys went down at some point or another.

While I'd maybe agree with that assessment over a game or two span (like when he filled in at point against the Lakers during the regular season), he can't do that over any extended period of time at the 1(where he can't dribble) and 3 (where he's too short). 

True, but find me someone who could fill all those roles... probably a somewhat rare thing to have. And then you consider our limited resources, the people we can have in that role become quite scarce. Thankfully, there should be better depth this year at the one with Pruitt getting some run. There's also Giddens who could move up to the 3... keeping Tony as the main 2 back-up in these circumstances, but him being capable of playing through any of those positions in short stints or for more if needed, is quite valuable (especially when he only takes one roster spot and doesn't take away any resources that could be used to acquire other players).

[bucknersrevenge]

In my opinion, Tony Allen is greatly under rated on this board. Also, James Posey is greatly over rated. Tony Allen played the worst basketball of his career last season coming off a serious knee injury. With that being said, Tony was still very good defensively. Tony Allen can only go up from here. He is going to be a lot better next year. He is getting his legs under him, Tony is going to play a much more complete, and intelligent game.

If that were true. or if Danny and Doc thought that might be true we would already have resigned tony. Tony Allen has never had a complete intelligent game or anything like it. He gets hot sometimes, sure, but he's never had a complete game. He plays good man on defense but gets duped by cagey vets. He can slash to the hoop but settles for jumpers too often, because opponents sag off him like they do with Rondo. Giddens can shoot the three, Pietrus can shoot the three, Tony can't. In the one year when Tony attempted 1 three pointer per game, he shot 24% from behind the arc. Pietrus shoots almost 3 a game, and he shot 36%. He's also bigger than Tony. He's also the same age.

Giddens is 3 years younger than Tony, and by all accounts has NBA range. He's also bigger than Tony and injury free. I'm sorry Im just not on the TA bandwagon anymore, I think we can find better options for the same or cheaper money.

exactly if the kid hasnt figured it out by now hes not gonna. enough excuses have been made. its time to let him go and give someone else a shot. tony is just way too inconsistent from game to game not knowing what to expect from him and i think doc and danny are finally tired of it. and they should be. for a fraction of what it would cost to keep tony you can have both giddens and walker who are both bigger and more talented at both ends of the floor. i dont think there's even a question.

[Fan from VT]

well, considering that behind Rondo and Perk we have Pruitt and        , I might prefer to sign Birdman, Pietrus and dooling using bits of the MLE than Posey with all of it.

[Fan from VT]

On the other hand, i'm starting to think our "future" may be a mess regardless, and it's not my money, so if they can get a decent center and point with other exceptions, i don't think i'd be too upset seeing posey back here at 6 mil a year...which of course could be around 8 mil in 2012 (ouch).

Edit:
As a cautionary tale, just look at the similar roles and contributions of Bowen and Posey, and consider Bowen has only been making 4 mil a year despite generally being a much better defender, and also consider how much bowen has slowed down recently. He's not worth his 4 mil now, how will posey be worth 8 in 5 years?

[crownsy]

Keep in mind people, that on a team with stars at the 2 and 3, we really only need one quality backup at the 2/3 unless someone gets hurt.

Ah, the important exception... unless someone gets hurt. As I've said countless times, we were quite lucky that our team was healthy through most of the year and playoffs. Depth is overrated, until you suddenly need it.

depth at spots your solid at while neglecting spots your not (I.E Center) is just as overrated.

[bucknersrevenge]

On the other hand, i'm starting to think our "future" may be a mess regardless, and it's not my money, so if they can get a decent center and point with other exceptions, i don't think i'd be too upset seeing posey back here at 6 mil a year...which of course could be around 8 mil in 2012 (ouch).

Edit:
As a cautionary tale, just look at the similar roles and contributions of Bowen and Posey, and consider Bowen has only been making 4 mil a year despite generally being a much better defender, and also consider how much bowen has slowed down recently. He's not worth his 4 mil now, how will posey be worth 8 in 5 years?

i dont know if i agree that our future could be a mess. if were 20 mil under the cap for 3 guys and then you factor in rondos extension which id bet would be around 8 mil or so that still leaves you around 12-13 to go. then you sign your big FA if you want. after that you can round out your team with less expensive fa's correct me if im wrong but we can go over the cap to resign giddens and walker if we want right? or anyone else we sign between now and then whos contract expires in 2010. plus our draft pics whoever they may be. all i know is in this game talent wins. thats obvious. as long as you have big talent you have a foundation to work with.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Keep in mind people, that on a team with stars at the 2 and 3, we really only need one quality backup at the 2/3 unless someone gets hurt.

Ah, the important exception... unless someone gets hurt. As I've said countless times, we were quite lucky that our team was healthy through most of the year and playoffs. Depth is overrated, until you suddenly need it.

depth at spots your solid at while neglecting spots your not (I.E Center) is just as overrated.

I agree with you, which is why I've mentioned that I would like to see Danny try and trade Scal and Big Baby for whatever they can. For one player, or two players if it includes a big man. Then address the roster by signing the big man they were planning to sign anyways. Among those big man, one should be a legit PF/C.

That's my plan in addressing the need... don't know if it's a viable plan, but it's worth looking into.

Why do this? Gives us more legit size, it provides more flexibility in the PF/C positions, and it keeps Garnett at the PF position.

[Chris]

I absolutely wouldn't prefer him, but I would pursue Pietrus strongly as a backup, if you can't get Posey or Maggette.

I have zero interest in bringing back Allen, because I think Giddens fills his spot as the emergency wing with potential to be more very nicely.

[powe is the man]

Warriors fan here...

Pietrus is a solid bench guy in the NBA.  However, he's not an outstanding defensive player.  I'm not really sure why he has that label.  I've seen him get lit up countless times.  Of course that could change with the KG influence---not many players are driven to play D in Nellie's system.

One of my biggest gripes with him though is that he let's the flow of the game dictate his play.  It seems like he only plays well when the whole team is playing well.  He doesn't have the ability to pull a team out of a funk (like Posey).

However, he can occassionally catch fire.  The corner 3 is his bread and butter. 

Oh yeah, someone mentioned it above, he can be a bonehead sometime---a real liability in the clutch.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I absolutely wouldn't prefer him, but I would pursue Pietrus strongly as a backup, if you can't get Posey or Maggette.

I have zero interest in bringing back Allen, because I think Giddens fills his spot as the emergency wing with potential to be more very nicely.

My question to you is, wouldn't you like to see this type of unit and see what they can do?

Rondo
Tony
Giddens
Posey
Garnett

If not Tony, some other athletic 2. The reason I ask is because it's only possible if we treat Giddens as an addition instead of a replacement. We got Walker too, but I haven't seen much expectations of him for this year... so if both Walker and Giddens somehow make the roster, we could have a really explosive unit. If he doesn't, then I'd like to see Tony or a real replacement. I preffer to treat Giddens as an addition to the roster.