Would you like a WNBA team in Boston or Massachusetts for that matter?

[iowa plowboy]

Sad part is, the game is terribly unexciting but well played.  If the league that keeps the WNBA afloat had half of the basketball skills shown in the WNBA, the NBA game would be twice as exciting to watch.   Combine the sound fundamentals of the WNBA with the athletism of the NBA and we'd have a product to shatter the one we have now. 

That's the common stereotype, but I'm not sure that it holds up.

In terms of fundamentals, players in the NBA shot 45.7% from the field and 36.2% from three last season.  WNBA players shot 42.0% and 34.8%, respectively.  Every team in the WNBA shot worse than the NBA league average.  The men averaged 99.9 points per game, the ladies averaged 76.6 points per game. 

The women -- slightly -- outshot the men from the free throw line, 77.5% vs. 75.5%.  However, that's the only statistical evidence I can find for the women being better at anything fundamentally.

I wasn't looking at stats.  My focus was more on ball movement, more low post play, positioning defensively, blocking out, etc.  I've watched so little that I couldn't come up with stats unless I researched.  Just an observation from those few games and several UCONN and Tennessee

The only women's BB games I enjoy watching is when UConn and/or Tennessee play.  Consistently well-coached and fundamentally sound basketball..Also usually competitive and close...and then only in the NCAA tourney or during the season when there's nothing else worth watching.   

[nickagneta]

Sad part is, the game is terribly unexciting but well played.  If the league that keeps the WNBA afloat had half of the basketball skills shown in the WNBA, the NBA game would be twice as exciting to watch.   Combine the sound fundamentals of the WNBA with the athletism of the NBA and we'd have a product to shatter the one we have now. 

That's the common stereotype, but I'm not sure that it holds up.

In terms of fundamentals, players in the NBA shot 45.7% from the field and 36.2% from three last season.  WNBA players shot 42.0% and 34.8%, respectively.  Every team in the WNBA shot worse than the NBA league average.  The men averaged 99.9 points per game, the ladies averaged 76.6 points per game. 

The women -- slightly -- outshot the men from the free throw line, 77.5% vs. 75.5%.  However, that's the only statistical evidence I can find for the women being better at anything fundamentally.

I wasn't looking at stats.  My focus was more on ball movement, more low post play, positioning defensively, blocking out, etc.  I've watched so little that I couldn't come up with stats unless I researched.  Just an observation from those few games and several UCONN and Tennessee

The only women's BB games I enjoy watching is when UConn and/or Tennessee play.  Consistently well-coached and fundamentally sound basketball..Also usually competitive and close...and then only in the NCAA tourney or during the season when there's nothing else worth watching.   

I can't believe I'm saying this.

Iowa has one of the more liberal views on this subject. Good for you iowa.

I'm sorry but let's correct a few misconceptions.

- The WNBA game is not a monetary drain on the NBA. I didn't look into it but someone here said the NBA subsidizes the WNBA to the tune of $12 million per year. To put that into perspective there were more than $12 million in contracts that got traded last year where the players got paid to sit at home and do nothing but be a contract(Keith Van Horne is one). If that is the part of doing business for ONE NBA team then $12 million is just a drop in the bucket that falls out of David Sterns pocket when he pulls out the NBS's collective wallet from his pants. We are talking a pittance people. That's far from a monetary drain.

- No matter what way you want to spin it saying women's basketball isn't for you simply because it's women playing is sexist. I think it might be better to be apathetic to it than to stay you don't like it or wish it didn't exist. I know this is going to catch a lot of flak but I'm sure I'm not the only one reading this thread thinking the same thing. I don't watch the WNBA but and I wouldn't mind or care if a franchise popped up here, although I'm not sure it would work in Boston, but I believe they have every right to have the league, advertise when and where they want and be subsidized by any entity that wishes to do so.

- Comparing current WNBA players to current NBA players are unfair. How about someone break out some pre-1950 film on the NBA and compare that to the WNBA. I wonder which game resembles the current game more and would appear more appealing to watch?

Every sport has to start somewhere. Women's golf couldn't start by hitting off the same tees and couldn't be compared to their contempararies. But put Anika Soremstam against players of the 1940's and you might be surprised with the results.

Give this league a half century, obviously the NBA seems to be doing so, and let's see what the quality of product and what the fanbase looks like in 50 years.

[cordobes]

If you as a fan put a lot of emphasis on athleticism and playing above the rim, it's understandable you find WNBA games boring. Personally, I liked those I watched: well-played games with very skilled players, good zone defenses, better ball movement than in the NBA. It's a more sophisticated game, I'd say. Not boring at all for me, but it's a matter of personal preferences. 

[Roy Hobbs]

If you as a fan put a lot of emphasis on athleticism and playing above the rim, it's understandable you find WNBA games boring. Personally, I liked those I watched: well-played games with very skilled players, good zone defenses, better ball movement than in the NBA. It's a more sophisticated game, I'd say. Not boring at all for me, but it's a matter of personal preferences. 

Lots of missed shots and turnovers, too.

In all seriousness, though, I fall into nick's category of "just don't care".  I'm glad there's a women's league, and I admire the skills of a lot of female basketball players, but it's a major step downward from men's bball, and I just don't find it exciting.

[incoherent]

- Comparing current WNBA players to current NBA players are unfair. How about someone break out some pre-1950 film on the NBA and compare that to the WNBA. I wonder which game resembles the current game more and would appear more appealing to watch?

Every sport has to start somewhere. Women's golf couldn't start by hitting off the same tees and couldn't be compared to their contempararies. But put Anika Soremstam against players of the 1940's and you might be surprised with the results.

Give this league a half century, obviously the NBA seems to be doing so, and let's see what the quality of product and what the fanbase looks like in 50 years.

Let the beautiful game of basketball be shared by every race and gender around the world. TP for you.

If there was a female Boston Celtics team I would certainly enjoy watching them and since their tickets would probably be cheaper I might go to some games.

I'm a fan of the sport.

[Frontierboy]

Oh please no...... having a root canal with no anesthesia is more fun

[iowa plowboy]

Iowa has one of the more liberal views on this subject. Good for you iowa.

I obviously need to change my view then.  

- Comparing current WNBA players to current NBA players are unfair. How about someone break out some pre-1950 film on the NBA and compare that to the WNBA. I wonder which game resembles the current game more and would appear more appealing to watch?

Excellent point...Sound comparison, also.  Watching the WNBA, UCONN, and Tennessee reminds me of watching Hoosiers.  Hoosiers reminds me of the old time 50s NBA games.  The prototype women's jumper looks a lot like Jimmy Chitwood's. Coach Laimbeer probably also has the disposition of Chitwood's coach.

Give this league a half century, obviously the NBA seems to be doing so, and let's see what the quality of product and what the fanbase looks like in 50 years.

In 50 years, the WNBA's players will be the same size as the NBA's players are today...But slightly less athletic.  The NBA will have 3 or more 8+foot players and have 3 or more 7ft point guards.  The primadonna's athletism will be in the lower tier of the NBA 50 years from now.  The game will have no resemblence whatsoever to today's NBA game.

[ConnerHenry]

We already have the Bruins....

[greenfan]

I actually like watching the WNBA.

I would enjoy and follow a team in Boston.  Might even think about season tickets.

Its not the same as the NBA.  But I dont go in to watching it expecting it to be.  Its kind of like a turkey burger vs. a ground beef burger.  If you get a turkey burger and expect ground beef flavor you may be diappointed.  But a turkey burger done right can still be pretty freakin good.

[cordobes]

If you as a fan put a lot of emphasis on athleticism and playing above the rim, it's understandable you find WNBA games boring. Personally, I liked those I watched: well-played games with very skilled players, good zone defenses, better ball movement than in the NBA. It's a more sophisticated game, I'd say. Not boring at all for me, but it's a matter of personal preferences. 

Lots of missed shots and turnovers, too.

In all seriousness, though, I fall into nick's category of "just don't care".  I'm glad there's a women's league, and I admire the skills of a lot of female basketball players, but it's a major step downward from men's bball, and I just don't find it exciting.

Lots of broken plays compared to what? The NBA, the Euroleague, the NCAA final 4? Surely... but I tried to watch a Summer League game yesterday and it was unbearable (the commentators were hilarious, though). OTH, I only watch WNBA games from a single team during the playoffs, so maybe I'm giving the all league more credit that they really deserve. But yeah, it's a matter of preference and expectations. 

[incoherent]

Oh please no...... having a root canal with no anesthesia is more fun

I've actually had one of those and it was painless.

[nickagneta]

For anyone that has coached this game or any other, you tend to enjoy the game and expectations for how it is being played. I don't coach CYO basketball expecting to see 80% FT shooting or 45% FG shooting. I don't expect a lot of above the rim basketball. But it is exhilarating to watch a group of kids properly perform a 2-3 zone defense or a swing of the ball around the outside to get to a weakside shooter, or just the proper boxing out positions on a missed FT.
 
I have then seen some of my kids go on to play at higher levels and as the level of play increases so does the expectation of watching better quality basketball. Soemtimes you are let down, for instance some late season NBA games with 2 teams trying to tank for better draft position can be some of the absolute worst basketball I've ever seen and yet I saw a game ptting to teams from two different middle schools vying for the title of best middle school team in my home town and was astounded at the quality of the fundamentals on display and am sure I saw a future NBA player when I saw this 6'5" 13 year old reverse dunk on a breakaway.

(BTW the kid will be playing at Everett High School in Mass this winter for any of the locals who enjoy HS basketball. He is a good friend of my son and his doctors tell him he should finish growing in the 6'11" to 7'1" range. Great hands and a good handle. Watch for this kid in the future. He plays in the defensive backfield for his Pop Warner team. Ouch!)

So before lambasting WNBA basketball I think people should temper their expectations as to what they are seeing and stop trying to dump on women's basketball simply because it's women's basketball.

[furball]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread I am a big WNBA fan.  I just want to interject my thoughts on what has been said and the league itself.  There gonna be pretty random so just try and stick with me. I guessing this is going to be long.   

--I think one of the reason I am a WNBA fan is because I am such an old school basketball fan.  I'm only 31 so I'm not actually that old but I'm still old school. I'm not gonna give you the "they're better fundamentally" and all that line, That's not what I mean.  What I am talking about  is the fact that I was never a huge Dunk fan and all that fancy stuff.  I wasnever a huge fan of some dribbling 82 time between thier legs but only moving 6 inches on the court or stuff like that.  I hate the And 1 tour stuff.  Now I'm not saying I don't like dunks or that I think they should go bact to dunks being illegal, it's just not the end all be all for me so thatfact that that is missing from the womans game doesn't bother me. 

--There are a lot of good things in the WNBA that make up for the lack of high flying. Here are a few examples.   
     --the passing.  I could watch Larry Bird pass the ball all day.  He was amazing and it was one of my favorite parts of his game.  In the WNBA there are tons of great passes.  Because they can't just out athletic each other all the time (it does happen just not all the time) they have to rely on ball movement a lot more.  While this can lead to more turn overs (when ever you pass the ball more you are going to get more turnovers) it does lead to a ton of great looks. Even in the NBA I think a great pass that gets a player and easy lay-up is better then a one-on-one move and it's no different in the WNBA. 

     --There are great one on one moves in the WNBA, they just don't end in dunks. But not all NBA moves end in dunks either.  Today in the Mercury/Comets game Cappie Pondexter (of my Merc) made three great moves that if Rondo had made them everyone here would have been typing "RONDO!!!" and "OMG RONDO!!"  all over the game thread.  And he wouldn't have ended them in dunks either. There are great post moves as well.  Again, an up and under move  or a baby hook doesn't get any better when you're 7 feet tall. 

     --Clutch shooting is clutch shooting by men or women.  Also using todays game as an example.  With less then a minute left Cappie ties the game with her first free throw but her second one rims out.  The Merc grab the offensive rebound swing it around the top of the key to a wide open Turassi who bangs home the go ahead three pointer.  That's exciting weather you're 4 feet tall, 7 feet tall, or 16 feet tall.

     --The Pheonix Mercury run a fast break better then any team in the NBA right now including their couterparts the Suns.  Now maybe if you're a fan of another WNBA team this isn't as much a good thing as it is for me but I'm a Merc fan so I get to enjoy it whenever I am lucky enough to see a game. 

     
--Now, while I am a fan I'm also the first to admit the league has it's problems.  Such as the following. 

     --There's still not enough tallent.  Now I've followed the league since year one and I can say for certain the tallent has gone up since it's inseption.  However, there is still not enough depth.  What I mean by this is that for the love of God they have to stop expanding!!  They've added two teams in ( I believe) the past three seasons.  Chicargo a few years back and Atlanta this season.  While there's enough solid players to fill all of the rosters, it waters down the tallent too much to showcase the league.  What I mean by this is that Commisioner Orender (who is giving Betman a run for his money in the "worst commishioner in sports" title) doesn't understand that the league can't afford to water itself down.  They need to concentrait the tallent to impress the general public to create more fanes.  The established leagues like the NBA and the NFL can water down the tallent all they want, they have a huge fan base that really isn't going anywhere.  But when you are a new league you need to establish a great fanbase before you start expanding. It just doesn't make sense at this point.  What they need is a handfull of really good to great teams to provide a bunch of really competitive, exciting games to draw fans. 

     --They also need to changes some rules. 
          --First they have to go to 12 minute quarters.  Scoring increased when they adopted the 24 second shot clock (as opposed to the 35 second clock they started with) and the 4 quaters set up.  However they failed to add the extra 2 minute per quarter that the NBA plays.  This is big because it hurts scoring while most non fans have no clue that they are playing fewer minutes.  8 minutes a game is pretty big.  Even when one of their games goes into overtime they still have not played as many minutes as an NBA game.  Not only does this lower the scores for the games but it also lowers the indivdual stats for the players. These are things that non fans will notice.  It was really a lost oppertunity when the league first started as they would have been outscoring NBA teams back then.  It would have been something to get them noticed. 

           --They have to move the three point line back and/or get rid of the zone defenses. It's just too cluttered.  They should go to the old NBA defense rule where you have to be covering someone (the NBA should go back to this too but that's a discussion for another thread).   

          --I still think they have to go to the full sized ball.  I've watched a lot of basketball and it just seems to me that the smaller ball reacts differently to the rim and the back board and they don't get as many friendly bounces and rolls as guys do.  Not just the NBA but any guys using a full sized ball. 

          --The last thing they need to do is to market themselves to sports fans and not women.  They can't survive onjust women.  Not enough women follow sports in general.

Well, I think this is long enough.  I'm guessing not may have read this far as it is.  Like I have said, I am a big WNBA fan and think there is a lot of good to the league but it could be a lot better.  But then, so could the NBA.                     

[TradeProposalDude]

I don't watch the WNBA. It's not that I think women shouldn't play basketball. For what it's worth, I think the existence of the league is a terrific idea. It gives young girls incentive to play the sport and have ambitions in terms of reaching a big stage, rather than having it all come to an end once they graduate from college.

I will admit that when I do get around to watching the WNBA for a couple minutes, I just don't get the same thrillas I do with an NBA game. I automatically change the channel whenever I see it's on. Maybe I've been socially neutered to believe what I'm watching is a diluted product - by the invisible but powerful masculine / macho anchors of society. Perhaps even when I'm alone at my place watching the WNBA, I feel ashamed and "less than manly" doing so, which castigates me to change the channel so that my manhood is restored.

But really. I just don't care for it. And it's nothing personal.

[zerophase]

i never watch the wnba. its just not the same. while i have yet to attend an nba game, i have attended a wnba game. there was less people there than an ncaa game. the wnba just doesn't excite me. i mean when theres a huge deal made about 1 dunk (first ever, second ever)- well thats just not enough for me to pull me away from the nba.