Would you like a WNBA team in Boston or Massachusetts for that matter?

[Schupac]

Yeah, yeah, you can argue that they can't handle it physically, but I'd bet that once or twice a decade, some woman would come along (re: Candace Parker?) and hold her own for a few years. Sure, she wouldn't be an all-star, but she could contribute as an 8th or 9th "man" and the media would go crazy (you see how much they love Michelle Wie and she stinks).

Candace Parker would get destroyed in the NBA.  She just doesn't have the size, strength, or athleticism to hang with any current player.  I know a lot of people will throw out a guy like Scal, but he's not that bad of an athlete, in actuality, and was a very good college player. 

I can't think of a single NBA player than Candace Parker could beat out.

Tyrone Lue

LOLOL TP.

No, nor would I like a WNBA team in any city in America.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm really not a fan and I hate the idea of an unsuccesful league being kept alive for purely sexist reasons.  If you are producing a product for which there are not enough consumers to support it, your business should fail.

I didn't realize the WNBA was losing money. Can you provide a link? I'd like to read it. I would expect that the WNBA has way more viewers than the developmental league or other past recent non-NBA leagues.

What "sexist" reasons would there be? Multiple soccer leagues have failed, as have the USFL and the CBA. They are all business ventures. If what you claim is true and the WNBA is failing financially, what does sexism have to do with the league continuing?

Is there a sport that isn't split by gender besides billiards? Why should this bother anyone?

Should we get rid of the LPGA since the winner makes more money then PGA players who are better? That is silly, since no one would watch the LPGA if it was coed and was just a lesser version of the PGA. Same thing for tennis.

There are links in my above post.

Sorry I wasn't clear about the sexist comment - what I was saying is that the only reason the WNBA is still in existence is because of sexism.  It's only because the league features women that it is still around, and I think that is sexism.  Any other league that was not making a profit by it's 8th or 9th year would be shut down, but for (I believe) PR reasons (and a healthy dose of David Stern stubborness) the NBA doesn't want to shut down the WNBA.

Sure, most feminists probably do not support the WNBA by going to the games.  But I'm sure a healthy portion of those same people would be very vocally upset if the WNBA was shut down.

[jaketwice]

I would like to see it, but in a much different format.

1). The seats should be way close to the Court. I'm not paying for nose-bleed at the WNBA...  Maybe Loge seating would be the highest level

2). Can we have cool skirts like in tennis instead of those mannish shorts? There's nothing graceful about a woman in men's basketball clothes. They all look somewhat frumpy.

3). The rules should be changed so that there' no 3 point shot in womens' ball.  That would encourage quickness, and maybe help breed out the kind of slow play that makes the game boring.

[Chief]

If Boston did have a WNBA franchise, maybe Bird and Ainge could compete in the "Shooting Stars" activity on All-Star weekend.

[bleedingreen]

If Boston did have a WNBA franchise, maybe Bird and Ainge could compete in the "Shooting Stars" activity on All-Star weekend.

Good thinking. I can see Dana Barrows sneaking into that too. In that case, yeah I'm all for it. Pittsfield seems like a good neck of the woods for it.

[dark_lord]

Dana Barrows

sorry, but that made me laugh!
TP for your unintentional humor!


no way a wnba team survives in this market.  we have all the major sports at the professional level along with d1 colleges.  if d1 college sports deosnt really catch on, the wnba never will.

[Neurotic Guy]

No, nor would I like a WNBA team in any city in America.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm really not a fan and I hate the idea of an unsuccesful league being kept alive for purely sexist reasons.  If you are producing a product for which there are not enough consumers to support it, your business should fail.

Thankfully American society can boast the dual principles of supporting capitalism AND a social conscience.  Sometimes, a society (or even a business, frankly) makes purposeful sacrifices to advance principles that they see as important (or more important) than profit.  Examples are numerous, but sticking to topic, my childhood in the 60's had virtually no organized sports for girls.  It took the support of male athletics and even legislation (and I often do not support the need for government to intervene, BTW) for girls to gain the athletic options they have today. As father of 2 teenaged girls I can tell you that it makes a difference -- and they are not athletes per se, but thankfully can still experience a role in sports that is not solely about cheering for the boys.  

I am not suggesting that the WNBA is a great product with a long shelf life (I actually have no idea), however, I would not simply dismiss it for being carried for the time being by the powerful and profitable male league.

[nickagneta]

No, nor would I like a WNBA team in any city in America.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm really not a fan and I hate the idea of an unsuccesful league being kept alive for purely sexist reasons.  If you are producing a product for which there are not enough consumers to support it, your business should fail.

Thankfully American society can boast the dual principles of supporting capitalism AND a social conscience.  Sometimes, a society (or even a business, frankly) makes purposeful sacrifices to advance principles that they see as important (or more important) than profit.  Examples are numerous, but sticking to topic, my childhood in the 60's had virtually no organized sports for girls.  It took the support of male athletics and even legislation (and I often do not support the need for government to intervene, BTW) for girls to gain the athletic options they have today. As father of 2 teenaged girls I can tell you that it makes a difference -- and they are not athletes per se, but thankfully can still experience a role in sports that is not solely about cheering for the boys.  

I am not suggesting that the WNBA is a great product with a long shelf life (I actually have no idea), however, I would not simply dismiss it for being carried for the time being by the powerful and profitable male league.

I applaude this post!!

TP4U!!

Very, very, very well said.

[NUMBA 17]

I just can't watch the WNBA....ive actually tried (along with women's college basketball), and after years and years of watching the NBA, it just feels almost like watching kids play (underneath the rim, and slow)....I cant really get into watching b-ball players that I get the feeling in the back of my mind (whether its true or not) that I could possibly beat in a 3 on 3.....LOL....dumb, but just my thoughts....

[Schupac]

No, nor would I like a WNBA team in any city in America.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm really not a fan and I hate the idea of an unsuccesful league being kept alive for purely sexist reasons.  If you are producing a product for which there are not enough consumers to support it, your business should fail.

Thankfully American society can boast the dual principles of supporting capitalism AND a social conscience.  Sometimes, a society (or even a business, frankly) makes purposeful sacrifices to advance principles that they see as important (or more important) than profit.  Examples are numerous, but sticking to topic, my childhood in the 60's had virtually no organized sports for girls.  It took the support of male athletics and even legislation (and I often do not support the need for government to intervene, BTW) for girls to gain the athletic options they have today. As father of 2 teenaged girls I can tell you that it makes a difference -- and they are not athletes per se, but thankfully can still experience a role in sports that is not solely about cheering for the boys.  

I am not suggesting that the WNBA is a great product with a long shelf life (I actually have no idea), however, I would not simply dismiss it for being carried for the time being by the powerful and profitable male league.

You have a solid point.  I would like to clarify, though, that I Think the WNBA is quite different from any sort of title IX scholastic situation.  If a young boy and a young girl both go to school, it is only fair that they both have a chance to participate in the same activities.  If it is public school, those tax dollars are not split by gender.  If it is private school, you pay the same tuition for your daughter.

However, the WNBA doesn't fall into that category.  These are not public funds.  If the NBA wants to subsidize the WNBA for some socially concious reason, that is their choice.  However, when we have cities like Seatlle having their team pulled from them for not being economically viable, it is almost criminal to pull profits from the league to support the WNBA.  And it sure sucks for fans of Seattle, or even for fans of the many profitable teams who are just a little bit less profitable because they are dragging the WNBA behind them.



Also, on the topic of title IX, while I wouldn't be so callous or pigheaded as to say women don't deserve to play sports, I've got a handful of male friends whose teams were disintigrated or underfunded to make room for an under-participated female team.  Obviously, this didn't serve them.

The question isn't as simple as "it should be" or "it shouldn't be" (well, if you ask me regarding the WNBA it is, but not title IX), but it isn't all glory and kumbaya.  Those funds have to come from somewhere.


Edit:  I'm going home for the evening where I don't have internet (I live in in 1979) but I'll be happy to continue this conversation tomorrow.

[cordobes]

You have a solid point.  I would like to clarify, though, that I Think the WNBA is quite different from any sort of title IX scholastic situation.  If a young boy and a young girl both go to school, it is only fair that they both have a chance to participate in the same activities.  If it is public school, those tax dollars are not split by gender.  If it is private school, you pay the same tuition for your daughter.

However, the WNBA doesn't fall into that category.  These are not public funds.  If the NBA wants to subsidize the WNBA for some socially concious reason, that is their choice.  However, when we have cities like Seatlle having their team pulled from them for not being economically viable, it is almost criminal to pull profits from the league to support the WNBA.  And it sure sucks for fans of Seattle, or even for fans of the many profitable teams who are just a little bit less profitable because they are dragging the WNBA behind them.

I find these two paragraphs very odd. I'm very judgmental about public funds - after all, it's our money; but I'm not very comfortable questioning how individuals or private enterprises chose to spend their money, as long as they're not hurting anybody. Even if the NBA isn't supporting the WNBA for altruistic reasons, I can't see what's remotely criminal about that. It's probably a marketing gimmick. Perhaps it's not working and they are losing money. But it's their call and their money. It's not like the NBA franchises are being forced to subsidize the WNBA.

On topic, I don't really care, as you can imagine - and I'll always root for my friend Ticha, the best pass-first female point-guard ever and the Monarchs. But I'm all in favor if this means a new team in NE (not in Boston or MA)- Maine Attraction, as proposed by someone in the CB. D-League, WNBA, I don't care, just name that team. I'd buy a jersey immediately.

Also, of course any WNBA player would be destroyed in the NBA - like every WTA player would be destroyed in a ATP tournament. That doesn't mean that the games aren't funny or worth watching, if you like basketball. I see regularly games far worse than WNBS ones, just for the pleasure of watching the game. It's different, surely; but it's still enjoyable.

[connerhenry43]

it is bad enough we have a NHL team. no to the wnba.

[Tnerb02]

Lets get an arena football team !!!

Agreed 100% I would be a die hard Arena fan.

[davefromnatick]

As far as if or not its financially viable, don't worry about it.  I'm sure the owners aren't truly losing money on it in the big picture.   I'm sure they can trace NBA revenue back to WNBA expenditures.  If they were losing money with the venture they would dissolve the league (XFL, NFL Europe etc).

I'm going to take the easy way out and not search for a more concrete source because I thought this was common knowledge, but the NBA subsidizes the WNBA.  It does not make a profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNBA

Look under the "finance" section.

EDIT:  Better source - http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/04/25/story5.html

Profits are siphoned off from the NBA to support the WNBA.  So with that in mind, I don't think any talks of expansion are in order.

I understand the idea or role-models, but unless enough parents want to use the sport for just that purpose so that it can make money, it's not going to happen.  But many will shell out hundreds so they can go watch Hannah Montanah...

Excellent point.   I know that the operating costs of the WNBA are greater than the revenues, which are made up for by NBA subsidy.  That figure of 12 million is subsidy would break down to a shade under one million per WNBA/NBA pairing or more appropriately 400k per NBA franchise since the WNBA is owned by the league.

My point about the NBA not truly losing money lies in whether or not the NBA gains any fans by exposing younger girls to the WNBA.  Anybody who has attempted to take a family to a sporting event knows that it can run well over $125 per person for a moderately priced seat, food, souvenier shop and parking.  Assuming that the profit margin is 75% (an NBA jersey is less than $10 acquisition cost!!!!!  I puked when I heard that on ESPN radio) that would mean that each WNBA team would pay for itself if it attracted another 260 fans to its NBA affiliate per NBA home game!!!!!!  If you count league revenue for all teams that would be only 130 fans per NBA game!!!!!!  Disregard any revenue for ratings or outside of arena sales.  Those would just be icing on the cake for my analysis.

Also don't think for a second that owners like Donald Sterling, Paul Allen, Larry Miller, Mickey Arison and yes our own Wyc Grousbeck would just give 400k away each year as a cost of doing business.  I don't buy it.

[Neurotic Guy]

No, nor would I like a WNBA team in any city in America.

Ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm really not a fan and I hate the idea of an unsuccesful league being kept alive for purely sexist reasons.  If you are producing a product for which there are not enough consumers to support it, your business should fail.

Thankfully American society can boast the dual principles of supporting capitalism AND a social conscience.  Sometimes, a society (or even a business, frankly) makes purposeful sacrifices to advance principles that they see as important (or more important) than profit.  Examples are numerous, but sticking to topic, my childhood in the 60's had virtually no organized sports for girls.  It took the support of male athletics and even legislation (and I often do not support the need for government to intervene, BTW) for girls to gain the athletic options they have today. As father of 2 teenaged girls I can tell you that it makes a difference -- and they are not athletes per se, but thankfully can still experience a role in sports that is not solely about cheering for the boys.  

I am not suggesting that the WNBA is a great product with a long shelf life (I actually have no idea), however, I would not simply dismiss it for being carried for the time being by the powerful and profitable male league.

You have a solid point.  I would like to clarify, though, that I Think the WNBA is quite different from any sort of title IX scholastic situation.  If a young boy and a young girl both go to school, it is only fair that they both have a chance to participate in the same activities.  If it is public school, those tax dollars are not split by gender.  If it is private school, you pay the same tuition for your daughter.

However, the WNBA doesn't fall into that category.  These are not public funds.  If the NBA wants to subsidize the WNBA for some socially concious reason, that is their choice.  However, when we have cities like Seatlle having their team pulled from them for not being economically viable, it is almost criminal to pull profits from the league to support the WNBA.  And it sure sucks for fans of Seattle, or even for fans of the many profitable teams who are just a little bit less profitable because they are dragging the WNBA behind them.

Also, on the topic of title IX, while I wouldn't be so callous or pigheaded as to say women don't deserve to play sports, I've got a handful of male friends whose teams were disintigrated or underfunded to make room for an under-participated female team.  Obviously, this didn't serve them.

The question isn't as simple as "it should be" or "it shouldn't be" (well, if you ask me regarding the WNBA it is, but not title IX), but it isn't all glory and kumbaya.  Those funds have to come from somewhere.

Policy decisions are rarely simple as there is rarely such a decision that works for everyone -- where everyone wins in both the short and long run.  The NBAs decision to support the WNBA is likely based ultimately on bottom line but I would suspect that there is a voice or 2 with influence who suggest that promoting female professional sports has societal benefit.  For whatever reason, the NBA certainly is within their rights to decide their interest are served by supporting the WNBA.

I'll try to keep this from getting too close to a political discussion as I know that is not allowed here, so I'll just state that any decision that messes with a status quo will have outcomes experienced for some as a gain and for some as a loss.  The only point of view that I disdain is one which refuses to listen the other -- so I apreciate your point of view and by understanding that there are males who are hurt by title IX (as referenced in your post) I broaden my own perpsective.  It doesn't necessarily change my view about the greater good, however, it offers important information that should be understand and considered in the context of a good discussion or a decision-making process.

[Roy Hobbs]

it is bad enough we have a NHL team. no to the wnba.

I know it's easy to kick the NHL when it's down, but it's a lot of fun going to a Bruins game.  Unfortunately, they've out-priced their core fan base, but it's still entertaining live.