Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston

[timepiece33]

No, even if you figure in the comparitve houses being 33% less it's not a lower payment. And I already mentioned that the income tax would be a difference of about $1M in 3 years.

I've lived in Boston and a good comparable to San Antonio. Paid property taxes on high six/low seven figure homes in both environments.  My overall investment in my home in that comparable city (considering principal, interest, and taxes) was significantly lower in San Antonio.  It wasn't even close for similar square footage/neighborhood metrics. You seem reserved to ignore home prices differences (my mention of COLA) and focus solely on the property taxes per $100k, which is convenient, but leaves you with a woefully incomplete look.   

The point still stands.  He's already given up $2.5MM.  Let's hope that he's willing to give up another million (which I still feel is low) when he doesn't have to in order to accomplish the same goal.

As a Boston fan, I believe it is wishful thinking at best. 
   

Magette isn't going to make SA as likely to win a title as us. They still won't have anyone on their roster that can guard Kobe. The Lakers beat them in 5 and we beat the Lakers even though 3 of our starters were slowed by injuries during the series. We're returning all 5 starters from a dominant team.

Disagree
1. We are a year older
2. We appear to be losing a good portion of the bench that was instrumental in our win
3. Ginobli's health played a huge consideration in their loss
4. Adding an athletic 20+ PPG wing in place of Bowen makes a huge difference

They have won championships 3 out of 6 years.  Not worried about their ability to sell the ability to win championships.

IMO, going to San Antonio is a no brainer if he actually chooses to take a huge paycut.   We'll see, but if this is a basketball decision ... there is no comparison unless of course you only look at things with green color glasses.

[BballTim]

No, even if you figure in the comparitve houses being 33% less it's not a lower payment. And I already mentioned that the income tax would be a difference of about $1M in 3 years.

I've lived in Boston and a good comparable to San Antonio. Paid property taxes on high six/low seven figure homes in both environments.  My overall investment in my home in that comparable city (considering principal, interest, and taxes) was significantly lower in San Antonio.  It wasn't even close for similar square footage/neighborhood metrics. You seem reserved to ignore home prices differences (my mention of COLA) and focus solely on the property taxes per $100k, which is convenient, but leaves you with a woefully incomplete look.   

  You just keep changing your argument. I assume that if I refute any more of your COLA arguments you'll start explaining that I'm woefully incomplete in my point because I'm not considering heating bills or plowing costs.
   

Magette isn't going to make SA as likely to win a title as us. They still won't have anyone on their roster that can guard Kobe. The Lakers beat them in 5 and we beat the Lakers even though 3 of our starters were slowed by injuries during the series. We're returning all 5 starters from a dominant team.

Disagree
1. We are a year older
2. We appear to be losing a good portion of the bench that was instrumental in our win
3. Ginobli's health played a huge consideration in their loss
4. Adding an athletic 20+ PPG wing in place of Bowen makes a huge difference

They have won championships 3 out of 6 years.  Not worried about their ability to sell the ability to win championships.

IMO, going to San Antonio is a no brainer if he actually chooses to take a huge paycut.   We'll see, but if this is a basketball decision ... there is no comparison unless of course you only look at things with green color glasses.

  We're a year older, but we're not old. (Duncan's also aging, BTW). Our overall bench will probably be as good if not better than it was last year. The Spurs had problems with the Hornets (3 blowout losses) let alone the Lakers, who are also planning on improving. The Spurs are contenders, but we're more likely to win a title.

[timepiece33]

You just keep changing your argument. I assume that if I refute any more of your COLA arguments you'll start explaining that I'm woefully incomplete in my point because I'm not considering heating bills or plowing costs.

I haven't changed my argument once.  You, however, seem to be very open to disregarding HOUSING costs differences in the COLA discussion.  How difficult is it to comprehend a net housing payment (taxes included) is going to be considerably more in Boston than San Antonio for a similar house in a similar neighborhood? 

  We're a year older, but we're not old. (Duncan's also aging, BTW). Our overall bench will probably be as good if not better than it was last year. The Spurs had problems with the Hornets (3 blowout losses) let alone the Lakers, who are also planning on improving. The Spurs are contenders, but we're more likely to win a title.

If we lose Posey and House, how is our bench going to be better exactly?  Osmosis?

Last I check, we had problems with the Hawks and Cavs ... if you want to use the Spurs win against the Hornets against them, why not use those performances as some part of your consideration with the Celtics? I don't, because both teams WON those series. 

Personally, I believe adding a physical offensive player like Maggette puts more stress on Kobe defensively. Something he hasn't had to worry about with Bowen in that position.   In addition, I feel that it opens up the Spurs offense (specifically Maggette's ability to drive and create foul problems) and makes the Duncan mismatch more pronounced ALSO taking getting more space for Ginobli.  IMO, it creates matchup problems with the Lakers like we saw with Pierce's ability to do the same thing.   

In your opinion, we will be more likely to win a championship. With Maggette in tow and what appears to be the strong possibility of losing Posey, I believe Las Vegas will disagree with you.   

[BballTim]

You just keep changing your argument. I assume that if I refute any more of your COLA arguments you'll start explaining that I'm woefully incomplete in my point because I'm not considering heating bills or plowing costs.

I haven't changed my argument once.  You, however, seem to be very open to disregarding HOUSING costs differences in the COLA discussion.  How difficult is it to comprehend a net housing payment (taxes included) is going to be considerably more in Boston than San Antonio for a similar house in a similar neighborhood? 

  Please. When was the last time a player making that much money chose one team over another because of rent? If he buys a more expensive house, he'll also sell it for more when he moves on to another team.

  We're a year older, but we're not old. (Duncan's also aging, BTW). Our overall bench will probably be as good if not better than it was last year. The Spurs had problems with the Hornets (3 blowout losses) let alone the Lakers, who are also planning on improving. The Spurs are contenders, but we're more likely to win a title.

If we lose Posey and House, how is our bench going to be better exactly?  Osmosis?

  Doc spent the playoffs trying to wring good performances from PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. We can easily upgrade our backup center and pg spots (two spots generally seen as more important than sf, btw). We've drafted a couple of players. Powe and Davis will be a year older and better. If we don't sign Posey or Maggette we'll sign someone else who isn't as good, but we'll have less of people playing out of position (Powe at center, Posey at pf). Why wouldn't we be as good or better?

Last I check, we had problems with the Hawks and Cavs ... if you want to use the Spurs win against the Hornets against them, why not use those performances as some part of your consideration with the Celtics? I don't, because both teams WON those series.

  When we played the Hawks it was our first playoff series together as a team. It's not a shock that we struggled. Do you think if we'd played the Hawks after we played the Pistons that they'd have taken us to 7 games? If so, it's the same thing.

In your opinion, we will be more likely to win a championship. With Maggette in tow and what appears to be the strong possibility of losing Posey, I believe Las Vegas will disagree with you.   

  The same guys in Vegas who were ready to give the trophy to the Lakers without bothering to play the games? I'm quaking in my boots.

[timepiece33]

Please. When was the last time a player making that much money chose one team over another because of rent? If he buys a more expensive house, he'll also sell it for more when he moves on to another team.

How many major FA's have flocked to non tax or low tax states in recent memory?  You don't believe that players contemplate cost of living and tax components in their decisions in cap based sports.  OK.   

Name the last major FA that has left their team for a Northeastern or Midwestern City without being overpaid? 

If we don't sign Posey or Maggette we'll sign someone else who isn't as good, but we'll have less of people playing out of position (Powe at center, Posey at pf). Why wouldn't we be as good or better?

So we'll sign people that aren't as good, but we are going to be better.   OK.  That's rationale

The same guys in Vegas who were ready to give the trophy to the Lakers without bothering to play the games? I'm quaking in my boots.

Versus fans that will say anything to rationalize their teams dominance (like we'll sign less talented players and still have a better bench?)

[indeedproceed]

Please. When was the last time a player making that much money chose one team over another because of rent? If he buys a more expensive house, he'll also sell it for more when he moves on to another team.

How many major FA's have flocked to non tax or low tax states in recent memory?  You don't believe that players contemplate cost of living and tax components in their decisions in cap based sports.  OK.   

Name the last major FA that has left their team for a Northeastern or Midwestern City without being overpaid? 

If we don't sign Posey or Maggette we'll sign someone else who isn't as good, but we'll have less of people playing out of position (Powe at center, Posey at pf). Why wouldn't we be as good or better?

So we'll sign people that aren't as good, but we are going to be better.   OK.  That's rationale

The same guys in Vegas who were ready to give the trophy to the Lakers without bothering to play the games? I'm quaking in my boots.

Versus fans that will say anything to rationalize their teams dominance (like we'll sign less talented players and still have a better bench?)

Many atheletes have commented that not paying income tax in Fla was a factor in coming ot the Heat. Shaq comes to mind more signifigantly when he signed his extension.

[Who]

Many atheletes have commented that not paying income tax in Fla was a factor in coming ot the Heat. Shaq comes to mind more signifigantly when he signed his extension.

Our very own Doc Rivers also said it was a huge advantage when he was working for the Magic. It helped them to convince players to sign on board during free agency.

I'm pretty sure Tracy also spoke glowingly of it.

[CelticsFan12345]

Magette is a-freaking-mazing at scoring, but i want Posey back (his Defense and 3's all take over) Magette, plus Posey-2 rings, Magette-O rings

[BballTim]

Please. When was the last time a player making that much money chose one team over another because of rent? If he buys a more expensive house, he'll also sell it for more when he moves on to another team.

How many major FA's have flocked to non tax or low tax states in recent memory?  You don't believe that players contemplate cost of living and tax components in their decisions in cap based sports.  OK.   

Name the last major FA that has left their team for a Northeastern or Midwestern City without being overpaid?

  According to everyone on this board, that would be James Posey in 2007-2008.

If we don't sign Posey or Maggette we'll sign someone else who isn't as good, but we'll have less of people playing out of position (Powe at center, Posey at pf). Why wouldn't we be as good or better?

So we'll sign people that aren't as good, but we are going to be better.   OK.  That's rationale

  Because, according to you, the only position on the court that matters is small forward. If we improve our backups at C, PF, SG and PG but experience a dropoff in play for those 15 or so minutes that Pierce is on the bench then clearly we'll be the worse for it. To borrow a phrase, you have a woefully incomplete view of basketball, although your understanding of property value by region is top notch.

The same guys in Vegas who were ready to give the trophy to the Lakers without bothering to play the games? I'm quaking in my boots.

Versus fans that will say anything to rationalize their teams dominance (like we'll sign less talented players and still have a better bench?)

  That's right. People who consider the overall strength of the bench and not just who our backup small forward is are just irrational fans. How would you expect us to do without Posey? 45 wins and an early playoff exit?

[BballTim]

Please. When was the last time a player making that much money chose one team over another because of rent? If he buys a more expensive house, he'll also sell it for more when he moves on to another team.

How many major FA's have flocked to non tax or low tax states in recent memory?  You don't believe that players contemplate cost of living and tax components in their decisions in cap based sports.  OK.   

Name the last major FA that has left their team for a Northeastern or Midwestern City without being overpaid? 

If we don't sign Posey or Maggette we'll sign someone else who isn't as good, but we'll have less of people playing out of position (Powe at center, Posey at pf). Why wouldn't we be as good or better?

So we'll sign people that aren't as good, but we are going to be better.   OK.  That's rationale

The same guys in Vegas who were ready to give the trophy to the Lakers without bothering to play the games? I'm quaking in my boots.

Versus fans that will say anything to rationalize their teams dominance (like we'll sign less talented players and still have a better bench?)

Many atheletes have commented that not paying income tax in Fla was a factor in coming ot the Heat. Shaq comes to mind more signifigantly when he signed his extension.

  Did he say the same thing when he left Orlando for LA?

[timepiece33]

That's right. People who consider the overall strength of the bench and not just who our backup small forward is are just irrational fans. How would you expect us to do without Posey? 45 wins and an early playoff exit?

Did anyone ever say 45 wins and an early playoff exit?  Uhhh No.

Suggesting that the Spurs would get similar, if not better odds, than the Celtics if they add a 20+ PPG slasher like Maggette and the Celtics bench regresses is not that big of a leap. 

Suggesting that our bench will be improved without Posey, PJ Brown, and Tony Allen seems irrational to me.   Please explain the infinite wisdom that suggests a 6th man who projects to get close to as many minutes as our starting C and PG is labeled as unimportant?

Did he say the same thing when he left Orlando for LA?

No.  He started talking about the unique opportunities LA offered with regards to endorsements, which impacted his overall income.

[Smitty]

Timepiece,

Here is what you said:  "Suggesting that our bench will be improved without Posey, PJ Brown, and Tony Allen seems irrational to me.   Please explain the infinite wisdom that suggests a 6th man who projects to get close to as many minutes as our starting C and PG is labeled as unimportant?"

First, as much as I appreciate PJ's veteran influence, his playoff numbers were FAR from outstanding.  He had a 4.52 Efficiency Rating in the playoffs.

Second, TA played an average of 4.3 minutes in the playoffs and had a playoff Efficiency Rating of 1.13.

Third, although you didn't mention Cassell in the above quote, he will likely be replaced with a possible upgrade.  Sam had a 2.57 ER for the playoffs and shot 33% from the floor and 21.4% from long distance.

Fourth, as much as I appreciate Posey leadership, he still was an average 9.35 ER for the playoffs.  I do NOT want to lose him, BUT is he worth a 5-year full exception contract at his age.  NO!!!!!

We can clearly upgrade those first three spots and IF we can sign Maggette, we could upgrade Posey's slot for the long term.

That being said, there is a chance, rather a good likelihood, that we can and WILL improve our bench without those players you listed.

Peace,

Smitty

[BballTim]

That's right. People who consider the overall strength of the bench and not just who our backup small forward is are just irrational fans. How would you expect us to do without Posey? 45 wins and an early playoff exit?

Did anyone ever say 45 wins and an early playoff exit?  Uhhh No.

  According to you, I'm just an irrational fan wearing green colored glasses who will say anything to rationalize my team's dominance because I think the team will still be  the best team in the league without Posey. Clearly you must expect a significant dropoff if he leaves. I was just trying to gauge how far you expect us to fall.

Suggesting that our bench will be improved without Posey, PJ Brown, and Tony Allen seems irrational to me.   Please explain the infinite wisdom that suggests a 6th man who projects to get close to as many minutes as our starting C and PG is labeled as unimportant?

  Because it would be practically impossible to improve on PJ Brown, right?

  There are a ton of pgs better than Cassell on the market. There are plenty of centers better than Brown on the market. If we sign a better backup pg our offense will run smoother with Rondo on the bench. If we sign a better backup center we'll get better minutes than we got from Brown or from using undersized pfs at center. We should get better backup sg play, whether it's from Giddens or Tony Allen (note: we weren't discussing whether he was leaving or not, you just threw that in there to prop up your weak argument). Also note that if we get a better backup center that will reduce the number of minutes our power forwards play at center, which will probably reduce the number of minutes Posey plays at pf, which is his weakest position to begin with. The minutes that any sg get will also likely come from Posey and not Allen or Pierce. (another note: this is pretty much the same thing I said before in less detail which you, in your infinite wisdom, reduced to "we'll improve the team by replacing Posey with a weaker player").

[timepiece33]

We can clearly upgrade those first three spots and IF we can sign Maggette, we could upgrade Posey's slot for the long term.

Smitty,

People talk in generalities all day.   

I can point out that Roger Mason had a worse PER than Eddie House, Bonzi Wells struggled to crack 5, and Kurt Thomas was well below his average at below 10.  Several of these guys are mentioned as viable replacements from a salary structure to Posey.   

I agree if we sign Maggette, we will be better. View it as a long shot.  If we don't and Posey is gone, let's look at viable options rather than speaking in generalities.

Let's look at the available FA list and start talking about realistic signings that will improve our bench.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2008freeagents

You have the MLE (which you can split)
The LLE
Minimum Contracts
Non Birds Rights (House)
Player Resigning (Allen)

Come up with a better bench without Posey OR Maggette.

[Frontierboy]

i think Maggette would be a perfect fit for this team...... prior to this year, I've always though him and Pierce were identical players with the same type of attitude and reputation for being selfish. 

Pierce proved everyone wrong this year, why can't maggette do the same when he joins us?

Maggette is even the same age as Pierce was last year going into the season.