Author Topic: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston  (Read 84724 times)

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Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #135 on: July 05, 2008, 05:20:35 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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Where does he get more exposure?  The outside endorsement possibilities could be the deciding factor. 

Most exposure ... he probably could capitalize on his roots in Chicago OR Carolina.

Unless we give an agreement to trade Ray Allen, he's going to get more exposure in San Antonio being their 2nd scoring option (which he would).   It's a catch 22 though, because if Ray Allen is gone ... he gets more exposure in Boston

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #136 on: July 05, 2008, 06:05:10 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Property taxes for San Antonio are a lot higher than they are in Boston. I can't imagine that he's that concerned about housing prices. It's not like he can't afford a house. And housing prices make up a large percentage of the cost of living. I don't think the price of groceries or electricity or car insurance are going to scare him away either. The amount of money between Boston and San Antonio is much less than what he lost by opting out, and it's far less than what he's giving up to sign for the MLE anyways.

Not according to tax foundation research.  Plus, you aren't even contemplating average home values in comparable areas.   

Of course, that assumes he will actually purchase a home in this environment considering he lives in Chicago.   He might not.

The argument isn't that he can afford it.  Of course, he can afford it. So what.

The question is when comparing two winning situations, what is the comparative advantage that Boston has over San Antonio?

1. He'll get more minutes in San Antonio
2. He'll be viewed as one of the stars of that team as opposed to a guy off the bench
3. His money goes further in San Antonio
4. He won't be changing conferences

Are there any relative advantages to going to Boston vs. San Antonio?  Please provide some rather than saying he can afford it.

  The few websites that I checked about tax rates say that you're wrong about the tax rates. He'll get more time  in San Antonio. His money won't go noticeably farther. I doubt that he cares about changing conferences, especially if he lives in Chicago. And he's choosing between a top 3 team in the West and the top team in the league. He'll have a much better chance of winning a title with the Celts. He'll also be playing in a bigger market.

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #137 on: July 05, 2008, 06:10:45 PM »

Offline yupitsme

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same ole summed up

Update:
A Celtics source continued to insist that the team has made no formal offer to Maggette, the Boston Herald reports.

Recommendation:
The source said that the former Clipper is simply aware that the Celtics have a mid-level exception available. The other newspaper in town, the Boston Globe, reported an offer made and that Maggette is seriously considering it. However, the Celtics don't have a starting job for Maggette, who is being courted by several other teams that can.

 :P

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #138 on: July 05, 2008, 06:16:42 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Maggette isn't going to be SA's second option, thats either Manu or Duncan depending on your view of SA and their offense. He may even be number 4 behind Parker. The way I see it, he's the 4th option with us and in SA. The $$ is the same. The minutes will likely be similar (30 minutes in both cases). However he has a better shot of winning with Boston as Boston's competitors are Detroit and Cleveland. SA has Utah, NO and the Lakers to contend with not to mention potential up and comers in the Clippers and Portland. Boston's actually a pretty good option for him.

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #139 on: July 05, 2008, 06:19:01 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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For whatever it's worth the ESPNEWS news ticker currently has this running:

"Report: free agent F Corey Maggete considering offer from Celtics"

No other teams mentioned, just that. Don't know what they're basing that on.  My bet it's that their basing it on Spear's recent article, but who knows.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 06:27:34 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #140 on: July 05, 2008, 06:34:36 PM »

Offline Jon

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Fitting into the system or not (defensively and offensively) is 100% mental IMO. As long as Maggette is willing to accept a role and put team first, there would be no problem.


I agree with pretty much everything you said except what I quoted right here. Fitting into a system is not 100% mental. A slow lumbering center doesn't fit into Golden States system. Just like a slight fast center doesn't fit into Utah's system. A slasher doesn't really fit into Jim O'brien's system he wants three point shooters.

Other than that small point what you said was completely correct and I could not agree more.

To be completely honest with you guys, I don't think that the Celtics current offensive system is that much different than the system O'Brien ran.  The big difference right now is that the C's have vastly superior players now.  While I realize I'm over generalizing with that statement, this much at least holds true: in both systems spreading the floor to allow the stars of the team to take defensive players 1 on 1 was key. 

That's why I worry about Maggette.  I don't know if he shoots well enough to fit in here.  He improved last year, shooting a career best 38% from beyond the arc, on par with Posey.  However, in nearly 36 mpg he took only 203 three pointers.  Posey on the other hand, took 279 three pointers in only 25 mpg.  Eddie House only averaged 19 mpg, but took 298 three pointers. 

What does that mean?  Well, I think it calls into question how much Maggette can help.  I know some people have this romantic notion of him being a catalyst off the bench.  That's great, but let's be realistic.  If he's going to get more than 15 mpg, he's going to have to be on the court with 1, 2, or even all 3 members of our Big Three, so he isn't going to have a ton of plays run for him.  Nor should he.  He's not as good as they are.  So what he's going to be asked to do is what even Ray Allen gets asked to do a lot, spread the floor by planting yourself on the weakside behind the three point line. 

My question is, can he do it?  And that's a question on multiple levels.  Not only am I asking can he consistently knock down the three, I'm also asking can he mentally accept that he's not going to have his number called very often and that a good chunk of his offense might have to come from shooting open jumpers rather than breaking his man down?  I think Ray Allen struggled with that to some degree this year (he got asked to do this more than Garnett and Pierce), and Allen's a better player, a much better shooter, had more at stake given his age, and wasn't asked to take a pay cut or come off the bench. 

With Posey, we know he can accept coming off the bench, we know he can hit the weakside open three, and we know he fits in well with the defense.  Is Maggette the better 1-on-1 player?  Sure.  I'd take him if I was starting an expansion team.  But I don't think he fits in here that well. 

Look at the Lakers.  They had just as many weapons as the Celtics on the offensive end, if not more.  But the reason that the C's were able to shut them down was because Odom and Gasol can't shoot well.  Thus, they were able to pack the lane and keep Kobe on the perimeter.  Give Odom and Gasol even Garnett's range, and the C's can't do that, and Kobe is destroying them off the dribble. 

Also look how Rondo's lack of range could hurt the team.  Sure, sometimes he overcame that by hitting outside shots or being so great in creating offense that he made up for it, but you could clearly see how House and Cassell could open things up to penetrate by expanding the floor for everyone else.  I worry about a backcourt of Rondo and Maggette that a defense doesn't have to stay home on. 

Granted, Maggette isn't the end of the world.  He might prove me wrong.  But I think some people are treating this like a video game or a fantasy game.  This isn't just about stats.  This is about how everyone's game melds together.   

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #141 on: July 05, 2008, 06:38:56 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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The few websites that I checked about tax rates say that you're wrong about the tax rates. He'll get more time  in San Antonio. His money won't go noticeably farther. I doubt that he cares about changing conferences, especially if he lives in Chicago. And he's choosing between a top 3 team in the West and the top team in the league. He'll have a much better chance of winning a title with the Celts. He'll also be playing in a bigger market.

You can point to a percentage of overall value argument, but when the comparative house is 33% lower, you have a lower tax payment.   Couple that with no state income tax, I find it hard to believe that you see Boston and San Antonio as comparable cities in terms of cost of living. 

Will it be a major impact?  Who knows.  The guy is giving up $2.5MM. 

Maybe he is willing to give up another 1MM when he doesn't have too and not give a crap. I doubt it, but that is his prerogative.     

San Antonio has won 3 out of the past 6 championships AND he'll get considerably more minutes/emphasis in the San Antonio offense.

Based on the way Detroit and Cleveland played us vs. the Lakers, I'm not sold the upper end of the Western Division is better.  Sure, the lower end might be ... but who cares.  You add Maggette to San Antonio and they have similar odds to the Celtics in winning the championship.  They'd also have a similar composition to take advantage of the Lakers.   

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #142 on: July 05, 2008, 06:40:19 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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Maggette isn't going to be SA's second option, thats either Manu or Duncan depending on your view of SA and their offense. He may even be number 4 behind Parker. The way I see it, he's the 4th option with us and in SA. The $$ is the same. The minutes will likely be similar (30 minutes in both cases). However he has a better shot of winning with Boston as Boston's competitors are Detroit and Cleveland. SA has Utah, NO and the Lakers to contend with not to mention potential up and comers in the Clippers and Portland. Boston's actually a pretty good option for him.

In that system with Duncan in the interior and Parker's distribution skills, I'd be stunned if Maggette wasn't atleast #2 in scoring if not higher.   His game of drive and dish with the spacing created by Ginobli seems tailor made to him scoring around 20 a game.

I'm still waiting for any legitimate reason to why he'd choose Boston over San Antonio?  Hopefully it happens. 

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #143 on: July 05, 2008, 06:50:22 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Maggette isn't going to be SA's second option, thats either Manu or Duncan depending on your view of SA and their offense. He may even be number 4 behind Parker. The way I see it, he's the 4th option with us and in SA. The $$ is the same. The minutes will likely be similar (30 minutes in both cases). However he has a better shot of winning with Boston as Boston's competitors are Detroit and Cleveland. SA has Utah, NO and the Lakers to contend with not to mention potential up and comers in the Clippers and Portland. Boston's actually a pretty good option for him.

In that system with Duncan in the interior and Parker's distribution skills, I'd be stunned if Maggette wasn't atleast #2 in scoring if not higher.   His game of drive and dish with the spacing created by Ginobli seems tailor made to him scoring around 20 a game.

I'm still waiting for any legitimate reason to why he'd choose Boston over San Antonio?  Hopefully it happens. 

Because Boston is awesome and San Antonio isn't?

You know, if you analyze it a bit, the being a starter isn't as big of a deal as it appears. I'd bet he'd get just about the same playing time with the Celtics as he would with the Spurs. Now, if the "starter" label is that important to him, then sure... but if it's a minutes thing, I don't think that's an issue.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 07:10:18 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #144 on: July 05, 2008, 07:22:18 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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Because Boston is awesome and San Antonio isn't?

When you have money, all cities are pretty cool. Hell, why leave LA or not consider Golden State if you are looking for great cities.  Atleast there, you don't have to deal with the cold.

You know, if you analyze it a bit, the being a starter isn't as big of a deal as it appears. I'd bet he'd get just about the same playing time with the Celtics as he would with the Spurs. Now, if the "starter" label is that important to him, then sure... but if it's a minutes thing, I don't think that's an issue.

Kind of curious what level analysis do you have to do to suggest that he will get the same amount of playing time?

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the roster vs. Manu Ginobli and a 37 year old Bruce Bowen on the roster  and he is going to get the same amount of minutes?  How exactly?  Especially with Ginobli's versatility to play PG in a pinch?

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #145 on: July 05, 2008, 07:25:13 PM »

Offline Who

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Maggette isn't going to be SA's second option, thats either Manu or Duncan depending on your view of SA and their offense. He may even be number 4 behind Parker. The way I see it, he's the 4th option with us and in SA. The $$ is the same. The minutes will likely be similar (30 minutes in both cases). However he has a better shot of winning with Boston as Boston's competitors are Detroit and Cleveland. SA has Utah, NO and the Lakers to contend with not to mention potential up and comers in the Clippers and Portland. Boston's actually a pretty good option for him.

In that system with Duncan in the interior and Parker's distribution skills, I'd be stunned if Maggette wasn't atleast #2 in scoring if not higher.   His game of drive and dish with the spacing created by Ginobli seems tailor made to him scoring around 20 a game.

I'm still waiting for any legitimate reason to why he'd choose Boston over San Antonio?  Hopefully it happens. 

Because Boston is awesome and San Antonio isn't?

You know, if you analyze it a bit, the being a starter isn't as big of a deal as it appears. I'd bet he'd get just about the same playing time with the Celtics as he would with the Spurs. Now, if the "starter" lable is that important to him, then sure... but if it's a minutes thing, I don't think that's an issue.
I agree that San Antonio is a better situation and that Maggette will be the second or third scoring option for the majority of his minutes. It's down the the type of personnel Spurs have. Maggette will be starting alongside Duncan and Parker. Parker is a pure point guard who can effect and control a game without being a scorer, he'll give up some of his scoring opportunities to allow Maggette more room. Duncan already cedes a lot of ground to other scoring options so he'll likely keep a similar role to balance the floor (1 interior scorer versus 3 perimeter scorers). Maggette will start alongside of those two and get most of his opportunities there. Spurs have been desperate for an extra scoring option in that starting lineup to provide more balance in that unit. Manu's effectiveness coming off the bench helps their balance .... and that out of the three Manu probably would limit Maggette's scoring touches more than the other two.

Maggette will move back to most likely the fourth option late in games, especially in the playoffs, when the Spurs roll out a Parker-Manu-Maggette-Duncan-whoever lineup (can go big or go small whenever they want) ... but for majority of his minutes and the season he'll be a second or third option.

From a playing standpoint I think San Antonio is a lot better for him. He should have a lot more opportunities in that team. It also helps that San Antonio limit their trio's minutes which leaves a vacuum there that needs to be filled which Maggette can fill.

In Boston I just don't see how they fit in a fifth player (Rondo has the ball in his hands far more than Michael Finley) who needs the ball in his hands. Especially since Ray Allen's role is already fairly limited in terms of creating his own shot. Then you have Ray Allen and Paul Pierce taking the majority of the minutes on the wings. Especially in the playoffs when they're going to be playing 35-40 minutes a game ... and what would be a dubious lineup of Ray-Corey-Paul-KG-Rondo where the Celtics would lose a huge chunk of their rebounding/interior defense/toughness advantage that was so important to their playoff run. Maggette would have a good healthy role but I don't see it being equal to the role he could have in San Antonio.

For Maggette, I think San Antonio is a better fit.

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #146 on: July 05, 2008, 07:34:49 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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For whatever it's worth the ESPNEWS news ticker currently has this running:

"Report: free agent F Corey Maggete considering offer from Celtics"

No other teams mentioned, just that. Don't know what they're basing that on.  My bet it's that their basing it on Spear's recent article, but who knows.


They are basing it on the best way to get sports fans to go to their site and read the story. 

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #147 on: July 05, 2008, 07:38:46 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Because Boston is awesome and San Antonio isn't?

When you have money, all cities are pretty cool. Hell, why leave LA or not consider Golden State if you are looking for great cities.  Atleast there, you don't have to deal with the cold.

You know, if you analyze it a bit, the being a starter isn't as big of a deal as it appears. I'd bet he'd get just about the same playing time with the Celtics as he would with the Spurs. Now, if the "starter" label is that important to him, then sure... but if it's a minutes thing, I don't think that's an issue.

Kind of curious what level analysis do you have to do to suggest that he will get the same amount of playing time?

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the roster vs. Manu Ginobli and a 37 year old Bruce Bowen on the roster  and he is going to get the same amount of minutes?  How exactly?  Especially with Ginobli's versatility to play PG in a pinch?

First, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen will surely play less with Maggette in there, Doc won't hesitate to use him. He'll easily get 30 minutes of playing time switching between SG and SF.

As for San Antonio, Greg more than Doc likes his defensive players. He'll still give Bruce Bowen some burn. Greg also likes to keep his players fresh through the season. Are they through with Finley? That's a good question. Are they going to bench Udoka?

We still have to see how the Celtics final product is, but currently it'd be a 3 man rotation for the Celtics for the SG/SF position, with the rest of the minutes going to a rookie and Scal who has some fit with this particular roster. One injury to Pierce or Ray, and his minutes will shoot up drastically... with the type of depth the Spurs have, they'll go up, but I don't think as much.

I think the difference will be on the +/- 1-3 minutes at most... I see him getting 30-32 minutes in both situations.

For whatever it's worth the ESPNEWS news ticker currently has this running:

"Report: free agent F Corey Maggete considering offer from Celtics"

No other teams mentioned, just that. Don't know what they're basing that on.  My bet it's that their basing it on Spear's recent article, but who knows.


They are basing it on the best way to get sports fans to go to their site and read the story. 

They have no story on this.

Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #148 on: July 05, 2008, 07:42:02 PM »

Offline Chief

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For whatever it's worth the ESPNEWS news ticker currently has this running:

"Report: free agent F Corey Maggete considering offer from Celtics"

No other teams mentioned, just that. Don't know what they're basing that on.  My bet it's that their basing it on Spear's recent article, but who knows.


They are basing it on the best way to get sports fans to go to their site and read the story. 

Plus being out of Bristol, they are probably mostly Celtic fans.
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Re: Maggette says he could be willing to take pay cut to come to Boston
« Reply #149 on: July 05, 2008, 07:47:06 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The few websites that I checked about tax rates say that you're wrong about the tax rates. He'll get more time  in San Antonio. His money won't go noticeably farther. I doubt that he cares about changing conferences, especially if he lives in Chicago. And he's choosing between a top 3 team in the West and the top team in the league. He'll have a much better chance of winning a title with the Celts. He'll also be playing in a bigger market.

You can point to a percentage of overall value argument, but when the comparative house is 33% lower, you have a lower tax payment.   Couple that with no state income tax, I find it hard to believe that you see Boston and San Antonio as comparable cities in terms of cost of living. 

  No, even if you figure in the comparitve houses being 33% less it's not a lower payment. And I already mentioned that the income tax would be a difference of about $1M in 3 years.


Based on the way Detroit and Cleveland played us vs. the Lakers, I'm not sold the upper end of the Western Division is better.  Sure, the lower end might be ... but who cares.  You add Maggette to San Antonio and they have similar odds to the Celtics in winning the championship.  They'd also have a similar composition to take advantage of the Lakers.   

  Magette isn't going to make SA as likely to win a title as us. They still won't have anyone on their roster that can guard Kobe. The Lakers beat them in 5 and we beat the Lakers even though 3 of our starters were slowed by injuries during the series. We're returning all 5 starters from a dominant team.