Celtics are holding a huge chip.

[JSD]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

The decision should come in 2009 though, after hopefully our back-to-back championship.

For right or wrong, I have a hard time believing that Ainge trades Allen after back to back championships.  And who can blame him?  What type of message would that send to Pierce and Garnett about the direction of the franchise?  What does that say to a guy like Rondo looking to re-sign a long term extension?  What does that say to potential free agents looking to come in as the Big Three leave? 

Personally, I'd rather see them re-up Ray, give him another year or two with Pierce and Garnett, continue to develop the young talent, then either try to trade all three of them at the end, or let all three expire and simply sign free agents to replace them. 

For as much as Red gets criticized for not trading the Big Three around '90, he didn't because he didn't want to get a reputation for a franchise that did that.  Moreover, the deaths of Bias and Lewis had more to do with the decline of the franchise than not trading away the Big Three.  The Big Three could have rode off into the sunset together and the C's still would have been good had those two lived.  So we don't necessarily need to trade anyone to segue to a bright future. 

I agree it will be very difficult to trade Ray if we go back to back.

[Robb]

Michael Redd is available THIS offseason.  If we're ever going to deal one of the Big Three, then this offseason, and for this player is the ideal situation.

One thing, though, is that Redd is going to be 29 next month, so even though that's four years younger than Ray, he's not the spring chicken I thought he was.

Also, with Bosh, Wade and LeBron, teams are clearing cap room to sign them outright.  I don't think anyone is considering a sign and trade at this point.  I remember the theory that LeBron taking the deal that could expire earlier was more to put pressure on Cleveland to put some talent around him, so why would he want to be signed and traded instead of signed?  An extra year?  It's not like LeBron is ever going to go hungry.  He could lose an arm and still make max money. 

No, it seems like there's even the possibility that it might even benefit him to sign a shorter contract so that each year when they reset the salary cap, the "max" deal will be higher.

Obviously, I don't think this applies in the same degree to Bosh or Wade, but it seems to me that they could have their pick of their destinations, so why sign and trade?  I think if they hold out for money and years this time around, then why try to get the leverage when you signed the shorter deal?

Then again, with all that yuan that will be rolling into Brooklyn shortly, what's to stop the Nets from signing two of those three?  Or signing one of those three and then dealing for another?

[BudweiserCeltic]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

I don't think there is any question about it.

"AS BOTH A Boston player and executive, Ainge has not been afraid of the risks involved in acting boldly. Back in 1988, when he was one of the Celtics ' backcourt starters, he was seated at a table with Bird, forward Kevin McHale and team president Red Auerbach during the organization's Christmas party. At the time Boston was reportedly considering trades that would have sent Bird and McHale to the Indiana Pacers and Dallas Mavericks , respectively. "Look at these two guys," Ainge told Auerbach , over the surrounding conversations of other players and their families. "Larry's got casts on his feet [from surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels], Kevin's got a screw in his foot [to repair a stress fracture]—you've got to trade these guys." Everyone laughed at Ainge's typical audacity, but he wasn't joking. "I would have traded Larry Bird ," he insists today."
(http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108251/index.htm)

The difference is that Larry and McHale were screwed up health-wise... different circumstances. If Ray gets reinjured or some of our stars get injured, then all bets are off.  Their production and impact on the floor will also be taken into consideration, but it's not a certainty that players will get traded just for the sake of trading them towards the end of their careers.

[Bankshot]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

What about Joe Johnson?  Isn't he a free agent around this time as well.  I think he would be the best fit.

[Big Ticket]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

A $21 million expiring contract would put just about any team into a favorable cap situation.  An even sooner debate would be Pierce, however, who will be making $21 mil in the final year of his deal, and a few months shy of his 34th birthday.... what kind of deal will he be looking for?  I'm sure the Celtics would make it a huge priority to keep him in green, but what if he's looking for a 5-6 year near-max deal?

If all sentimental aspects were thrown out the window, the right moves would be to trade Allen's expiring deal, Pierce's expiring deal, and then KG's expiring deal for either a superstar(s) ready to move or a package(s) of young talents (assuming these are available at those times, and that there is no new rule to lessen the value of expiring deals).

[BdaBostonBum]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

What about Joe Johnson?  Isn't he a free agent around this time as well.  I think he would be the best fit.

I posted this list in another thread but i think it'll be apropriate here as well...The not complete FA class of 2010:

LeBron James    CLE    player option
Dirk Nowitzki    DAL    player option
Josh Howard    DAL    player option
Dwyane Wade    MIA    player option
Michael Redd    MIL    player option
Amare StoudemirePHX    player option
Joe Johnson    ATL    unrestricted
Ben Wallace    CLE    unrestricted
Marcus Camby    DEN    unrestricted
Richard HamiltonDET    unrestricted
Amir Johnson    DET    unrestricted
Antonio McDyess DET    unrestricted
Tracy McGrady    HOU    unrestricted
Jermaine O'Neal IND    unrestricted
Darko Milicic    MEM    unrestricted
Steve Nash    PHX    unrestricted
Shaquille O'NealPHX    unrestricted
Manu Ginobili    S.A.    unrestricted
Carlos Boozer    UTA    unrestricted
Mehmet Okur    UTA    unrestricted

[BdaBostonBum]

Really,  though, its not an issue of whose a free agent, but what teams wants to clear cap space for those FAs.  Those teams would be the targets for trading Ray

[Robb]

The difference is that Larry and McHale were screwed up health-wise... different circumstances. If Ray gets reinjured or some of our stars get injured, then all bets are off.  Their production and impact on the floor will also be taken into consideration, but it's not a certainty that players will get traded just for the sake of trading them towards the end of their careers.

I'd say the difference is that you're not getting anything back for a hurt Ray Allen.  If Ray Allen gets hurt or drops off we just have dead money and eventually an expiring contract.  Michael Redd gives a lot of that same production.  I don't think he's as good as Ray Allen, but their statistical production and areas of expertise on the court are closely related.  I don't know the intricacies of their games to say, however.

If they're not planning on dealing the Big Three, then they're planning on drafting in the high lottery in the first half of the 2010s.  I don't think that's a bad thing.  We saw what it was like to win a title after trading for our big talent, now let's see what it's like to win a title after drafting and developing them. 

Regardless of the route they take, I'm much more optimistic of what this organization can accomplish than I was a few months ago.

[JSD]

Michael Redd is available THIS offseason.  If we're ever going to deal one of the Big Three, then this offseason, and for this player is the ideal situation.

One thing, though, is that Redd is going to be 29 next month, so even though that's four years younger than Ray, he's not the spring chicken I thought he was.

Also, with Bosh, Wade and LeBron, teams are clearing cap room to sign them outright.  I don't think anyone is considering a sign and trade at this point.  I remember the theory that LeBron taking the deal that could expire earlier was more to put pressure on Cleveland to put some talent around him, so why would he want to be signed and traded instead of signed?  An extra year?  It's not like LeBron is ever going to go hungry.  He could lose an arm and still make max money. 

No, it seems like there's even the possibility that it might even benefit him to sign a shorter contract so that each year when they reset the salary cap, the "max" deal will be higher.

Obviously, I don't think this applies in the same degree to Bosh or Wade, but it seems to me that they could have their pick of their destinations, so why sign and trade?  I think if they hold out for money and years this time around, then why try to get the leverage when you signed the shorter deal?

Then again, with all that yuan that will be rolling into Brooklyn shortly, what's to stop the Nets from signing two of those three?  Or signing one of those three and then dealing for another?

Robb, I think you are misunderstanding the thread. My point is because other teams are going to look to bid on these players, they will be seeking a an expiring contract such as Ray Allens. The most likely scenario's

1) a team trades a couple of midlevel contracts, young talent and/or draft picks

2) A team trades a underachieving max contract with 2 or 3 years remaining and combines it with young talent and/or draft picks.

[JSD]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

I don't think there is any question about it.

"AS BOTH A Boston player and executive, Ainge has not been afraid of the risks involved in acting boldly. Back in 1988, when he was one of the Celtics ' backcourt starters, he was seated at a table with Bird, forward Kevin McHale and team president Red Auerbach during the organization's Christmas party. At the time Boston was reportedly considering trades that would have sent Bird and McHale to the Indiana Pacers and Dallas Mavericks , respectively. "Look at these two guys," Ainge told Auerbach , over the surrounding conversations of other players and their families. "Larry's got casts on his feet [from surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels], Kevin's got a screw in his foot [to repair a stress fracture]—you've got to trade these guys." Everyone laughed at Ainge's typical audacity, but he wasn't joking. "I would have traded Larry Bird ," he insists today."
(http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108251/index.htm)

The difference is that Larry and McHale were screwed up health-wise... different circumstances. If Ray gets reinjured or some of our stars get injured, then all bets are off.  Their production and impact on the floor will also be taken into consideration, but it's not a certainty that players will get traded just for the sake of trading them towards the end of their careers.

It's not "trading players for the sake of trading players" its insirting youth and potential into an aging ball club that wants to keep the competetive window open as long as possible. Even if that means taking a step back for a season to take two steps forward the next.

[JSD]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

A $21 million expiring contract would put just about any team into a favorable cap situation.  An even sooner debate would be Pierce, however, who will be making $21 mil in the final year of his deal, and a few months shy of his 34th birthday.... what kind of deal will he be looking for?  I'm sure the Celtics would make it a huge priority to keep him in green, but what if he's looking for a 5-6 year near-max deal?

If all sentimental aspects were thrown out the window, the right moves would be to trade Allen's expiring deal, Pierce's expiring deal, and then KG's expiring deal for either a superstar(s) ready to move or a package(s) of young talents (assuming these are available at those times, and that there is no new rule to lessen the value of expiring deals).

The Celtics will let one of these deals expire to ensure future flexability for the young talent they aquired through the other two expiring trades that took place. I think PP will be that guy. He exprires a couple of months away from 34 and will get a 3 year deal worth around 25 million.

[Harris34]

It's not good business sense, but my love for Kg, PP, and Ray would prevent me from ever trading them. When their contracts expire, and they are willing to take what Danny thinks they are worth, than I want them here as long as they want to be here.

[JSD]

The difference is that Larry and McHale were screwed up health-wise... different circumstances. If Ray gets reinjured or some of our stars get injured, then all bets are off.  Their production and impact on the floor will also be taken into consideration, but it's not a certainty that players will get traded just for the sake of trading them towards the end of their careers.

I'd say the difference is that you're not getting anything back for a hurt Ray Allen.  If Ray Allen gets hurt or drops off we just have dead money and eventually an expiring contract.  Michael Redd gives a lot of that same production.  I don't think he's as good as Ray Allen, but their statistical production and areas of expertise on the court are closely related.  I don't know the intricacies of their games to say, however.

If they're not planning on dealing the Big Three, then they're planning on drafting in the high lottery in the first half of the 2010s.  I don't think that's a bad thing.  We saw what it was like to win a title after trading for our big talent, now let's see what it's like to win a title after drafting and developing them. 

Regardless of the route they take, I'm much more optimistic of what this organization can accomplish than I was a few months ago.

I don't see that happening at all (rebuilding).

The goal for the Celtics going forward will be in the championship mix year in and year out and with Ray, Paul and KG expiring consecutively they are set up to do that.

[Roy Hobbs]

Assuming Ray is playing at a high level, what's wrong with giving him an extension, and then keeping the option open of trading him in a future year? 

If he's still the same Ray Allen in two years, I'm not sure I'd want to bring in a new guy to replace him, regardless of whether they're younger or not.

[johnnyrondo]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

What about Joe Johnson?  Isn't he a free agent around this time as well.  I think he would be the best fit.

Which makes me wonder if we had offered the #5 last yr to Atlanta if we could of gotten him then. The Hawks would of had picks #3 and #5 then.