Celtics are holding a huge chip.

[zerophase]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

I don't think there is any question about it.

"AS BOTH A Boston player and executive, Ainge has not been afraid of the risks involved in acting boldly. Back in 1988, when he was one of the Celtics ' backcourt starters, he was seated at a table with Bird, forward Kevin McHale and team president Red Auerbach during the organization's Christmas party. At the time Boston was reportedly considering trades that would have sent Bird and McHale to the Indiana Pacers and Dallas Mavericks , respectively. "Look at these two guys," Ainge told Auerbach , over the surrounding conversations of other players and their families. "Larry's got casts on his feet [from surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels], Kevin's got a screw in his foot [to repair a stress fracture]—you've got to trade these guys." Everyone laughed at Ainge's typical audacity, but he wasn't joking. "I would have traded Larry Bird ," he insists today."
(http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108251/index.htm)

ehh, i think thats okay though. i mean, unless kg wins another championship with another team, he'll always be remembered as a celtic in my mind. he's the type of player that would indeed take a pay check cut to stay in boston.

[cdif911]

ehh, i think thats okay though. i mean, unless kg wins another championship with another team, he'll always be remembered as a celtic in my mind. he's the type of player that would indeed take a pay check cut to stay in boston.

when you're banking 20 mil a year, a pay cut doesn't hurt as much though does it =)

[Robb]

Robb, I think you are misunderstanding the thread. My point is because other teams are going to look to bid on these players, they will be seeking a an expiring contract such as Ray Allens. The most likely scenario's

1) a team trades a couple of midlevel contracts, young talent and/or draft picks

2) A team trades a underachieving max contract with 2 or 3 years remaining and combines it with young talent and/or draft picks.

Ahhh.  I thought the suggestion was like a three way deal with Ray's expiring contract going to the team getting rid of one of the 2010 Free Agents.  Instead the suggestion is dealing him the year before the 2010 Free Agents so they'll get cap room.  Sorry 'bout that.

I don't see that happening at all (rebuilding).

The goal for the Celtics going forward will be in the championship mix year in and year out and with Ray, Paul and KG expiring consecutively they are set up to do that.

I think there are two ways to look at the Big Three.  One camp wants them traded while they're still productive and their value is high so that we can continue to contend whereas another wants them to be resigned and retire as Celtics.  I can see the logic on both sides. 

I think the second camp also expects them to take less money and diminished roles as they age, but I wonder how often that happens in the NBA?  Is the norm Reggie Miller/Alonzo Mourning or is it Chris Webber/Stephon Marbury?  Do star players wind down gradually or blow up spectacularly?

I don't know what they'll do, but I have confidence that they'll do the right thing.

[JSD]

oops

[JSD]

Assuming Ray is playing at a high level, what's wrong with giving him an extension, and then keeping the option open of trading him in a future year? 

If he's still the same Ray Allen in two years, I'm not sure I'd want to bring in a new guy to replace him, regardless of whether they're younger or not.

   Roy, the timing of Ray Allen’s deal expiration could not be better as far as maximizing what you could back. Do you not agree?

[JSD]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

What about Joe Johnson?  Isn't he a free agent around this time as well.  I think he would be the best fit.

Joe Johnson would be an another incentive for a team to want to get under the cap for the summer of 2010. That increases the value Ray Allen's expiring deal even more.

Celtics obtaining JJ is unrealistic because we would still be well over the cap at that time with no incentive for Atlanta to sign and trade.

[JSD]

Problem is, who do you want to come back? Probably another scorer/shooter that ice cold like Ray. Who are those guys?

Mike Miller (kinda) expires 2010
Micheal Redd exp 2011
Kevin Martin exp 2012
Vince Carter (no thanks) exp 2012
Tracy McGrady exp 2010

Most teams with sg's priced around Ray's price tag would not let anyone pry them from their cold dead hands. Of the guys above, Micheal Redd is probably the best option. Kevin Martin is the guy I want tho

Course this is 2010 we're talkin about....

What about Joe Johnson?  Isn't he a free agent around this time as well.  I think he would be the best fit.

Which makes me wonder if we had offered the #5 last yr to Atlanta if we could of gotten him then. The Hawks would of had picks #3 and #5 then.

With all due respect, we won a championship with Ray Allen and who knows if we would have with JJ

[JSD]

this gets me thinking... will kg ever be traded again?

I don't think there is any question about it.

"AS BOTH A Boston player and executive, Ainge has not been afraid of the risks involved in acting boldly. Back in 1988, when he was one of the Celtics ' backcourt starters, he was seated at a table with Bird, forward Kevin McHale and team president Red Auerbach during the organization's Christmas party. At the time Boston was reportedly considering trades that would have sent Bird and McHale to the Indiana Pacers and Dallas Mavericks , respectively. "Look at these two guys," Ainge told Auerbach , over the surrounding conversations of other players and their families. "Larry's got casts on his feet [from surgery to remove bone spurs in both heels], Kevin's got a screw in his foot [to repair a stress fracture]—you've got to trade these guys." Everyone laughed at Ainge's typical audacity, but he wasn't joking. "I would have traded Larry Bird ," he insists today."
(http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1108251/index.htm)

ehh, i think thats okay though. i mean, unless kg wins another championship with another team, he'll always be remembered as a celtic in my mind. he's the type of player that would indeed take a pay check cut to stay in boston.

His track record might contradict that statement but as he's gotten older and made close or over 200 Million so maybe he would take a dramatic pay cut for his final years. Or maybe he goes back to Sota where Jefferson and Love are starting to go deep into the playoffs? Hmm...

[JSD]

Robb, I think you are misunderstanding the thread. My point is because other teams are going to look to bid on these players, they will be seeking a an expiring contract such as Ray Allens. The most likely scenario's

1) a team trades a couple of midlevel contracts, young talent and/or draft picks

2) A team trades a underachieving max contract with 2 or 3 years remaining and combines it with young talent and/or draft picks.

Ahhh.  I thought the suggestion was like a three way deal with Ray's expiring contract going to the team getting rid of one of the 2010 Free Agents.  Instead the suggestion is dealing him the year before the 2010 Free Agents so they'll get cap room.  Sorry 'bout that.

I don't see that happening at all (rebuilding).

The goal for the Celtics going forward will be in the championship mix year in and year out and with Ray, Paul and KG expiring consecutively they are set up to do that.

I think there are two ways to look at the Big Three.  One camp wants them traded while they're still productive and their value is high so that we can continue to contend whereas another wants them to be resigned and retire as Celtics.  I can see the logic on both sides. 

I think the second camp also expects them to take less money and diminished roles as they age, but I wonder how often that happens in the NBA?  Is the norm Reggie Miller/Alonzo Mourning or is it Chris Webber/Stephon Marbury?  Do star players wind down gradually or blow up spectacularly?

I don't know what they'll do, but I have confidence that they'll do the right thing.

Yes, He is valuable to other teams looking to free up cap space and make a run at 2010 class.

[JSD]

Robb, I think you are misunderstanding the thread. My point is because other teams are going to look to bid on these players, they will be seeking a an expiring contract such as Ray Allens. The most likely scenario's

1) a team trades a couple of midlevel contracts, young talent and/or draft picks

2) A team trades a underachieving max contract with 2 or 3 years remaining and combines it with young talent and/or draft picks.

Ahhh.  I thought the suggestion was like a three way deal with Ray's expiring contract going to the team getting rid of one of the 2010 Free Agents.  Instead the suggestion is dealing him the year before the 2010 Free Agents so they'll get cap room.  Sorry 'bout that.

I don't see that happening at all (rebuilding).

The goal for the Celtics going forward will be in the championship mix year in and year out and with Ray, Paul and KG expiring consecutively they are set up to do that.

I think there are two ways to look at the Big Three.  One camp wants them traded while they're still productive and their value is high so that we can continue to contend whereas another wants them to be resigned and retire as Celtics.  I can see the logic on both sides. 

I think the second camp also expects them to take less money and diminished roles as they age, but I wonder how often that happens in the NBA?  Is the norm Reggie Miller/Alonzo Mourning or is it Chris Webber/Stephon Marbury?  Do star players wind down gradually or blow up spectacularly?

I don't know what they'll do, but I have confidence that they'll do the right thing.

Webber and Marbury signed their deals when they were still marquee players.

 Once PP, KG and RA expire from their current deals they will not demand close to the amount they are getting now. They will all be in the 6 - 10 Million ranges for the rest of the way.

[Yakmanev]

Assuming Ray is playing at a high level, what's wrong with giving him an extension, and then keeping the option open of trading him in a future year? 

If he's still the same Ray Allen in two years, I'm not sure I'd want to bring in a new guy to replace him, regardless of whether they're younger or not.

   Roy, the timing of Ray Allen’s deal expiration could not be better as far as maximizing what you could back. Do you not agree?

Its best to just keep Ray Allen. Look at what Minnesota got for him when they traded him on draft night (Marbury)

Look at what Milwaukee got (Payton)

Look at what Seattle got

Doesn't look like he has ever brought much in return, which is weird. But it's enough to say just let him retire here.

[paintitgreen]

Well, Payton was actually still a nasty player when he was traded for Allen. He was coming off an All-NBA Second Team, and averaging 21, 9, 5 and 2 steals the year the trade went down. Milwaukee also got Desmond Mason, who at the time was a 25 year old Sixth Man averaging 14 points, 6.5 rebounds and 2 assists. So it was pretty good return actually.

But aside from that, I don't see the chip being that valuable. Very few teams are going to be making runs at the James/Bosh/Wade trio - New York, New Jersey, Cleveland, Toronto, Miami, maybe one or two others. So, most of the teams mentioned, including Milwaukee, are not gonna bother, not to mention they're not going to be looking to trade established good players. They're going to need those players in place as an incentive to draw those All-Stars with the chance at a ring. If it's just money, they can get more staying with their teams. So Atlanta trading Joe Johnson or Milwaukee trading Redd might help their cap room but would ruin any chances they had to get one of those free agents. Realistically, you're looking at a guy like Vince Carter as somebody you could get. Unless Miami is convinced Wade is going to bolt and gives him to Boston for Ray and a couple of young guys we have. But that's pretty doubtful. 

[Jon]

My biggest fear is potentially eating away at potential championships in the name of rebuilding.  If you trade Ray, is there an adjustment year with the new players we take on?  If so, that's another year for Pierce and Garnett to decline/get hurt. 

Furthermore, who's to say if a Michael Redd or Joe Johnson or any guy like that would be willing to mesh with Pierce and Garnett and sacrifice stats to win a title?  Not every player is willing to do that. 

I get that people don't want to go through another 22 year lull; however, keep in mind how tough it is to get here.  Look at a team like the Knicks, last won in, what, '73?  They built a contender in the '90s, made it to the Finals, but never won.  Look at the Phoenix Suns.  They built a contender in the '90s with Barkley and KJ and then again this decade with Nash and Stoudemire.  They certainly didn't win in the '90s and it looks unlikely they'll do it with this current group.  So my point is that we shouldn't be in a rush to get to the next phase of things.  Ainge could build a nice new team, but they might end up being the next Suns, Knicks, Kings, Mavericks, Jazz, or any of the other near-great teams that never won a title. 

The whole point of rebuilding is to win a title.  We're already there, we shouldn't be looking to break it up. 

[RockinRyA]

can there be a scenario that the big three take on a much much lesser contract, play off the bench, be that veteran support we once got from guys like pj, then retire as celtics?

[cordialb]

My ideal situation is that we find a ray to resign ray at a reduced price, or if we trade his contract, he comes back to us the next year.  Then when PP/KG's contracts are up, and after winning 3 titles in a row, then they all agree they have made their money and agree to sign for like 2 million each and sign some young stars to help the big 3 continue to win.

Far fetched?.....perhaps.  Me, a dreamer?.....perhaps.  But after this year, this team has shown me anything is possible.