Author Topic: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?  (Read 18040 times)

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Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« on: June 25, 2008, 12:19:19 PM »

Offline Farid33

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Paul Pierce best small forward in the NBA?
Paul Pierce has arrived. It may have taken him ten years longer than more heralded players like Lebron, or even his own teammate Kevin Garnett. But nevertheless, and sometimes despite even himself, Paul Pierce is now suddenly considered to be an NBA player of the highest caliber. In fact if you take Lebron out of the equation(does he really have a position?) Paul Pierce just might be the best small forward in the entire NBA. That statement on the surface and considering the timing of such an assertion, might seem a bit reactionary. Because, lets face it, no one outside of a boston sports bar was saying anything remotely close to that about Pierce even just one year ago. But, here we are just one year later; a prolific playoffs and finals later, and Pierce has not so subtlely inserted himself into the debate. What intrigued me most by this idea was not necessarily Pierce but everyone else. If Pierce isn’t the best small forward in the game, AND we agree that Lebron is a player who defies classification in the traditional sense(all one has to do is watch one of the seven games the Cavliers played against the Celtics, and you will see just how little he resembles a small forward, and how much he resembles some sort of Jason Kidd–Charles Barkley hybrid, but I digress), Who is? The contenders in no particular order:

Carmelo Anthony—Needs to grow up a bit(on and off the court). Defense and Leadership sorely lacking.

T-Mac—One of the best scorers in the league—Can’t get out of the first round(Pierce did it on two occasions with teams a lot worse than what T-Mac has been running with) Leadership and Defense lacking also.

Ron Artest—Do I need to even bring him up?

Richard Jefferson—Has been to the finals twice…has lost in the finals twice…incomplete player on several levels. Toughness a big question here.

Tayshaun Prince—2007 conference finals anyone---enough said.

Andre Iguodala—Maybe someday. But needs to show up in the playoffs a lot more than he did this year.

Shawn Marion—Probably a power forward, but even so anyone who wants off a playoff team so he can be the “man” is never going to be the best at anything.

Luol Deng—Great Defender, suspect everywhere else—also seemingly took giant step backward this season.

Gerald Wallace—Good player, but certainly not great.

Kevin Durant—Probably a very tall shooting guard, but still needs lots of seasoning, and a few pounds.

Caron Butler—A solid contender down the road. As of now he is almost a mirror image of the Paul Pierce of a few years ago. Needs to improve defense, shooting, and rebounding. But he does continue to improve every year and should be making deep runs into the playoffs for years to come.

There isn’t a complete player in the whole bunch. Paul Pierce on the other hand has established, in his tenth season no less, that he is a complete player. Here’s a guy who covers your best player, rebounds, drives the lane with abandon, and is a pretty good passer. He can also shoot mid-range, from three, and shot 85% from the line on the season. He can face you up, or back you down. He can finish strong in traffic, or smoothly navigate said traffic with effortless spins for lay-ups. He is tough as nails, exemplified by his 11 stab wounds that didn’t even make him miss a preseason game, and the fact he has only one season in which he played in less than seventy games(and to be honest that one season did come last year when the Celtics weren’t exactly trying to win). What stands out most about Pierce is his ability to not only embrace the pressure moments, but to grab them and make those moments his. There is no other player who can say that they stared down the two best players in the league, and then beat them at their own game. Pierce is obviously not without fault. He can get jump shot happy, and even now still has the occasional immature flare-up(see Hawks series this year). But the difference between Pierce and the players listed above is that they might possess one or two or three of his myriad attributes, but not one of them can lay claim to them all. The more you think about it the more sense it makes. It is not really a question of whether Paul Pierce is the best small forward in the NBA? The question is, how can he not be?


Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 12:21:07 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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You can't take out the best SF just to say Pierce is the best.



Lebron is the best SF.


Pierce is number 2.

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 12:22:57 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Well definitely LeBron is better.   But how about Dirk?  He's SF right?  I think most people would put Dirk above Pierce.

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 12:25:00 PM »

Offline Jon

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Though I probably wouldn't seriously make this case, I think an argument could be made that Pierce may have the edge on LeBron now because of his superior outside shot.  As the Celtic defense showed, you can make LeBron an ineffective scorer by keeping him on the perimeter.  The same can't be said of Pierce. 

Now of course LeBron has numerous gifts that Pierce doesn't, but in terms of being able to shut him down offensively, Pierce may have the edge.  And when you consider where Pierce is in terms of defense, well maybe there is a case for Pierce as the best SF in basketball, at least right this second. 

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 12:26:14 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Well definitely LeBron is better.   But how about Dirk?  He's SF right?  I think most people would put Dirk above Pierce.


Dirk is a better stat hanger in the regular season. 


but Pierce is the guy that overcame a good physical defense to be the best player on the team in a series deciding game. 



Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 12:26:51 PM »

Offline Jon

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Well definitely LeBron is better.   But how about Dirk?  He's SF right?  I think most people would put Dirk above Pierce.

Not Dirk.  Whether he's a SF or not, he's soft and a choke artist.  He's had the teams to get it done, and he hasn't.  Enough said. 

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 12:27:02 PM »

Offline crownsy

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yea, you can't take out lebron to make him the best. doesn't work that way.

I'd say he's clearly 2 now though, specificly because of his defense.

before his new defenisve intensity, i would have put him 4th, behind melo and prince.

but with prince's declining offensive ability, and pierce able to beat his defense, he drops. and melo doesn't play defense.

so, i'd say pierce is soildly number 2 now on any impartial voters list  ;D

as to him being better than lebron right now, i still don't see it. lebron was also very contanable because we have the best defense in the NBA. if he got by paul he ran smack into KG. if pierce got by lebron he ran smack into side show bob.

advantage: the captain hehe.
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Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 12:27:30 PM »

Offline billb3

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Don't forget Hedo, he put up big time numbers in the playoffs...

17.5ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5apg

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 12:27:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Though I probably wouldn't seriously make this case, I think an argument could be made that Pierce may have the edge on LeBron now because of his superior outside shot.  As the Celtic defense showed, you can make LeBron an ineffective scorer by keeping him on the perimeter.  The same can't be said of Pierce. 

Now of course LeBron has numerous gifts that Pierce doesn't, but in terms of being able to shut him down offensively, Pierce may have the edge.  And when you consider where Pierce is in terms of defense, well maybe there is a case for Pierce as the best SF in basketball, at least right this second. 

That's not correct.   Pierce is my favorite player in the league... but LeBron is an entirely different level.  

As much as people want to compare Pierce's offensive stats vs LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs it's just silly.  If Pierce was alone going up against that Boston defense, he'd be totally shut down. 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 12:32:52 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 12:31:06 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Don't forget Hedo, he put up big time numbers in the playoffs...

17.5ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5apg

he doesn't play defense. at least, not consistantly.

hedo is a good SF though, i'd have him 6th or 7th i think, based on gut reaction.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »

Offline Jon

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Though I probably wouldn't seriously make this case, I think an argument could be made that Pierce may have the edge on LeBron now because of his superior outside shot.  As the Celtic defense showed, you can make LeBron an ineffective scorer by keeping him on the perimeter.  The same can't be said of Pierce. 

Now of course LeBron has numerous gifts that Pierce doesn't, but in terms of being able to shut him down offensively, Pierce may have the edge.  And when you consider where Pierce is in terms of defense, well maybe there is a case for Pierce as the best SF in basketball, at least right this second. 

That's not correct.   Pierce is my favorite player in the league... but LeBron is an entirely different level. 

As much as people want to compare Pierce's offensive stats vs LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs it's just silly.  If Pierce was alone going up against that Boston defense, he'd be totally shut down.

That's also why I'm not seriously making the argument.  Just playing some Devil's Advocate. 

I still think that LeBron's inconsistent outside shot is still a huge hole in his game.  And while I'd still give him the edge over Pierce, I'd say it's less of a gap than some would think because of that. 

Plus, while it's easy to say that LeBron almost singlehandedly beat the Big Three, I'd say it was more of a case of the Celtics playing down to the Cavs' level.  Obviously Atlanta had no business taking them to 7, but that happened. 

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 12:32:44 PM »

Offline ACF

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Lebron is the best SF.

LBJ hasn't got one of these

so I don't think Paul really cares.
Just like me  ::)

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 12:33:27 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Though I probably wouldn't seriously make this case, I think an argument could be made that Pierce may have the edge on LeBron now because of his superior outside shot.  As the Celtic defense showed, you can make LeBron an ineffective scorer by keeping him on the perimeter.  The same can't be said of Pierce. 

Now of course LeBron has numerous gifts that Pierce doesn't, but in terms of being able to shut him down offensively, Pierce may have the edge.  And when you consider where Pierce is in terms of defense, well maybe there is a case for Pierce as the best SF in basketball, at least right this second. 

That's not correct.   Pierce is my favorite player in the league... but LeBron is an entirely different level. 

As much as people want to compare Pierce's offensive stats vs LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs it's just silly.  If Pierce was alone going up against that Boston defense, he'd be totally shut down.

That's also why I'm not seriously making the argument.  Just playing some Devil's Advocate. 

I still think that LeBron's inconsistent outside shot is still a huge hole in his game.  And while I'd still give him the edge over Pierce, I'd say it's less of a gap than some would think because of that. 
if the roles were reversed and you put LeBron on the Celtics with KG and Ray, he'd have a field day.  He was able to take the Celtics to 7 games by himself and dump 45 on us in the deciding game.   Bron is unquestionably better.

But I think the debate is Dirk vs Pierce for #2.  Some might throw Melo's name in there too, but I see him as just a prolific scorer right now.  Maybe as he gets older he can become a more complete player as Pierce has.

Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 12:35:14 PM »

Offline cdif911

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Yeah, Lebron is obviously ahead of PP, and the scary thing is PP has maybe 3-4 good years left, Lebron has at least 10.....I'm amazed guys haven't flocked to Cleveland to help him out, as that's a title team with the right supporting cast...
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Re: Paul Pierce Best Small Forward in NBA?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 12:36:53 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Though I probably wouldn't seriously make this case, I think an argument could be made that Pierce may have the edge on LeBron now because of his superior outside shot.  As the Celtic defense showed, you can make LeBron an ineffective scorer by keeping him on the perimeter.  The same can't be said of Pierce. 

Now of course LeBron has numerous gifts that Pierce doesn't, but in terms of being able to shut him down offensively, Pierce may have the edge.  And when you consider where Pierce is in terms of defense, well maybe there is a case for Pierce as the best SF in basketball, at least right this second. 

That's not correct.   Pierce is my favorite player in the league... but LeBron is an entirely different level. 

As much as people want to compare Pierce's offensive stats vs LeBron and Kobe in the playoffs it's just silly.  If Pierce was alone going up against that Boston defense, he'd be totally shut down.

That's also why I'm not seriously making the argument.  Just playing some Devil's Advocate. 

I still think that LeBron's inconsistent outside shot is still a huge hole in his game.  And while I'd still give him the edge over Pierce, I'd say it's less of a gap than some would think because of that. 
if the roles were reversed and you put LeBron on the Celtics with KG and Ray, he'd have a field day.  He was able to take the Celtics to 7 games by himself and dump 45 on us in the deciding game.   Bron is unquestionably better.

But I think the debate is Dirk vs Pierce for #2.  Some might throw Melo's name in there too, but I see him as just a prolific scorer right now.  Maybe as he gets older he can become a more complete player as Pierce has.


I don't think it is much of a debate anymore. 

Pierce's advantages
Pierce comes up bigger in big games.  Pierce plays top defense. 

Dirk's advantages
Dirk is a 7 footer.