Sam I Am/House

[crownsy]

ray also:

plays defense
rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes
and is one of the best shooters of all time

but yea, other than that there situations are the same.

[joebianca]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

[Chris]

It has been one of my main complaints this season too and I think it has a lot to do with his defensive stance. He plays people as if he were standing up straight, instead of squating down and keeping his defender between his knees. Once he starts doing that better, he'll be a great defender. I'll say this, he has improved vastly on this during the season, but it still not where it's supoosed to be at.

Great point about the defensive stance.  I have noticed this too.  It seems like when he is not completely focused (or maybe he is tired), he will play defense with his hands.  He won't break down, and at times gets beat because of it.  Because he is so quick, and has such great hands, it hasn't led to him being beat too much, but it has held him back from going from a good defensive PG, to one of the best defensive players in the league.

[crownsy]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

[joebianca]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

Ray's a slightly better defender than Sam, but he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. The way he got burned every time down the court by Joe Johnson should've told you that alone.

Subpar games against Boston all year?

Hamilton 12/19 @ BOS: 8-for-11, 21 points
Hamilton 1/5 v. BOS: 6-for-16, 18 points
Hamilton 3/5 @ BOS: 7-for-14, 15 points

I count one very good game, one average game, and one subpar game.

Ray and Sam play similar kinds of defense. Neither has the lateral quickness to stay with mobile offensive players, so they body them and try to shadow them, and if that doesn't work, help comes.

[crownsy]

yea, but the thing your overlooking is that sam is a PG and ray gaurds SG's. for the most part, pg should be are easier to gaurd in theory, with some exceptions. billups is one of those exceptions.

Sam has yet to keep a point gaurd in front of him these playoffs, so i have serious concerns wheather he can keep chauncy in front of him at this point.

in fact, sam's benching in the clevland series wasen't for his offense woes, doc came out and said he could care less about sams offense. he benched him, and im qouting, because his defense on gibson and west was "a nightmare"

and i forgot that one 21 point game, which was good. if an average game out of rip against ray is 15 points on 14 shots, i'll take it, thats a loss for the pistons. if you make rip work for 14 shots, and keep him off the line, as ray did that game, then you did your job. 1.1 points per shot is pretty ineffecent.

if that line was 7-14 20+ points, then it would be a good game.

[BudweiserCeltic]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

Ray's a slightly better defender than Sam, but he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. The way he got burned every time down the court by Joe Johnson should've told you that alone.

Subpar games against Boston all year?

Hamilton 12/19 @ BOS: 8-for-11, 21 points
Hamilton 1/5 v. BOS: 6-for-16, 18 points
Hamilton 3/5 @ BOS: 7-for-14, 15 points

I count one very good game, one average game, and one subpar game.

Ray and Sam play similar kinds of defense. Neither has the lateral quickness to stay with mobile offensive players, so they body them and try to shadow them, and if that doesn't work, help comes.

You have to give credit where credit is due, Joe Johnson was spectacular... he with Ray's poor defense, our help defense on him was quite good for the most part, Joe Johnson was still making the shots. He was fabulous. Kinda like I thought Pierce was playing possessed in game 7 and think that little could've been done to stop him, Joe Johnson played that type of game.

LeBron scored 45 or whatever against Pierce, I don't think anyone here would argue that Pierce did a poor job defending LeBron.

[joebianca]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

Ray's a slightly better defender than Sam, but he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. The way he got burned every time down the court by Joe Johnson should've told you that alone.

Subpar games against Boston all year?

Hamilton 12/19 @ BOS: 8-for-11, 21 points
Hamilton 1/5 v. BOS: 6-for-16, 18 points
Hamilton 3/5 @ BOS: 7-for-14, 15 points

I count one very good game, one average game, and one subpar game.

Ray and Sam play similar kinds of defense. Neither has the lateral quickness to stay with mobile offensive players, so they body them and try to shadow them, and if that doesn't work, help comes.

You have to give credit where credit is due, Joe Johnson was spectacular... he with Ray's poor defense, our help defense on him was quite good for the most part, Joe Johnson was still making the shots. He was fabulous. Kinda like I thought Pierce was playing possessed in game 7 and think that little could've been done to stop him, Joe Johnson played that type of game.

LeBron scored 45 or whatever against Pierce, I don't think anyone here would argue that Pierce did a poor job defending LeBron.

Johnson was great, but he was blowing by Ray at will. It was embarrassing.

[BudweiserCeltic]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

Ray's a slightly better defender than Sam, but he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. The way he got burned every time down the court by Joe Johnson should've told you that alone.

Subpar games against Boston all year?

Hamilton 12/19 @ BOS: 8-for-11, 21 points
Hamilton 1/5 v. BOS: 6-for-16, 18 points
Hamilton 3/5 @ BOS: 7-for-14, 15 points

I count one very good game, one average game, and one subpar game.

Ray and Sam play similar kinds of defense. Neither has the lateral quickness to stay with mobile offensive players, so they body them and try to shadow them, and if that doesn't work, help comes.

You have to give credit where credit is due, Joe Johnson was spectacular... he with Ray's poor defense, our help defense on him was quite good for the most part, Joe Johnson was still making the shots. He was fabulous. Kinda like I thought Pierce was playing possessed in game 7 and think that little could've been done to stop him, Joe Johnson played that type of game.

LeBron scored 45 or whatever against Pierce, I don't think anyone here would argue that Pierce did a poor job defending LeBron.

Johnson was great, but he was blowing by Ray at will. It was embarrassing.

Johnson was a bad match up for him. It happens. It doesn't negate how well Ray has played defensively during the whole season. Rashard Lewis can give Garnett a ton of trouble, does that make him a bad defender? I know it's an unfair comparison, but I hate it when people make judgments on a player based on a set of unique circumstances like Ray on Joe Johnson is.

[joebianca]

ray also:

plays defense

Not really.

rebounds
finshes fast breaks strong
passes

Which is why I'm not advocating benching Ray for a long time.

and is one of the best shooters of all time

That sure as hell has helped him a lot the past six games.

My point is that Doc rightfully has had patience with Ray, and he needs to do the same with Sam.

you dont think ray plays defense? how did rip hamilton, one of the premeier SG's in the league do last night against him? but mabey that was a fluke..

oh wait, he's had subpar games against the celtics all year, but clearly that has nothing to do with his defender...

Ray's a slightly better defender than Sam, but he's not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination. The way he got burned every time down the court by Joe Johnson should've told you that alone.

Subpar games against Boston all year?

Hamilton 12/19 @ BOS: 8-for-11, 21 points
Hamilton 1/5 v. BOS: 6-for-16, 18 points
Hamilton 3/5 @ BOS: 7-for-14, 15 points

I count one very good game, one average game, and one subpar game.

Ray and Sam play similar kinds of defense. Neither has the lateral quickness to stay with mobile offensive players, so they body them and try to shadow them, and if that doesn't work, help comes.

You have to give credit where credit is due, Joe Johnson was spectacular... he with Ray's poor defense, our help defense on him was quite good for the most part, Joe Johnson was still making the shots. He was fabulous. Kinda like I thought Pierce was playing possessed in game 7 and think that little could've been done to stop him, Joe Johnson played that type of game.

LeBron scored 45 or whatever against Pierce, I don't think anyone here would argue that Pierce did a poor job defending LeBron.

Johnson was great, but he was blowing by Ray at will. It was embarrassing.

Johnson was a bad match up for him. It happens. It doesn't negate how well Ray has played defensively during the whole season. Rashard Lewis can give Garnett a ton of trouble, does that make him a bad defender? I know it's an unfair comparison, but I hate it when people make judgments on a player based on a set of unique circumstances like Ray on Joe Johnson is.

Ray's not a good defender, the Johnson game was just the most glaring example of that. Not saying he's completely useless on the defensive end, but he's not what I'd call "good".

[Chris]

Johnson was a bad match up for him. It happens. It doesn't negate how well Ray has played defensively during the whole season. Rashard Lewis can give Garnett a ton of trouble, does that make him a bad defender? I know it's an unfair comparison, but I hate it when people make judgments on a player based on a set of unique circumstances like Ray on Joe Johnson is.

Exactly.  Ray has a lot more trouble against bigger twos (especially ones who penetrate) than he does against quicker guys who run around, and come off picks.  Ray is able to use his quickness and intelligence to beat his men to the spot, when they are coming off picks, he just isn't as good.

Ray is a great matchup for Hamilton.  In fact, he is by far the best matchup for Hamilton on the team, other than Tony Allen (but he is too much of a liability).  Rondo has a lot more trouble against a guy like Hamilton, because he gets caught up on picks way too easily, and takes bad angles when chasing guys...not to mention, Hamilton would just post him up all day.