Sam I Am/House

[MattG12]

you can see last night why we went out and got Cassell. when House is in there DET turned up the ball pressure  big time.

during the season, there was major clamoring for a backup PG that could handle the ball better. as with thinking that House's importance was higher on the road in the CLE series, i think Cassell's importance increase in DET in this series.

that said, i am not in favor of making a move unless ballhandling actually becomes a problem (ie we start having really bad turnovers or it starts to affect the rhythm of the offense) because House plays better defense and has an electric shot.

if having Paul or Ray or even KG bring the ball up solves the problem, then i say stay with Eddie.

i also agree that most of the minutes should go to Rondo. the only reason at this point to play him less than 38 MPG is foul trouble.....

i disagree on waiting for it to become a problem. it is better to fix things proactively so you don't even have to deal with the problem. i don't want to see bad turnovers and then have doc make a move to sam when we are in the hole, that will only make sam want to shoot more so he can be the hero and get his minutes back. if you make the switch to sam, do it only if they are putting a lot of pressure on house and pierce is losing his rhythm or something on offense, or if pierce needs a rest from bringing the ball up. sam has to go in while we already have a lead so he is less of a threat to the team.

[winsomme]

you can see last night why we went out and got Cassell. when House is in there DET turned up the ball pressure  big time.

during the season, there was major clamoring for a backup PG that could handle the ball better. as with thinking that House's importance was higher on the road in the CLE series, i think Cassell's importance increase in DET in this series.

that said, i am not in favor of making a move unless ballhandling actually becomes a problem (ie we start having really bad turnovers or it starts to affect the rhythm of the offense) because House plays better defense and has an electric shot.

if having Paul or Ray or even KG bring the ball up solves the problem, then i say stay with Eddie.

i also agree that most of the minutes should go to Rondo. the only reason at this point to play him less than 38 MPG is foul trouble.....

i disagree on waiting for it to become a problem. it is better to fix things proactively so you don't even have to deal with the problem. i don't want to see bad turnovers and then have doc make a move to sam when we are in the hole, that will only make sam want to shoot more so he can be the hero and get his minutes back. if you make the switch to sam, do it only if they are putting a lot of pressure on house and pierce is losing his rhythm or something on offense, or if pierce needs a rest from bringing the ball up. sam has to go in while we already have a lead so he is less of a threat to the team.

the reason to wait IMO is because House is a better defender on Stuckey and his shooting can really light a fire when he is hot....

[BballTim]

I think Doc will come to a cross road here. As this series goes along the Pistons will pick up the ball pressure especially when Hunter is in the game he one of the best at pressuring the ball and in a close game it can make a difference.Now Doc has been going with House again(great move)i'm just worried that House wont be able to deal with Hunter's pressure when Rondo is not in the game.Cassell is the better ball handler but House is giving us better overall production and energy.It will be intresting to see if Doc sticks with House all the way.

  What's more important than whether to play Sam or Eddie is keeping their combined pg minutes below 10 a game.

Let's hope that Rondo plays like he did last night to warrant that much playing time.

  He's only had 1-2 games this postseason where he didn't warrant that much time. Whether he got the tie is another story.

I disagree, as I've mentioned before, he has only had about 6 (7 games now) games were he actually played good basketball for us.  In the rest, his been for the most part our worst enemy with the amount of responsibility he has in our offense. It's not about him shooting well, etc.  It's about how he has run our offense and shot selection (which ties-in with running our offense).

I would agree with you, only if you consider the games in which Cassell played big minutes and was bad... but I'd counter with the person that should've gotten minutes in those games instead would've been House instead of Rondo (who might have been playing poorly).

Serious question here, do you guys not see the difference in our offense when Rondo is moving the ball or not? Have you guys not noticed the huge amount of times when he has killed our offense completely? And it all started with game 3 in Atlanta, especially in that critical 3rd quarter... he almost single handedly handed that game to Atlanta with his poor decision making and ill advised shots.

  Rondo hasn't played perfectly, but neither have Paul or KG or Ray and they don't see the long stretches on the bench that Rondo does. When Rajon's on the floor and the ball's not moving the general cause is that Paul's trying to run the offense. His results are mixed at best.

  In general, Rondo hasn't played poorly but his scoring hasn't been consistent. But he gets too much blame for the offensive woes. For instance, in game 6 vs Cleveland, he'd bring the ball up and get someone an open look and they'd miss the shot. He could have had 10 assists in the first half, but I keep reading that he's playing poorly.

[Evantime34]

Detroit pressured House a lot when he was in the game and he didn't always handle it well. When teams do this the C's either have Pierce or Allen help bring the ball up, both of which I would much rather see with the ball than Sam. House is playing inspired defense hitting his shots and moving the ball when he needs to. Sam comes in and it's the Sam show: he's not running the offense, taking bad shots and having flashbacks to his glory days. I think Sam might be a good spark for a few minutes at some point but you have to dance with the girl that brought you and that is Eddie (that expression means you have to go with what got you success up to this point in case anyone wasn't sure).

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think Doc will come to a cross road here. As this series goes along the Pistons will pick up the ball pressure especially when Hunter is in the game he one of the best at pressuring the ball and in a close game it can make a difference.Now Doc has been going with House again(great move)i'm just worried that House wont be able to deal with Hunter's pressure when Rondo is not in the game.Cassell is the better ball handler but House is giving us better overall production and energy.It will be intresting to see if Doc sticks with House all the way.

  What's more important than whether to play Sam or Eddie is keeping their combined pg minutes below 10 a game.

Let's hope that Rondo plays like he did last night to warrant that much playing time.

  He's only had 1-2 games this postseason where he didn't warrant that much time. Whether he got the tie is another story.

I disagree, as I've mentioned before, he has only had about 6 (7 games now) games were he actually played good basketball for us.  In the rest, his been for the most part our worst enemy with the amount of responsibility he has in our offense. It's not about him shooting well, etc.  It's about how he has run our offense and shot selection (which ties-in with running our offense).

I would agree with you, only if you consider the games in which Cassell played big minutes and was bad... but I'd counter with the person that should've gotten minutes in those games instead would've been House instead of Rondo (who might have been playing poorly).

Serious question here, do you guys not see the difference in our offense when Rondo is moving the ball or not? Have you guys not noticed the huge amount of times when he has killed our offense completely? And it all started with game 3 in Atlanta, especially in that critical 3rd quarter... he almost single handedly handed that game to Atlanta with his poor decision making and ill advised shots.

  Rondo hasn't played perfectly, but neither have Paul or KG or Ray and they don't see the long stretches on the bench that Rondo does. When Rajon's on the floor and the ball's not moving the general cause is that Paul's trying to run the offense. His results are mixed at best.

  In general, Rondo hasn't played poorly but his scoring hasn't been consistent. But he gets too much blame for the offensive woes. For instance, in game 6 vs Cleveland, he'd bring the ball up and get someone an open look and they'd miss the shot. He could have had 10 assists in the first half, but I keep reading that he's playing poorly.

Again, nothing to do with his stats... I could care less on how his shot is falling or not, he simply hasn't been moving the ball well period.  It's not about Paul, KG, or Ray not shooting well, it's when Rondo starts playing like Cassell that we're in trouble, and hes been doing it quite a lot during the playoffs. He starts holding the ball, not making intelligent decisions, etc.

If you can't see it, well I guess we can't discuss any further, but can't argue about something that you're not noticing. But I'm telling you, it's very apparent to me how he hasn't been moving the ball... not the team, him in particular. Last night he couldn've had zero points and zero assists, and I'd be happy with the way he played.

As a tangent, so that you can see where I'm coming from, even though Ray Allen underperformed, I thought he had a fairly nice game, where he didn't really hurt the team because he was doing everything well except shooting.  When Rondo is not playing well, it drags our offense to the ground because it means he has stopped moving the ball, and the effects of it are magnified because of his responsibility in our offense.

Our poor PG play is what in part made Doc made the adjustment of having Pierce being our main ball handler to get us going, even with Rondo on the floor when he's not doing his job.

[Roy Hobbs]

you can see last night why we went out and got Cassell. when House is in there DET turned up the ball pressure  big time.

during the season, there was major clamoring for a backup PG that could handle the ball better. as with thinking that House's importance was higher on the road in the CLE series, i think Cassell's importance increase in DET in this series.

that said, i am not in favor of making a move unless ballhandling actually becomes a problem (ie we start having really bad turnovers or it starts to affect the rhythm of the offense) because House plays better defense and has an electric shot.

if having Paul or Ray or even KG bring the ball up solves the problem, then i say stay with Eddie.

i also agree that most of the minutes should go to Rondo. the only reason at this point to play him less than 38 MPG is foul trouble.....

i disagree on waiting for it to become a problem. it is better to fix things proactively so you don't even have to deal with the problem. i don't want to see bad turnovers and then have doc make a move to sam when we are in the hole, that will only make sam want to shoot more so he can be the hero and get his minutes back. if you make the switch to sam, do it only if they are putting a lot of pressure on house and pierce is losing his rhythm or something on offense, or if pierce needs a rest from bringing the ball up. sam has to go in while we already have a lead so he is less of a threat to the team.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  We all have witnessed how bad this team can play when Sam is off his game, and we've all seen the very tangible effect House has had on the team over the last few games.  He's a better defender, he brings more energy, he moves the ball, and he stretches the defense.  He's a better fit, and until on-the-ball pressure becomes a legitimate problem, it makes no sense to substitute an inferior player into the rotation.

(And yes, I think for this team, Eddie is a better player than Sam.)

[BballTim]

I think Doc will come to a cross road here. As this series goes along the Pistons will pick up the ball pressure especially when Hunter is in the game he one of the best at pressuring the ball and in a close game it can make a difference.Now Doc has been going with House again(great move)i'm just worried that House wont be able to deal with Hunter's pressure when Rondo is not in the game.Cassell is the better ball handler but House is giving us better overall production and energy.It will be intresting to see if Doc sticks with House all the way.

  What's more important than whether to play Sam or Eddie is keeping their combined pg minutes below 10 a game.

Let's hope that Rondo plays like he did last night to warrant that much playing time.

  He's only had 1-2 games this postseason where he didn't warrant that much time. Whether he got the tie is another story.

I disagree, as I've mentioned before, he has only had about 6 (7 games now) games were he actually played good basketball for us.  In the rest, his been for the most part our worst enemy with the amount of responsibility he has in our offense. It's not about him shooting well, etc.  It's about how he has run our offense and shot selection (which ties-in with running our offense).

I would agree with you, only if you consider the games in which Cassell played big minutes and was bad... but I'd counter with the person that should've gotten minutes in those games instead would've been House instead of Rondo (who might have been playing poorly).

Serious question here, do you guys not see the difference in our offense when Rondo is moving the ball or not? Have you guys not noticed the huge amount of times when he has killed our offense completely? And it all started with game 3 in Atlanta, especially in that critical 3rd quarter... he almost single handedly handed that game to Atlanta with his poor decision making and ill advised shots.

  Rondo hasn't played perfectly, but neither have Paul or KG or Ray and they don't see the long stretches on the bench that Rondo does. When Rajon's on the floor and the ball's not moving the general cause is that Paul's trying to run the offense. His results are mixed at best.

  In general, Rondo hasn't played poorly but his scoring hasn't been consistent. But he gets too much blame for the offensive woes. For instance, in game 6 vs Cleveland, he'd bring the ball up and get someone an open look and they'd miss the shot. He could have had 10 assists in the first half, but I keep reading that he's playing poorly.

Again, nothing to do with his stats... I could care less on how his shot is falling or not, he simply hasn't been moving the ball well period.  It's not about Paul, KG, or Ray not shooting well, it's when Rondo starts playing like Cassell that we're in trouble, and hes been doing it quite a lot during the playoffs. He starts holding the ball, not making intelligent decisions, etc.

If you can't see it, well I guess we can't discuss any further, but can't argue about something that you're not noticing. But I'm telling you, it's very apparent to me how he hasn't been moving the ball... not the team, him in particular. Last night he couldn've had zero points and zero assists, and I'd be happy with the way he played.

As a tangent, so that you can see where I'm coming from, even though Ray Allen underperformed, I thought he had a fairly nice game, where he didn't really hurt the team because he was doing everything well except shooting.  When Rondo is not playing well, it drags our offense to the ground because it means he has stopped moving the ball, and the effects of it are magnified because of his responsibility in our offense.

Our poor PG play is what in part made Doc made the adjustment of having Pierce being our main ball handler to get us going, even with Rondo on the floor when he's not doing his job.

  Giving the offense over to Paul seemed to be more about getting Paul going than us going. He was struggling offensively for a while, and every time he'd hit a shot or two we'd revert back to Rondo giving Paul the ball and heading for the corner.

  Again, I'm not saying rondo's been perfect. But he's our bes option at point both offensively and defensively. When he comes out of the game it's frequently for too long. We lose momentum and he's cold from sitting for so long.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think Doc will come to a cross road here. As this series goes along the Pistons will pick up the ball pressure especially when Hunter is in the game he one of the best at pressuring the ball and in a close game it can make a difference.Now Doc has been going with House again(great move)i'm just worried that House wont be able to deal with Hunter's pressure when Rondo is not in the game.Cassell is the better ball handler but House is giving us better overall production and energy.It will be intresting to see if Doc sticks with House all the way.

  What's more important than whether to play Sam or Eddie is keeping their combined pg minutes below 10 a game.

Let's hope that Rondo plays like he did last night to warrant that much playing time.

  He's only had 1-2 games this postseason where he didn't warrant that much time. Whether he got the tie is another story.

I disagree, as I've mentioned before, he has only had about 6 (7 games now) games were he actually played good basketball for us.  In the rest, his been for the most part our worst enemy with the amount of responsibility he has in our offense. It's not about him shooting well, etc.  It's about how he has run our offense and shot selection (which ties-in with running our offense).

I would agree with you, only if you consider the games in which Cassell played big minutes and was bad... but I'd counter with the person that should've gotten minutes in those games instead would've been House instead of Rondo (who might have been playing poorly).

Serious question here, do you guys not see the difference in our offense when Rondo is moving the ball or not? Have you guys not noticed the huge amount of times when he has killed our offense completely? And it all started with game 3 in Atlanta, especially in that critical 3rd quarter... he almost single handedly handed that game to Atlanta with his poor decision making and ill advised shots.

  Rondo hasn't played perfectly, but neither have Paul or KG or Ray and they don't see the long stretches on the bench that Rondo does. When Rajon's on the floor and the ball's not moving the general cause is that Paul's trying to run the offense. His results are mixed at best.

  In general, Rondo hasn't played poorly but his scoring hasn't been consistent. But he gets too much blame for the offensive woes. For instance, in game 6 vs Cleveland, he'd bring the ball up and get someone an open look and they'd miss the shot. He could have had 10 assists in the first half, but I keep reading that he's playing poorly.

Again, nothing to do with his stats... I could care less on how his shot is falling or not, he simply hasn't been moving the ball well period.  It's not about Paul, KG, or Ray not shooting well, it's when Rondo starts playing like Cassell that we're in trouble, and hes been doing it quite a lot during the playoffs. He starts holding the ball, not making intelligent decisions, etc.

If you can't see it, well I guess we can't discuss any further, but can't argue about something that you're not noticing. But I'm telling you, it's very apparent to me how he hasn't been moving the ball... not the team, him in particular. Last night he couldn've had zero points and zero assists, and I'd be happy with the way he played.

As a tangent, so that you can see where I'm coming from, even though Ray Allen underperformed, I thought he had a fairly nice game, where he didn't really hurt the team because he was doing everything well except shooting.  When Rondo is not playing well, it drags our offense to the ground because it means he has stopped moving the ball, and the effects of it are magnified because of his responsibility in our offense.

Our poor PG play is what in part made Doc made the adjustment of having Pierce being our main ball handler to get us going, even with Rondo on the floor when he's not doing his job.

  Giving the offense over to Paul seemed to be more about getting Paul going than us going. He was struggling offensively for a while, and every time he'd hit a shot or two we'd revert back to Rondo giving Paul the ball and heading for the corner.

Which wouldn't have been a need to do so if Rondo was running the team effectively.  Let me draw you a small comparison. Earlier in the year, Rondo could've had a bad game and it wouldn't have affected the Celtics much. During the playoffs, Rondo has a poor game and it affects the Celtics greatly, and the reason for this is because his responsibility on our offense has changed and that's what I'm alluding to. Giving the ball handling duties to Paul Pierce is a bit of a reversion to what we were doing earlier in the season, though not quite the same.

Let me draw you another comparison, look at House's performance in game 7 against the Cavs. Bad shooting night, but with his limitations, he moved the ball well, hence had a great game in my opinion.  Rondo wasn't moving the ball well, and with him on the floor, Doc didn't trust him enough to run the offense.

[thedawg]

I think Doc will come to a cross road here. As this series goes along the Pistons will pick up the ball pressure especially when Hunter is in the game he one of the best at pressuring the ball and in a close game it can make a difference.Now Doc has been going with House again(great move)i'm just worried that House wont be able to deal with Hunter's pressure when Rondo is not in the game.Cassell is the better ball handler but House is giving us better overall production and energy.It will be intresting to see if Doc sticks with House all the way.

I disagree.I think we should shelf Cassell for good and keep playing the team that got us where we are today.  Cassell hogs the balls too much and simply is too ugly for this team in many terms.

[crownsy]

giving the ball to paul at the top of the key had nothing to do with rondo or paul, it had everythign to do with the fact that for a full game, flip saunders made no adjustments to stop the high pick and roll with pierce and KG, and it killed the pistons.

File it under roy's "if it aint broke, dont fix it" rule, the pistons showed no interst in correctly defending that play all night, so why not run it to death?

here's hoping they can't figure that play out game 2 either.

[BudweiserCeltic]

giving the ball to paul at the top of the key had nothing to do with rondo or paul, it had everythign to do with the fact that for a full game, flip saunders made no adjustments to stop the high pick and roll with pierce and KG, and it killed the pistons.

File it under roy's "if it aint broke, dont fix it" rule, the pistons showed no interst in correctly defending that play all night, so why not run it to death?

here's hoping they can't figure that play out game 2 either.

I was actually talking about the Cavs series... that's one of the main reasons Doc had playing Pierce like this.  He saw the huge success Pierce had with it, that he stuck with it against Detroit, even though Rondo was having a good game moving the ball. What this does is provide a safety net in case Rondo reverts to playing as he has in quite a few games during the playoffs, while at the same time incorporating different looks for our offense.

[crownsy]

i understand that, but my point was, rondo moved the ball awesome last night, but you were prying that play out of our cold, dead hands.

anyone else resoanbly shocked the pistons didn't change ANYTHING about there D on that play all night?

it ate them alive, to the tune of van gundy even calling them out on it in the 4th with a "is detroit going to do anything about this pierce and kg pick and roll?" asked to no one in particular.

[kenmaine]

I'd use Cassell if Rondo or House broke his leg, but other than that, I think that experiment should be considered over. Maybe give him some minutes in the first half just to see if he can do anything, but really, House deserves the playing time. Sure Cassell might be able to bring the ball up better, but then he'll pound it until there are four seconds left on the clock and take a fadeaway jumper, which is ok if they all go in, but lately none of them have been.
How's this for a simple idea- play Rondo 45 minutes, and bench Ray Allen. I'm serious- something is drastically wrong either with Ray's head or with his body, and "wishin and hoping" he turns it around doesn't seem to be working. Why not use Pierce, House, and  Posey at the two.
And Budweiser- I couldn't disagree any more about Rondo. He does so many good things out there, I really think you're nitpicking a little about the "ball movement" thing. I see the same thing sometimes too, he's out there dribbling and nothing is happening, but is it just on him, or is there a play breaking down, or no one is open, maybe just good defense? Not sure, but I'll take my chances with him running the show.


 

[BudweiserCeltic]

And Budweiser- I couldn't disagree any more about Rondo. He does so many good things out there, I really think you're nitpicking a little about the "ball movement" thing. I see the same thing sometimes too, he's out there dribbling and nothing is happening, but is it just on him, or is there a play breaking down, or no one is open, maybe just good defense? Not sure, but I'll take my chances with him running the show.

When he's been playing like this since Atlanta with Mike Bibby on him, etc., it tells me that a big chunk of the responsibility lies with him. Too often he held the ball and did nothing to get our offense going.  Too often he attacked the basket, had the defense collapse on him (3 defenders) and he still tried to force a shot, instead of recollecting himself or finding the open man.  He did these mistakes too often.

And I'm not nitpicking... nitpicking Rondo would be if I would be here jabbering about how he can't hit a shot, etc.  I don't care about that.  I care about him running the offense because of the huge influence it has on our team and it's tied with with the responsibility he has been given late in the season, and earlier in the playoffs.  With these "new" play Doc has incorporated with Pierce, Rondo's influence on our offensive success is lessened, and that's the way it should be in my opinion, because Rondo is too incosistent running the offense.

Let me draw another comparison... when Rondo's shot is off, our offense should still be able to run fairly smooth because Rondo's responsibility is to get our offense moving. During this playoffs, he's has only had a positive impact in our offense when he's scoring.  That's not good enough... that's Cassell's role. Our offense should flow positively regardless of how Rondo is shooting or not because he has the responsibility to distribute, and he should be very capable of doing it... he simply hasn't been doing it consistently.  But what I've seen as of late, is that Doc is lessening the burden quite a bit on him, especially with the emergence of the pick and roll with Pierce.

[OmarSekou]

Don't consider Sam I Am's role as over. He is still crafty and clutch (something no one other than Pierce has proven in their careers). If Rondo gets gassed or House is off one night I'd like him to come in and play against Stuckey. I'm sure he could either throw him off his game or create for himself against an inexperienced player.