Nobody Tell Me Officiating Didn't Decide This One

[CelticPride]

The only reason the officials were able to effect the out come of the game was the Celtics played so bad on offense (and on the boards)


Despite all the help, Cleveland only scored 74 points.


Celtics offense just show up.  Take the game out of the officials hands. 

I understand this. I understand the frustration at the missed shots and the silly turn-overs. But a lot of the picks that got called as fouls on Davis and Perkins were not fouls and that causes turn-overs and disrupts the offense. When Perk got to an offensive rebound, he would get a ticky-tack foul called him. When the Cavs went over the back of him, they weren't called for fouls (they just used their long arms). Getting your bigs in foul trouble giving the opp.s free throws for nothing is a severe handicapp in any game. Didn't Lebron take more free throws than the entire Celtic team? It's not like they drove the hole more aggressively and we sat back taking jump shots the entire game.

[TheReaLPuba]

The only reason the officials were able to effect the out come of the game was the Celtics played so bad on offense (and on the boards)


Despite all the help, Cleveland only scored 74 points.


Celtics offense just show up.  Take the game out of the officials hands. 

I understand this. I understand the frustration at the missed shots and the silly turn-overs. But a lot of the picks that got called as fouls on Davis and Perkins were not fouls and that causes turn-overs and disrupts the offense. When Perk got to an offensive rebound, he would get a ticky-tack foul called him. When the Cavs went over the back of him, they weren't called for fouls (they just used their long arms). Getting your bigs in foul trouble giving the opp.s free throws for nothing is a severe handicapp in any game. Didn't Lebron take more free throws than the entire Celtic team? It's not like they drove the hole more aggressively and we sat back taking jump shots the entire game.

Exactly.

When the Cavs on their runs their scores are coming from the lines and a couple jumpers from Big Z.

The Cavs also get calls stopping our runs.

[Hrvoje]

I've just seen that Pierce foul in the last minute of the game.

I've never been a referee basher, but that call was AWFUL

[RebusRankin]

Yes the Celtics didn't play well but the reffing effects that too:

1. It changes the minutes, rotations and combinations on the floor due to foul trouble.

2. It takes you out of the natural flow of the game.

3. They missed shots due to being hacked with no calls.

4. They were getting hammered on the glass because Cleveland could push, shove and consistantly go over the back.

5. It lessens your defensive intensity because if you breathe on a Cav its a foul.

[Finkelskyhook]

James is going to get every call in the fourth quarter of every game.  Any opponent who doesn't assume that is delusional.

We need to be far enough ahead in the last half of the fourth quarter on Sunday where the calls don't matter.  Otherwise we lose game 7

[jaketwice]

i agree that the celts could of done things differently to win the game and help make the officials a non-factor. but im from the belief that the officials should NEVER be a factor in the game to begin with. i expect all teams to make mistakes, miss shots, miss assignments, play the wrong players, ect. thats part of the game.
but i dont expect the officials to consistently miss or make the wrong calls throughout a game.
and for them to make these calls consistently for an entire series is absolutely inexcusable. it shows that there is a pattern of mistakes. which then goes to the fact that the REAL problem isnt missed calls, but that the officials have a different idea of how the game should be played.
That is a major major problem. especially when they are 8 months removed from a NBA officiating scandal.

I agree it is a major problem.  But it is a problem that is not going away.


It is up to teams (like Boston) to play well enough that they take away much of the officials power to effect the outcome. 

If they have to play through another game like that, then they are finished....That is unless you have 5 MJ's out there.

You don't need five MJs.  What you need is at least 1/3 of our team to play an average game.

Paul, Ray, Perk, Rondo, BBD, Posey, and P.J. all had poor-to-terrible games (only Perk shot over 40%, and he had four points and three rebounds).  Only KG and Eddie played reasonably well.  That's just not going to get it done.

I usually appreciate a moderate approach, but in this circumstance, that approach is misguided.

The Celtics were not able to play any real defense in the second half because of the way the refs "decided" the first half. The free throw differential was 18 - 5 in favor of Cleveland (which was ~43% of their point total).

How can Pierce go strong to the hole when he's getting offensive fouls called on him? How can Ray Allen defend anyone when Wally is getting ticky-tack fouls off the ball (sending him to the line)? How can Big Baby possibly score it he gets hammered about the face and neck by Zydrunas Ilgauskas' elbows and there's no call? 

If you punch me in the face once and I don't get the call, shame on you; if it happens twice, shame on me.  That kid was working down there. The reasons fouls are FOULS is because you can't shoot when you get hit. BBD, as well as others, were regularly fouled. The problem wasn't simply the calls FOR Cleveland, it was also the NON-CALLS on behalf of the Celtics.

The last play was a perfect rationalization for the Celtics' offensive lapses. LeBron is moving his feet, runs into Pierce, FLOPS, and gets the call.  Sorry. That's just NOT FAIR.

No team, even a team of 5 Michael Jordan's is going to be able to survive that level of bias by an officiating staff.  The fact is, we've all invested a lot of time in something that is phony-baloney.

The NBA: it isn't real.

[connerhenry43]

if anyone has the game tivo'd, watch pierc's 2nd foul. he goes through a pick by Z along the baseline. LJ Brown is guarding Z, Pierce is guarding Lebron. The ref, who is roughly free throw line extended, almost out of bounds, roughly 25 feet away from the call. i rewound this play maybe 50 times, making my wife watch it (she is a saint, by the way). from where the ref is standing, there is zero, and I mean zero, chance he saw the call, or say any contact. it was not only a bad call, it was made up,. Z and PJ are directly in the way, the ref could not have seen it. he gives pierce a 2nd foul, making him hit the bench.

another horrendous night in the nba with the refs.

[jaketwice]

I disagree with you. Davis did not take bad shots. He grabbed offensive boards, and put the ball right back up. Thats not bad. He got banged every time, so he missed. No calls. Thats on the refs.

He didn't deserve calls, and his shots were terrible. 

are you kidding? you all right? wait did a ref from last nights game hijack scintan's account. Come on he deserved atleast a few calls under the basket, and I didn't see him taking any bad shots, they were all within 5 ft of the hoop. You know. The type of shots you want someone like baby taking.

Actually, shots within 5 feet of the hoop while surrounded by taller and better athletes are exactly the shots you do not want Davis taking if he can't create space.  And how did he 'deserve' a few calls?  It certainly wasn't because of some blatant foul not being called.

You are just wrong. Davis is the strongest guy on the Court in this series. He created space, and was regularly hacked. You DO want the strongest guy down there.

If you weren't watching too closely, that's fine: but consider, LBJ would have gotten a call EVERY time he was under the basket.

He DESERVED a few calls, because he was consistently hacked by Ilgauskas. That play where he went for the putback: he was hacked both times. That play in the second half where the ball went out of bound? He was hit on the shoulders by Varejao.

[Scintan]

I disagree with you. Davis did not take bad shots. He grabbed offensive boards, and put the ball right back up. Thats not bad. He got banged every time, so he missed. No calls. Thats on the refs.

He didn't deserve calls, and his shots were terrible. 

are you kidding? you all right? wait did a ref from last nights game hijack scintan's account. Come on he deserved atleast a few calls under the basket, and I didn't see him taking any bad shots, they were all within 5 ft of the hoop. You know. The type of shots you want someone like baby taking.

Actually, shots within 5 feet of the hoop while surrounded by taller and better athletes are exactly the shots you do not want Davis taking if he can't create space.  And how did he 'deserve' a few calls?  It certainly wasn't because of some blatant foul not being called.

You are just wrong. Davis is the strongest guy on the Court in this series. He created space, and was regularly hacked. You DO want the strongest guy down there.

If you weren't watching too closely, that's fine: but consider, LBJ would have gotten a call EVERY time he was under the basket.

He DESERVED a few calls, because he was consistently hacked by Ilgauskas. That play where he went for the putback: he was hacked both times. That play in the second half where the ball went out of bound? He was hit on the shoulders by Varejao.

1.)  I'm not wrong, as last night showed.  Davis got his hat handed to him because he of his phonebook vertical.  It's not as if I'm bringing down tablets from heaven on this, because the broadcasting team was able to see the same thing I was.

2.)  I watched the game quite closely.  LeBron did not get a call every time he was under the basket, including those times when he ended up bloodied.

3.)  Davis didn't deserve any calls.  He throws his caboose around and the opponent gets to fight back.  that's how it works under the basket.  Stop blaming everything on the other team and the officials.  Davis was terrible last night, and he didn't belong on the court either offensively or defensively. 

[Redz]

Got to agree with Scintan on Big Baby last night.  His usefulness had expired for the evening. 

[jaketwice]

I disagree with you. Davis did not take bad shots. He grabbed offensive boards, and put the ball right back up. Thats not bad. He got banged every time, so he missed. No calls. Thats on the refs.

He didn't deserve calls, and his shots were terrible. 

are you kidding? you all right? wait did a ref from last nights game hijack scintan's account. Come on he deserved atleast a few calls under the basket, and I didn't see him taking any bad shots, they were all within 5 ft of the hoop. You know. The type of shots you want someone like baby taking.

Actually, shots within 5 feet of the hoop while surrounded by taller and better athletes are exactly the shots you do not want Davis taking if he can't create space.  And how did he 'deserve' a few calls?  It certainly wasn't because of some blatant foul not being called.

You are just wrong. Davis is the strongest guy on the Court in this series. He created space, and was regularly hacked. You DO want the strongest guy down there.

If you weren't watching too closely, that's fine: but consider, LBJ would have gotten a call EVERY time he was under the basket.

He DESERVED a few calls, because he was consistently hacked by Ilgauskas. That play where he went for the putback: he was hacked both times. That play in the second half where the ball went out of bound? He was hit on the shoulders by Varejao.

1.)  I'm not wrong, as last night showed.  Davis got his hat handed to him because he of his phonebook vertical.  It's not as if I'm bringing down tablets from heaven on this, because the broadcasting team was able to see the same thing I was.

2.)  I watched the game quite closely.  LeBron did not get a call every time he was under the basket, including those times when he ended up bloodied.

3.)  Davis didn't deserve any calls.  He throws his caboose around and the opponent gets to fight back.  that's how it works under the basket.  Stop blaming everything on the other team and the officials.  Davis was terrible last night, and he didn't belong on the court either offensively or defensively. 

Davis did manage to dunk the ball last night. So while "phonebook vertical" is a nice piece of rhetoric, it's not really based on fact.

And while Lebron maybe didn't get a call every time, he did get 15 free throws. Davis got... ...oh that's right - he didn't get ANY free throws.

Perhaps you don't understand the rules of basketball very well: but when a player has the ball within "the circle" and he gets hit while going up for a shot, that is called a "shooting foul." Those hands on Davis were not on the ball, or at least not ONLY on the ball.  Do you really mean to say that Lebron jumping into Pierce makes him more entitled to a free throw than Davis who is battling under the boards?

PS: this thread is called "nobody tell me the officiating didn't decide this one."  The majority of people posting here DO in fact blame the loss on the officiating. So I find the imperative a little weak.  How about: stop buying so whole-heartedly into the NBA marketing machine and think critically about what you've just seen?

[Scintan]

Davis did manage to dunk the ball last night. So while "phonebook vertical" is a nice piece of rhetoric, it's not really based on fact.

Davis is 6'8".  Toss in arm length, and you're looking at a player who's comfortably 9' in height or taller.  A phone book vertical, based in fact, would be enough to get him dunking or close to it.  My comment may have been rhetorical, but it's pretty accurate in Davis' case, as well.

Perhaps you don't understand the rules of basketball very well: but when a player has the ball within "the circle" and he gets hit while going up for a shot, that is called a "shooting foul." Those hands on Davis were not on the ball, or at least not ONLY on the ball.  Do you really mean to say that Lebron jumping into Pierce makes him more entitled to a free throw than Davis who is battling under the boards?

I understand the rules of basketball quite well, thank you.  When a player clears out with his backside, that's an offensive foul.  When a player jumps into an opponent, that's an offensive foul.  There are oodles of things which are fouls, but they don't all get called when minor contact is made.  And, Davis is a rookie backup.  Of course he's going to get fewer calls than a LeBron.  Like it or not, that's the NBA, and it's been that way for decades.  Looking at the game the way they are typically called in the NBA, Davis didnt' deserve foul calls.

PS: this thread is called "nobody tell me the officiating didn't decide this one."  The majority of people posting here DO in fact blame the loss on the officiating. So I find the imperative a little weak.  How about: stop buying so whole-heartedly into the NBA marketing machine and think critically about what you've just seen?

NBA marketing means nothing to me.  I personally don't believe that better players should get more calls.  I personally think the rules on traveling/palming/etc... should be brought back to where they belong.  I think having different 'rules' for home and away games is moronic.

However, that's the way the game is played, and this isn't new.  Complaining about it just because it's going against your team during an away game is just making excuses.  There are games where the officials cost teams wins, but this wasn't one of them.

[KungPoweChicken]

I like how Lebron basically called the charge a block in his conference intereview. However, I really wish he would have said it straight faced and more seriously. Honesty from the players would help clean things up a bit. Also, if the playeres would stop bickering on every call, that may also help.

[jaketwice]

Davis did manage to dunk the ball last night. So while "phonebook vertical" is a nice piece of rhetoric, it's not really based on fact.

Davis is 6'8".  Toss in arm length, and you're looking at a player who's comfortably 9' in height or taller.  A phone book vertical, based in fact, would be enough to get him dunking or close to it.  My comment may have been rhetorical, but it's pretty accurate in Davis' case, as well.

  You can see, he gets a few feet in the air here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpKzBapWLZI

Perhaps you don't understand the rules of basketball very well: but when a player has the ball within "the circle" and he gets hit while going up for a shot, that is called a "shooting foul." Those hands on Davis were not on the ball, or at least not ONLY on the ball.  Do you really mean to say that Lebron jumping into Pierce makes him more entitled to a free throw than Davis who is battling under the boards?

I understand the rules of basketball quite well, thank you.  When a player clears out with his backside, that's an offensive foul.  When a player jumps into an opponent, that's an offensive foul.  There are oodles of things which are fouls, but they don't all get called when minor contact is made.  And, Davis is a rookie backup.  Of course he's going to get fewer calls than a LeBron.  Like it or not, that's the NBA, and it's been that way for decades.  Looking at the game the way they are typically called in the NBA, Davis didnt' deserve foul calls.

Oh of course the rookie back-up gets fewer calls!  That's exactly the mentality that's so damaging to the game. Why "of course" how about looking at what's fair?

And while I hear what you're saying: lots of fouls don't get called; on the ball fouls directly preventing the act of shooting should be called.

If Ray Allen gets called for fighting his way around a Szcerbiak [sic] screen OFF THE BALL, and play stops, then any player should get the call while being fouled in the act of shooting under the basket such that it prevents his shooting motion.

PS: this thread is called "nobody tell me the officiating didn't decide this one."  The majority of people posting here DO in fact blame the loss on the officiating. So I find the imperative a little weak.  How about: stop buying so whole-heartedly into the NBA marketing machine and think critically about what you've just seen?

NBA marketing means nothing to me.  I personally don't believe that better players should get more calls.  I personally think the rules on traveling/palming/etc... should be brought back to where they belong.  I think having different 'rules' for home and away games is moronic.

Then we agree. Fewer fouls could be called as well. The game would be more fun to watch.

However, that's the way the game is played, and this isn't new.  Complaining about it just because it's going against your team during an away game is just making excuses.  There are games where the officials cost teams wins, but this wasn't one of them.

I complain about this constantly. I am particularly incensed about it in this instance, however, because it is MY basketball team on the receiving end of the unfairness.  The Celtics get cheap-o calls also: and I hate that too.

I did not like the '06 "Dwayne Wade free throw"  finals victory. And I did not like the Stoudemire/Diaw suspensions that handed victory to the Spurs.  The NBA: marketing at the expense of the game.
 

[Scintan]

...And while I hear what you're saying: lots of fouls don't get called; on the ball fouls directly preventing the act of shooting should be called....

I don't think we really disagree on too much here.  I think we agree that officials don't call the game according the the actual rules.  I think we agree that 'discretion' plays too big a part in who wins and loses.  I'd even hazard a guess that we agree that bad foul calls early in the game are often more costly than bad calls late in the game (the old "two quick fouls on player X").

Where we disagree is on applying all that to game 6, and I don't think either of us will be changing positions on that, from the looks of things.