Will Doc Ever Coach a Team Out of the First Round?

[CELTICS733]

 We're so quick to blame Doc.  Everyone we expected to play except TA was on the court last night and to a man they were out hustled and intimated at every position.  If you want to point a finger look at the man who has been over hyped this whole season "Kevin the Great".  We all by into his pregame antics and his yelling and cursing, however where is all that energy on the boards or in the post.  He's the tallest/longest player on the court and if that 15' footer isn't dropping forget it, he doesn't have a strong post game.  Everybody pushes him off the block.  Smith is killing him, Mr. Defensive Player of the year is stopping no one.  They’re changing our shots on the offensive end but there coming to the hole and jamming in our face.  Flashback!!!  Remember KG getting on all fours to play D and the crowd went wild?  What happened?  The person he was guarding drove to the hole and scored.  We all buy into the Pomp and Circumstance, because of the personality.  Wake up!  I love the Celtics and for that reason I know we will win this series but the playoffs expose all weaknesses and he has several.

[Bankshot]

We're so quick to blame Doc.  Everyone we expected to play except TA was on the court last night and to a man they were out hustled and intimated at every position.  If you want to point a finger look at the man who has been over hyped this whole season "Kevin the Great".  We all by into his pregame antics and his yelling and cursing, however where is all that energy on the boards or in the post.  He's the tallest/longest player on the court and if that 15' footer isn't dropping forget it, he doesn't have a strong post game.  Everybody pushes him off the block.  Smith is killing him, Mr. Defensive Player of the year is stopping no one.  They’re changing our shots on the offensive end but there coming to the hole and jamming in our face.  Flashback!!!  Remember KG getting on all fours to play D and the crowd went wild?  What happened?  The person he was guarding drove to the hole and scored.  We all buy into the Pomp and Circumstance, because of the personality.  Wake up!  I love the Celtics and for that reason I know we will win this series but the playoffs expose all weaknesses and he has several.

I do blame Doc for a lot of it, but I do agree with some of your points about KG.  I've been saying all year long that he was given way too much credit for EVERYTHING.  Every time one of the players does something good, it's because of KG. LOL  It's like no one would do anything well if he was never here.  Pierce played good defense when he was on  a defensive team lead by O'brien, but he would NEVER have played a lick of defense ever again had KG not showed up.

On to Doc.  Sorry, but I do blame Doc for much of this.  Why did Eddie start the 4th quarter when he really hadn't played the whole series?  Wouldn't it have been smarter to give him minutes earlier in the game so he can get comfortable...get his feet wet.  He should not have been thrown into the fire like that ice cold.  He should have started the 4th quarter with the lineup that got the 10 pt lead to try to stomp on the Hawks and extend the lead.  This young athletic team is the perfect team for Tony Allen to get spot minutes to play defense.  Where the heck has he been?  Perk played great the first half, but was kept out of most of the 2nd half.

KG has not stepped up like he needs to, but Doc has made a LOT of mistakes in these last two games.

[CELTICS733]

House could have got some spot minutes throughout games 3 & 4, but that and not playing Allen has anything to do with how their starting 5 is out playing our starting 5.  Who is our Monster???  Perkins, he can't make a layup or dunk without having to dribble and go through head to toe windup.  Garnett, he's too busy shooting the 15 to 18' with ZaZa guarding him.  Allen, he looks like a dear in the headlights most of the time, he plays scared.  Pierce is the only one who I think can man up and play the tough game, but he needs help.  Doc is not being out coached, we are being out played.  PERIOD.  My only issue with Doc is he should have put Posey on Johnson because Ray Ray was getting killed. 

[wdleehi]

After sleeping 5 hours, I am now more sure then ever.



This series is on Doc Rivers.  He is allowing his team to get out of sync.  He is helping by playing musical chairs with the rotation. 


He is the one when the Celtics get up big going into the 4th with great defense puts out a shooting team to start the 4th. 

He is the one that is happy with the jumpshots (he did say he was happy with the shots, they just didn't fall).

He is the one that in not telling them to post up KG every possession.  Telling Rondo to hand off and stand in the corner.

He is the one that keeps Ray Allen on Johnson. 


The players are not stepping up, and the Doc Rivers is allowing (and helping him)

They will step up at home as the home crowd drives them.  But game 6, they need to wake up. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Adjustments?  We don't need no stinkin' adjustments.

[wdleehi]

Adjustments?  We don't need no stinkin' adjustments.

He will probably activate Scali for this next game and send Brown or Davis to the inactive list. 

[Celts17Pride]

I'm sorry wdleehi, this is not on Doc Rivers. The Big 3 and the other players are being out played, out hustled, out composed. The Atlanta Hawks are playing with fire and the Celtics are playing like they are owed something.

The big knock on the Big 3 is they are great players on losing teams but they are not winners. Right now they are doing nothing to dispell that knock.

KG, Pierce & Allen have to step up and take control of this series. That is what great winning players do.

I am a diehard Celtics fan but I'm just telling it like it is.

[wdleehi]

I'm sorry wdleehi, this is not on Doc Rivers. The Big 3 and the other players are being out played, out hustled, out composed. The Atlanta Hawks are playing with fire and the Celtics are playing like they are owed something.

The big knock on the Big 3 is they are great players on losing teams but they are not winners. Right now they are doing nothing to dispell that knock.

KG, Pierce & Allen have to step up and take control of this series. That is what great winning players do.

I am a diehard Celtics fan but I'm just telling it like it is.

Who's job is to get the team ready? 

Doc is the biggest loser of the bunch.  As a coach, never out of the 1st round. 


KG, Pierce and Allen have all put away teams like this. 


This is when coaches earn their money.  The make adjustments (except Doc).  They put their players and team in the best position to win (except Doc). 


If the Celtics lose in the 1st round, this is on Doc.  He had a team so much more talented that played at such a higher level all year.  He has no excuse if the Celtics lose.  He has no right to point at anyone else. 

[BASSTHUMPER]

He will probably activate Scali for this next game and send Brown or Davis to the inactive list. 

wouldnt that be nice...if you are serious or not he would do a better job...

[wdleehi]

He will probably activate Scali for this next game and send Brown or Davis to the inactive list. 

wouldnt that be nice...if you are serious or not he would do a better job...

Actually, he would do a better job defensively.  He doesn't help on the boards. 

[Celts17Pride]

If the Celtics lose in the 1st round it's because KG, Pierce & Allen have "choked". You really believe Woodson is outcoaching Rivers? NO. It's because Atlanta's Big 3 (Johnson, Smith & Hortford) are outplaying Boston's Big 3.

[wdleehi]

If the Celtics lose in the 1st round it's because KG, Pierce & Allen have "choked". You really believe Woodson is outcoaching Rivers? NO. It's because Atlanta's Big 3 (Johnson, Smith & Hortford) are outplaying Boston's Big 3.

At this point, yes. 

He has found ways to get Bibby and Joe Johnson free. 

Celtics have yet to make an adjustment to it. 

[WedmanIsMyHero]

How about this for a way to think about the issue?  Both the Big 3 AND the coach have plenty of experience getting to the playoffs and very little experience winning the playoffs (excluding the one Twolves run to the conference championship, the one Celtics run, etc).  Besides Posey and Cassell, the Celtics people with consistent winning playoff experience.  This is true for the head coach and the players.

The two biggest fears about the Celtics all year have been:

1. Doc's problems with rotations and what that will mean in the playoffs, especially after they picked up Cassell and what that would mean for Tony Allen and House

2. The Celtics play great team defense, in general, but do not have a lockdown guy to cover a LeBron or Kobe -- or in this case Joe Johnson.  Moreover, the Celtics do not have a player that can go toe to toe with the elite guys in the league.  They have to do it as a team, because individually they can't do it, especially when they are down by more than a few and need 3 pointers (which means Garnett can't just score).  Some of you might think "hey, what about Pierce", but Pierce is simply not as good as those guys at this point.  The really bad thing will be if he decides he IS just as good and trys to play that way.

This is bad.  Hopefully it will be a learning experience and is not a demonstration of a design flaw of the team this year and with this coach.

 

I'm sorry wdleehi, this is not on Doc Rivers. The Big 3 and the other players are being out played, out hustled, out composed. The Atlanta Hawks are playing with fire and the Celtics are playing like they are owed something.

The big knock on the Big 3 is they are great players on losing teams but they are not winners. Right now they are doing nothing to dispell that knock.

KG, Pierce & Allen have to step up and take control of this series. That is what great winning players do.

I am a diehard Celtics fan but I'm just telling it like it is.

Who's job is to get the team ready? 

Doc is the biggest loser of the bunch.  As a coach, never out of the 1st round. 


KG, Pierce and Allen have all put away teams like this. 


This is when coaches earn their money.  The make adjustments (except Doc).  They put their players and team in the best position to win (except Doc). 


If the Celtics lose in the 1st round, this is on Doc.  He had a team so much more talented that played at such a higher level all year.  He has no excuse if the Celtics lose.  He has no right to point at anyone else. 

[wdleehi]

All three of the stars have lead teams to the conference finals.

Cassell has two rings.  Posey has one ring.  PJ Brown spent most of his career on playoff teams.


The only players that don't have experience winning in the playoffs are the young guys (two of which have stepped up) and the head coach as a head coach.


Do the players have to play better?  yes.  Do they take some of the blame?  Yes. 

But the person who can (and should) be replaced if (and that is still a big if) the Celtics lose to the Hawks is Doc.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I am with you on Doc. . .I would have fired him over the summer once the team was good and had a chance to win something.  But on the players.

I contest the fact that the Big 3 and the Celtics in general have winning playoff experience. 

1. Getting to the conference finals once and then losing when you are a star in the NBA in your 30s is *not* winning playoff experience, it means that you have generally been on losing teams.  None of them have even been to the finals.  The fact that they are old arguably makes it worse.  When you are young, everyone seems to say you don't really realize what you are doing and overthink things, etc.  But now that the Big 3 are older, with their wisdom comes the fear of losing and what has looked like playoff tightness on the part of the Celtics.  And all of this is more true for Doc, who never won a championship as a player and was never even on a great team as a player, and has never won a playoff series as a coach.

2. Role players with rings is different from starters with rings.  Especially given how poorly Cassell is playing.

3. Example from Game 4: With about 2:30 left, Garnett reeled off 4 straight points (scoring at 2:40 and 2:02) -- like he had finally realized the game might be at risk.  Where was that the whole fourth quarter?  A guy like Tim Duncan, with the rings and the experience, would have known to turn it on earlier.  I am NOT blaming Garnett for the loss.  I am happy to blame Doc.  But I think that sequence exemplified the experience gap.

Anyways, point #1 here is what matters.  What do you think?

All three of the stars have lead teams to the conference finals.

Cassell has two rings.  Posey has one ring.  PJ Brown spent most of his career on playoff teams.


The only players that don't have experience winning in the playoffs are the young guys (two of which have stepped up) and the head coach as a head coach.


Do the players have to play better?  yes.  Do they take some of the blame?  Yes. 

But the person who can (and should) be replaced if (and that is still a big if) the Celtics lose to the Hawks is Doc.