Trade Idea: Celtics - Pelicans

[Vermont Green]

I don't understand what Derik Queen has shown to make Zion expendable.

it's called "cheap, cost-controlled talent".

What has Zion shown to make him not expendable?  He has been on a downward trajectory since 2021, up until last season where he was a solid starter for 62 games with < 30 min per game.  I have asked this before but what ceiling are you placing on Zion for the next say 5 seasons?  Can he be as good as Julius Randle but with fewer games expected?

The logical trade here is Zion + Murphy for Brown + Hauser.   Do you do that?  Would you expect draft picks from NOP?

[Who]

I don't understand what Derik Queen has shown to make Zion expendable.

it's called "cheap, cost-controlled talent".

What has Zion shown to make him not expendable?  He has been on a downward trajectory since 2021, up until last season where he was a solid starter for 62 games with < 30 min per game.  I have asked this before but what ceiling are you placing on Zion for the next say 5 seasons?  Can he be as good as Julius Randle but with fewer games expected?

The logical trade here is Zion + Murphy for Brown + Hauser.   Do you do that?  Would you expect draft picks from NOP?

I thought he deserved to be made expendable last summer. I am surprised they still view him that way. I thought losing 50lbs & getting into the best shape of his career would buy Zion some grace. Zion seemed to buy into everything Joe Dumars wanted him to be about. Yet ...

Maybe Zion wasn't as a professional / wasn't as bought in as we were told he was.

Zion is such a high upside player. That was a big step he took last year to show he cares / wants to be more professional / wants to win. I thought it would get him more buy-in from the front office. It hasn't. That is strange to me.

[Who]

Derik Queen

529 of his 748 FGAs came within 10 feet.
That is about 71% of his overall FG attempts.

26-72 FGA on 10-15 footers. 36.1% FG.
22-59 FGA on 16-23 footers. 37.3% FG.
23-88 FGA on three pointers. 26.1% FG 39.2% eFG.

So about a 70/30 split on inside shots vs jumpers outside of 10 feet. And he 71-219 on those jump shots for an eFG of 37.6%.

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I expected him to have taken more jump-shots. More of a 60-40 split or even a 50-50 split. Not great. Undersized big. Middling athleticism. He is going to have more jump-shots if he wants to be a prolific scorer in this league.

[Who]

On Zion & the Celtics,

This talk about Zion not being a great fit with D Queen because of their combined lack of shooting. I was thinking Queen is a much better shooter and more skilled big man than Queta. I don't think Queta will work with Zion. I have never liked Zion with a rim runner at center. I have always wanted him to have a stretch 5 like Giannis had with B Lopez.

I think BOS would have to go after Myles Turner to pair with Zion if BOS did trade for Zion. Might have to move on from Queta too. Queta would get a decent trade return. A starting caliber wing or guard.

Same issue with Nic Claxton. Not a good enough shooter to pair with Zion. With Naz Reid, both Naz & Zion have limitations as defenders / rebounders. I don't think they would be a good pairing.

[Celtics4ever]

We can probably get Myles Turner for the TPE straight up if MIL start rebuilding after trading Giannis. Without sending them any picks. Why would they want to keep him? Better to free up cap space. I don't think there is much of a market for him. Not much competition to drive up the price.

Myles is a weak rebounder for his size.

[jambr380]

NBA insider Brandon 'Scoop B.' Robinson confirmed Fischer's report of the Pelicans' interest in Brown and said the framework of a potential deal to get him to New Orleans is guard Dejounte Murray, wing Trey Murphy III and "significant draft capital."

Brown for Murray and Murphy plus draft capital does not interest me all that much, to be honest, plus it adds $2.7M in salary.  If you could then flip some of the draft capital and use the $27M TPE (which you would not have to use for this trade or you could generate a new one) to trade for a starting center, then the team could look pretty good I guess.  This center would have to fit the $27M TPE, that does not buy much of a center these days (Myles Turner, Naz Reid, Nic Claxton).

White
Murray
Murphy
Tatum
Turner, Reid, or Claxton?

And still no speedy PG that so many are looking to add.  I am not sold on this.

Dejounte Murray is a speedy PG. Strong defender.

D White will be the two guard.

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I wouldn't want Naz Reid as a starting center. He is a weak defender. Cannot anchor a defense. He is either a PF or a 6th man. I don't think he can start at C. Too many air-head type moments on off-ball defense.

We can probably get Myles Turner for the TPE straight up if MIL start rebuilding after trading Giannis. Without sending them any picks. Why would they want to keep him? Better to free up cap space. I don't think there is much of a market for him. Not much competition to drive up the price.

It would take draft picks to get Nic Claxton. Probably 2 firsts.

----------------

Agreed. Not sold on it either. If I am going to trade Jaylen and break up the Tatum / Jaylen duo, I need a sure thing. Those 2 have had too much success together to break them up for anything less.

So I wouldn't do a Zion for Jaylen trade either. Too much of a question mark health wise.

Murray was a speedy PG before going to Atlanta and didn't look nearly as promising as he did in SA.  He seems slower and less effective as a result of those injuries.  Taking on Murray is similar to taking on Zion --> hoping an injured player is able to bounce back to their best form when it's not terribly likely.  taking them is more of a benefit to NO to clear their books of problematic contracts.  would require significant draft capital coming to the C's and NOP only has their own first rounders to deal which won't be great picks once they have Jaylen

I definitely don't think the bolded part is true. Jaylen on the Pelicans should place them firmly in that 4-10 draft range where we would actually have the best chance of landing a high draft pick. Jaylen had a really good year this year, but removing Trey Murphy plus one of Murray/Zion and substituting Jaylen isn't going to suddenly make them a playoff team. They still have a long way to go.

I'm not excited about any Jaylen/NOP trade without multiple 1sts, though - seems like it has the chance to not work out in our favor.

[slamtheking]

NBA insider Brandon 'Scoop B.' Robinson confirmed Fischer's report of the Pelicans' interest in Brown and said the framework of a potential deal to get him to New Orleans is guard Dejounte Murray, wing Trey Murphy III and "significant draft capital."

Brown for Murray and Murphy plus draft capital does not interest me all that much, to be honest, plus it adds $2.7M in salary.  If you could then flip some of the draft capital and use the $27M TPE (which you would not have to use for this trade or you could generate a new one) to trade for a starting center, then the team could look pretty good I guess.  This center would have to fit the $27M TPE, that does not buy much of a center these days (Myles Turner, Naz Reid, Nic Claxton).

White
Murray
Murphy
Tatum
Turner, Reid, or Claxton?

And still no speedy PG that so many are looking to add.  I am not sold on this.

Dejounte Murray is a speedy PG. Strong defender.

D White will be the two guard.

-------------

I wouldn't want Naz Reid as a starting center. He is a weak defender. Cannot anchor a defense. He is either a PF or a 6th man. I don't think he can start at C. Too many air-head type moments on off-ball defense.

We can probably get Myles Turner for the TPE straight up if MIL start rebuilding after trading Giannis. Without sending them any picks. Why would they want to keep him? Better to free up cap space. I don't think there is much of a market for him. Not much competition to drive up the price.

It would take draft picks to get Nic Claxton. Probably 2 firsts.

----------------

Agreed. Not sold on it either. If I am going to trade Jaylen and break up the Tatum / Jaylen duo, I need a sure thing. Those 2 have had too much success together to break them up for anything less.

So I wouldn't do a Zion for Jaylen trade either. Too much of a question mark health wise.

Murray was a speedy PG before going to Atlanta and didn't look nearly as promising as he did in SA.  He seems slower and less effective as a result of those injuries.  Taking on Murray is similar to taking on Zion --> hoping an injured player is able to bounce back to their best form when it's not terribly likely.  taking them is more of a benefit to NO to clear their books of problematic contracts.  would require significant draft capital coming to the C's and NOP only has their own first rounders to deal which won't be great picks once they have Jaylen

I definitely don't think the bolded part is true. Jaylen on the Pelicans should place them firmly in that 4-10 draft range where we would actually have the best chance of landing a high draft pick. Jaylen had a really good year this year, but removing Trey Murphy plus one of Murray/Zion and substituting Jaylen isn't going to suddenly make them a playoff team. They still have a long way to go.

I'm not excited about any Jaylen/NOP trade without multiple 1sts, though - seems like it has the chance to not work out in our favor.

that's what I thought would happen this year (maybe not quite that low but definitely lottery team) and JB proved me wrong.  add him to either Zion/Murray, Queen, Fears, Missi, Bey  and Poole and that's not a whole lot different from what he had to work with on the C's this year with the exception of getting a top player returning at the end of the season.

[slamtheking]

I don't understand what Derik Queen has shown to make Zion expendable.

it's called "cheap, cost-controlled talent".

What has Zion shown to make him not expendable?  He has been on a downward trajectory since 2021, up until last season where he was a solid starter for 62 games with < 30 min per game.  I have asked this before but what ceiling are you placing on Zion for the next say 5 seasons?  Can he be as good as Julius Randle but with fewer games expected?

The logical trade here is Zion + Murphy for Brown + Hauser.   Do you do that?  Would you expect draft picks from NOP?

I'd expect 2-3 first rounders from NO at a minimum.  I wouldn't do the trade because we're giving up the best player and even though Zion can be a real force when he plays, the problem is the infrequency with which he plays. 

[slightly biased bias fan]

In this hypothetical scenario, the Celtics would have the ability to rest Zion because they could move every player up in position, and not struggle offensively.

Prichard
White
Murphy III
Tatum
Porzingis/Queta

The theory would also be that having the right mentors around Zion and playing far away from negative influences, would turn his career around. The biggest issue for me would be finding out the level of damage he has done to his body as a result of his physical negligence.

Having the tandem of Zion Williamson and Trey Murphy III to replace Brown would offer alternative options that the Celtics have been lacking last season, elite shooting (Murphy III) and rim presence (Williamson). I also like the idea of offensive hierarchy.

[slightly biased bias fan]

For New Orleans, I love the balance Brown would bring to their starting five and their 10 men units would be solid.

Fears
Murray
Brown
Jones
Queen

Poole
Hawkins
Bey
Hauser
Missi

[Goldstar88]

In this hypothetical scenario, the Celtics would have the ability to rest Zion because they could move every player up in position, and not struggle offensively.

Prichard
White
Murphy III
Tatum
Porzingis/Queta

The theory would also be that having the right mentors around Zion and playing far away from negative influences, would turn his career around. The biggest issue for me would be finding out the level of damage he has done to his body as a result of his physical negligence.

Having the tandem of Zion Williamson and Trey Murphy III to replace Brown would offer alternative options that the Celtics have been lacking last season, elite shooting (Murphy III) and rim presence (Williamson). I also like the idea of offensive hierarchy.

I agree on the bolded. Zion is still young at 25, so I am not concerned about injuries that he had back in 2019 and 2021. He also played in 35 consecutive games this season which he had never done before. With the significant weight loss, I expect him to continue trending in the right direction.

[DrJasper]

I dont know? but I feel like I would rather keep Jaylen actually! He is a ECF mvp, finals mvp etc and didnt just have a major injury. Additionally we could get even more for Tatum right?

Tatum and Hauser for Trey Murphy and Zion Williamson plus picks.
Then get Myles Turner with our trade exception for some picks.

I just looked at the games Zion had against the spurs, he flat out won the matchup with the best player in the league and didnt look scared at all driving to the rim against him.
I feel if he gets even healthier in Boston he could be Charles Barkley. He plays for the worst franchise in the nba, maybe its a buy low opportunity?

Trey Murphy would be a great replacement for Tatum in some aspects, especially on defense and as a spacer and shot creator.

White - Brown - Murphy - Zion - Turner
+ Pritchard, Queta, Hugo, Walsh, Scheiermann and Harper Jr. of the bench sounds like the best team in the east when healthy of course.

[Goldstar88]

I dont know? but I feel like I would rather keep Jaylen actually! He is a ECF mvp, finals mvp etc and didnt just have a major injury. Additionally we could get even more for Tatum right?

Tatum and Hauser for Trey Murphy and Zion Williamson plus picks.
Then get Myles Turner with our trade exception for some picks.

I just looked at the games Zion had against the spurs, he flat out won the matchup with the best player in the league and didnt look scared at all driving to the rim against him.
I feel if he gets even healthier in Boston he could be Charles Barkley. He plays for the worst franchise in the nba, maybe its a buy low opportunity?

Trey Murphy would be a great replacement for Tatum in some aspects, especially on defense and as a spacer and shot creator.

White - Brown - Murphy - Zion - Turner
+ Pritchard, Queta, Hugo, Walsh, Scheiermann and Harper Jr. of the bench sounds like the best team in the east when healthy of course.

I think Tatum will be himself next season. He looked really good when he came back, averaging 22pts/10rebs/5ast. Tatum at 90% of what he was is still better than Jaylen Brown. JT made the NBA first team 4 times for a reason. Brown has not made it once. Also, I feel a lot better with Tatum having the ball in his hands. He does not turn the ball over like JB does.  I would not trade JT.

[jambr380]

I dont know? but I feel like I would rather keep Jaylen actually! He is a ECF mvp, finals mvp etc and didnt just have a major injury. Additionally we could get even more for Tatum right?

Tatum and Hauser for Trey Murphy and Zion Williamson plus picks.
Then get Myles Turner with our trade exception for some picks.

I just looked at the games Zion had against the spurs, he flat out won the matchup with the best player in the league and didnt look scared at all driving to the rim against him.
I feel if he gets even healthier in Boston he could be Charles Barkley. He plays for the worst franchise in the nba, maybe its a buy low opportunity?

Trey Murphy would be a great replacement for Tatum in some aspects, especially on defense and as a spacer and shot creator.

White - Brown - Murphy - Zion - Turner
+ Pritchard, Queta, Hugo, Walsh, Scheiermann and Harper Jr. of the bench sounds like the best team in the east when healthy of course.

I think Tatum will be himself next season. He looked really good when he came back, averaging 22pts/10rebs/5ast. Tatum at 90% of what he was is still better than Jaylen Brown. JT made the NBA first team 4 times for a reason. Brown has not made it once. Also, I feel a lot better with Tatum having the ball in his hands. He does not turn the ball over like JB does.  I would not trade JT.

If it had been Brown that was injured and Tatum was carrying the team this year, he might have finally won that sought after MVP. Team likely would have had a few more wins, he would have had better counting stats, and he already had the pedigree with all those All-NBA 1st Teams.

Not trying to say that Brown wasn't valuable, but those guys are on two different tiers. You only trade Tatum for Wemby or Jokic. Maybe Flagg is you are starting over and really confident in his prospects.