Time for a change?

[No Nickname]

The Ringer: From what I heard, they made an offer in the past week. @BillSimmons and @ZachLowe_NBA discuss the latest on the potential of Boston making a move for Giannis Antetokounmpo. Bill Simmons: I think they dove in. From what I heard, they made an offer in the past week, a couple of days before I mentioned it on Thursday. I don?t know what the offer was, and I don?t know who?s in it. But they are in, the hat was in the ring, which I was really surprised by, as I said on Thursday, because I thought they were sitting it out. And I don?t know, Do you think something changed. Do you think they looked at this from every angle, or that they realized oh, that?s it from the Miami offer? We can beat that. Like what would have changed their mindset? Because I do not think they were in on Giannis at the beginning of the offseason.

Bill Simmons really just makes a platform out of saying a bunch of nothing and "I don't knows". Wild

I'd be more interested if Lowe added any input or what he heard but it sounds like he didn't really say anything of substance either implying he's not really sure or hasn't heard any significant developments.

Seems tho that this line of narrative is lining up from a lot of folks that cover the NBA. I do expect it will be done by the draft to someone. I still do not believe Boston trades Brown. I think Brad tweaks the fringes with mid level and cheap depth and they run it back pretty much as it.

I still think the Cs are gearing up for 2027. At the end of the day the line of thinking for this upcoming season from Brad will be Tatum will be back healthy, another year of development for Hugo and Baylor and they add a first round pick. Probably try to add a servicable big and they go from there.

Personally I'm fine with that plan. When they reset the repeater tax, it'll allow them the following year to potentially go for it and add 2 significant players (or 1 significant player + 1 great role player type) to Jaylen/Tatum/PP/Queta + maybe White. Similar to adding Jrue/KP in 2024.

Giannis to me besides some of the scheme fits and questions also concerns me from an injury standpoint, and he's 32 now. I also think it's not bad to unleash Baylor, Queta, Hugo and Harper this next season and keep developing them.

They can still add 2 solid players (1 big man) with the help of the TPE and MLE, like you said.

I like Queta as a back up big. Not a starter. I would like to see Hauser moved. I think Baylor can do everything he does and more. Hugo has to learn how to shoot and Joe needs to be more consistent with his minutes. I have no idea what Harper is yet but I am curious if he can grind out a spot.

Your assessment of Hauser vs Baylor is waaaaaaaaay off.  Baylor's defense is atrocious.  Hauser is light years ahead of him defensively.

And offensively, neither of them do anything off the dribble.  They're both spot-up shooters.  And Hauser has proven his worth over several years while Baylor has had only one year of so-so success.

They both shot 39% from 3 last year. 

Hauser averaging 9.2ppg in 24.8mpg.

Baylor averaging 5.5ppg in 18.6mpg.

Their rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals were virtually identical, just a few .01% difference. 

Give me the guy who's shot 41% from 3 for five years, and plays way better defense.  Baylor is a turnstile.

[Neurotic Guy]

Adding Giannis immediately upgrades both the starting and backup 5.  Queta will be an excellent bench big and will be able to solidly spell Giannis.  Thinking of the competitors' rotations at the 5 the Cs would be right in there with Holmgren-Hartenstein, Wemby-Luke, KAT-Robinson,...

I'm warming up to the idea and getting a bit hopeful about it.  I don't love the risk, but the possible reward is exciting.

This is assuming they add another center, because right now the projected starting lineup IF this trade happens is PP-White-Tatum-Giannis-Queta. If they do though, then Queta as a backup would be nice. Still need another guard or wing with the MLE probably (or another trade involving Hauser + picks)

I think he's assuming that Giannis would be the starting center, which makes sense.

Yes - that was the thought. I love Q coming off the bench replacing Giannis and getting 25 minutes or so at the 5- especially v. backup centers.  35 minutes a night at the 5 for GA is not ideal, but I guess one of my recurring thoughts is how much I love the growth of Q's game and how much of an impact I think he'd have v backup centers.  And... not getting in early foul trouble.

[Vermont Green]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

[jambr380]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

I don't know, I can see it. It would need to be another 3-team deal with White going somewhere, but I think White does have the value to get that done. We always have the TPE, but I don't think we are going to have enough picks to get it done without any player assets.

If this did happen - Brown and White for Giannis and Murphy - we would need to get really lucky on a guard signing. Like, the Wolves don't want to commit full nontaxpayer MLE money to Dosunmu lucky. I like guys like Simons and Coby White, but defense at the guard spot would immediately become a priority.

[Celtics2021]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

It really depends how much more than Jaylen would Brad need to send for Giannis.  It is not difficult to fit the salaries of Giannis and Murphy onto the team if Jaylen is moved, so then it is just about having enough assets to convince New Orleans to move Murphy.  White fits onto the Celtics just fine salarywise with Murphy on the roster thanks to the TPE.   Brown for Giannis and Hauser for Murphy makes the salaries work for both deals, it just depends on what other pieces are required in each deal in terms of fair trade value.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

I don't know, I can see it. It would need to be another 3-team deal with White going somewhere, but I think White does have the value to get that done. We always have the TPE, but I don't think we are going to have enough picks to get it done without any player assets.

If this did happen - Brown and White for Giannis and Murphy - we would need to get really lucky on a guard signing. Like, the Wolves don't want to commit full nontaxpayer MLE money to Dosunmu lucky. I like guys like Simons and Coby White, but defense at the guard spot would immediately become a priority.

Doesn?t Brads job become a lot easier once the BIG issue is so much closer to addressed? All-NBA level 2-way bigs don?t grow on trees.

[Who]

Giannis at center is a bad idea.  The team would need to sign a stretch center to start.  Someone that can give 20 mpg or so and keep spacing and allow Giannis to at least start at PF woth Tatum at SF.  Giannis can play some at center, but he shouldn't start there.

Yeah I agree and this is my main concern about getting Giannis. Queta is not a good match with him but I do still like Queta so do you try to trade him for a better fitting big man or how do you get that stretch center. I would still trade for Giannis though but this would then become the main concern or priority.

Maybe BOS could trade Queta to Orlando for Wendell Carter Jr.

WCJ is not a great shooter but he plays on the perimeter and vacates the paint. Gives Giannis the room to attack.

[Vermont Green]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

I don't know, I can see it. It would need to be another 3-team deal with White going somewhere, but I think White does have the value to get that done. We always have the TPE, but I don't think we are going to have enough picks to get it done without any player assets.

If this did happen - Brown and White for Giannis and Murphy - we would need to get really lucky on a guard signing. Like, the Wolves don't want to commit full nontaxpayer MLE money to Dosunmu lucky. I like guys like Simons and Coby White, but defense at the guard spot would immediately become a priority.

I can see Brown for Giannis, BOS probably needs to add something, but I don't see White for Murphy.  I would rather have White to go with Tatum and Giannis.  I agree that there would be 3rd teams with interesting in White, but I don't see why NOP would want to trade Murphy unless they were getting Brown.  And for BOS, I am not sure trading White helps them win now with Tatum and Giannis.

Celtics2021 indicated that Hauser out and Murphy in through the TPE works, and I agree, it works.  But other than saving money, why would NOP do this?  Even if BOS adds in Gonzalez and/or draft picks, why would NOP do this?  I would be all for a deal of Hauser for Murphy.

[Who]

Giannis at center is a bad idea.  The team would need to sign a stretch center to start.  Someone that can give 20 mpg or so and keep spacing and allow Giannis to at least start at PF woth Tatum at SF.  Giannis can play some at center, but he shouldn't start there.

I'd love to see Giannis switch to a full time center for this closing stage in his career. It puts too much pressure on his teams to find a stretch 5 to play alongside him. He would have more success if he embraced becoming a full time center instead.

I am not optimistic about him doing so. His track record shows his reluctance. Might have to wait until he gets even older (35+yo) before he is ready to embrace the change.

[Who]

If the trade is just Brown for Giannis, then after the trade, the projected starters in my mind would be updated as:

White---------->Pritchard
Brown--------->White
Hauser-------->Hauser
Tatum--------->Tatum
Queta--------->Giannis

So you go from Queta as a starter to Pritchard.  Hauser is a starter in either case.  I have been thinking that a trade with MIL would also include Hauser and Portis, that could result in:

Pritchard
White
Tatum
Portis
Giannis

I am not decided on this but I am leaning towards Hauser over Portis as the 5th starter there.

I am not a big Portis fan. Not wild about his fit here either.

I like Hauser because he will fire up a huge amount of threes. Portis fires up a good amount but not a large amount. Portis has no ball-handling or passing. Portis does give you an iso option / post up option that Hauser does not have. Overall, I prefer Hauser's superior shooting over Portis' iso game. Hauser plays with more speed / more movement offensively. He facilitates more for the team with his shooting threat and movement.

I don't know. I am bit nervous about Tatum moving back to SF. He does so well as a defender & rebounder at PF. I am not sure he will do as well at SF. He is such a strong rebounder I love having him closer to the basket at PF than SF. He can influence the game more. Tatum gets better matchups to attack offensively at PF than at SF. Slower defenders. Tatum has more of an advantage there. 

Portis is a solid defender but he is more histrionics than impact defensively. He beats his chest and plays with intensity more than he bothers his opponent. I think he gets overrated as a defender. I am not sure how big the gap is there between him and Hauser (average defender).

[Vermont Green]

Giannis at center is a bad idea.  The team would need to sign a stretch center to start.  Someone that can give 20 mpg or so and keep spacing and allow Giannis to at least start at PF woth Tatum at SF.  Giannis can play some at center, but he shouldn't start there.

I'd love to see Giannis switch to a full time center for this closing stage in his career. It puts too much pressure on his teams to find a stretch 5 to play alongside him. He would have more success if he embraced becoming a full time center instead.

I am not optimistic about him doing so. His track record shows his reluctance. Might have to wait until he gets even older (35+yo) before he is ready to embrace the change.

Yeah, I get this concern of his willingness to play center.  I don't know of course, I guess only Giannis knows.  I think it is different when he is the focal point of team as he was in MIL.  In BOS, on a team with Tatum, it is different.  If he won't accept a different role until he is 35 or whatever, no need to do the deal.  They will have to discuss an extension as part of any deal, so they can probably discuss this also.  I would not offer an extension if he is trying to demand he will only play certain positions.  To me, if that is his stipulation, that he will only play certain positions, that is a deal breaker for me.

I think he would come in with a different attitude though.  The whole reason he wants to be traded is so he can win.

[jambr380]

I think Brad really wants Giannis and Trey Murphy out of this somehow

This is nearly impossible in my view.  I see no way that BOS gets Giannis without Brown in the deal.  So that would mean you have to trade White to get Murphy, which does not make sense for either team.

I see these as mutually exclusive, if BOS gets Giannis, they are not going to get any of these NOP players too.  Or is they decide to do a trade with NOP for Murphy with Zion or Murray for Brown, that means Giannis is going somewhere else.

I don't know, I can see it. It would need to be another 3-team deal with White going somewhere, but I think White does have the value to get that done. We always have the TPE, but I don't think we are going to have enough picks to get it done without any player assets.

If this did happen - Brown and White for Giannis and Murphy - we would need to get really lucky on a guard signing. Like, the Wolves don't want to commit full nontaxpayer MLE money to Dosunmu lucky. I like guys like Simons and Coby White, but defense at the guard spot would immediately become a priority.

Doesn?t Brads job become a lot easier once the BIG issue is so much closer to addressed? All-NBA level 2-way bigs don?t grow on trees.

Yeah, a lot easier to find a guard than it is to find a two-way center. I'd happily take KP back at the MLE, but we haven't heard anything about that. Even with Giannis, I'd take KP and then make a trade for a guard

[Neurotic Guy]

Having two guys on a team who are hovering around top 5 in the league is pretty special. Tends to only happen in LA.  It?s like starting a movie cast with Timothy Chalamet and Saoirse Ronan (may not be the correct two but you get the idea), the hard part is done. Filling the roles isn?t necessarily easy but far easier than getting the superstars on board. And people looking for a team to join want to be on the team with two superstars.

I get that putting the jigsaw of a team together is fun, but think of when the Cs had two top ten players. Would have to be KG and Pierce and before that, Bird and McHale  Yes, supporting cast for each pair was huge, but throw either of those duos on any other team and again, the hardest part is done.