I miss Danny's drafting...

[BitterJim]

He did have a soft spot for tweeners.  I think he took ball players who played well but often slipped due to their size.

Yeah, I think it's the basketball version of "Moneyball":  teams need to look at where they can get the most production relative to dollars spent.  Often, that will come from guys who lack ideal size, etc.

100%. He saw value in tweeners and guards who couldn't shoot, and he found some very good players that way (and plenty of dudes... the draft is a crapshoot). He (like everyone else) would have preferred skilled boys with great size and guards who could do it all, but where we were picking everyone had major flaws. You just have to decide which flaws are deal breakers and which ones you can live with

[Moranis]

The Kyrie trade is a hard one for me to wrap my head around in hindsight.

At the time, I hated it, mostly because I thought Kyrie and IT4 were essentially equal as players.  I was wrong on that; IT was completely cooked after his injury.

The trade was:  IT, Crowder, Zizic, #1 (Collin Sexton) for Kyrie

None of the outgoing players amounted to much.  Crowder remained a rotation player for a few more years, but he was never a core piece.  Collin Sexton turned out to be a decent player, but never a difference maker.

In return, we got two seasons of All-Star play, including Kyrie making 2nd Team All-NBA. 

At the time, giving up the #7 pick for a perennial All-Star made sense, assuming the team knew that IT4 was finished.  Danny's plan thereafter was to add Anthony Davis, which seemed like a good bet.  He was hoping for a core of Horford / Davis / Tatum / Hayward / Kyrie (with Brown and Smart likely being traded in the Davis deal).

If Kyrie had kept his head on straight, that could have set up a dynasty.  So, it's hard for me to say it was a bad trade based upon the thought process.  And, I don't see it as a disaster, because we didn't end up losing any core pieces (and quickly replaced Kyrie with Kemba, who looked like an All-NBA player until getting hurt).

When I think a "disaster" trade, I think more in line with Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers.

It wasn't Sexton it was the 8th pick in the draft.  Sexton almost certainly would not have been Danny's selection.  I don't know if Danny would have taken SGA who went 11th, but SGA was certainly more Danny's profile than Sexton was.  If I had to bet, I think Danny would have taken Mikal Bridges who went 10th or maybe Miles Bridges who went 12th.  Michael Porter was also on the board as teams were worried about his back.  He ended up 14th.  During the draft, I was stunned at how far Porter fell.

[Moranis]

Kyrie trade was a calculated gamble.  It didn't pan out but I wouldn't label it a disaster.  It didn't set the franchise back that much in the grand scheme of things and, as Roy mentioned, Celtics were able to sell high on IT (who was never the same) and nothing outgoing really came back to bite the team in the butt.

I agree with this.  I never viewed the Kyrie trade as a bad trade.  The big "what if" here is the Gordon Hayward injury.  Kyrie is a head case, and a hard guy for fans to root for, but he was a very good player in the prime of his career at the time of the trade, a superstar.  I loved IT, but he really had one superstar season.  He wasn't a superstar before and he wasn't after.

I think he had much worse trades, such at the following:

Danny Ainge (in his first year as Celtics GM) traded Eric Williams, Tony Battie, and Kedrick Brown to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, Michael Stewart, and a second-round pick.

Not sure what we got for that second round pick but Ricky Davis was a disaster in my mind.  This trade caused Jim O'Brien to resign as coach.

Davis was a knucklehead, but he was fine here.  The #2 turned into Ryan Gomes and we ended up trading Davis for Wally and a potential #1.

2003-2007 was a complex stretch.  The team was always in cap hell trying to dig out of mistakes mostly made by the previous regime and, on the court, you had a flawed team regressing after the '01-02 ECF run.  Danny recognized this but it also required making a lot of somewhat lateral moves to try and dig out from under it.

It was a multi year project to clean up the mess and figure out the direction of the team.

They were in cap hell in large part because of moves Danny made.  Baker was the only bad contract when he took over and he was gone soon after.  Trading Walker, Williams, Battie for LaFrentz, Mills, Davis is what really hamstrung the team going forward.  Raef, in particular, was an albatross contract. 

[Moranis]

Kyrie trade was a calculated gamble.  It didn't pan out but I wouldn't label it a disaster.  It didn't set the franchise back that much in the grand scheme of things and, as Roy mentioned, Celtics were able to sell high on IT (who was never the same) and nothing outgoing really came back to bite the team in the butt.

I mean SGA would be nice.  But who needs the reigning MVP and likely back-to-back winner.

I've said on here many times the biggest flaw in that trade that Danny made was not necessarily acquiring Kyrie but failing to pull the trigger on the necessary follow up trade.  Kyrie was always a Robin, he needed a Batman, and I'm sorry Hayward wasn't a Batman.  Had Danny pulled the trigger with the Spurs and acquired Kawhi, the Kyrie trade would have been like Ray Allen was while Kawhi would have been the KG.  It would have cost Brown and Smart, but Boston almost certainly would have won the 2019 title that Kawhi led Toronto to if Boston had Kawhi, Kyrie, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Rozier, Morris, Baynes, Theis.  Team might have actually beaten a healthy Warriors that year and they would have steamrolled through the east. 

You can't give up quality assets to acquire Robin and then not make the available move to acquire Batman.

[slamtheking]

Kyrie trade was a calculated gamble.  It didn't pan out but I wouldn't label it a disaster.  It didn't set the franchise back that much in the grand scheme of things and, as Roy mentioned, Celtics were able to sell high on IT (who was never the same) and nothing outgoing really came back to bite the team in the butt.

I mean SGA would be nice.  But who needs the reigning MVP and likely back-to-back winner.

I've said on here many times the biggest flaw in that trade that Danny made was not necessarily acquiring Kyrie but failing to pull the trigger on the necessary follow up trade.  Kyrie was always a Robin, he needed a Batman, and I'm sorry Hayward wasn't a Batman.  Had Danny pulled the trigger with the Spurs and acquired Kawhi, the Kyrie trade would have been like Ray Allen was while Kawhi would have been the KG.  It would have cost Brown and Smart, but Boston almost certainly would have won the 2019 title that Kawhi led Toronto to if Boston had Kawhi, Kyrie, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Rozier, Morris, Baynes, Theis.  Team might have actually beaten a healthy Warriors that year and they would have steamrolled through the east. 

You can't give up quality assets to acquire Robin and then not make the available move to acquire Batman.

100% unfounded speculation that you've been pushing for years.

Here's a more likely scenario if that trade had been made as you've bemoaned for years:
- they may have won the title or maybe not.  no guarantee they even get to the finals.
- Kawhi most likely leaves at the end of the season to go to LA just like he did to Toronto so we're now without 2 key players after that deal you want in addition to no Kawhi.  Jaylen turned out to be a Finals MVP and Smart was a key trade piece for a player that was huge for us in getting that 2024 title.
- Kyrie still likely becomes the malcontent he became and leaves.  No tears shed but another key player in your pretend title team is gone.
- Hayward never gets close to his pre-injury self.  this isn't even speculation - just what happens. 
- C's only viable star player is Tatum with little support around him to improve the odds of the team getting to a Finals.  With no real help around him to get to the finals, does Tatum start looking for greener pastures? 

I'll take the current status of the team over what you want.  2 players in their prime that are in MVP discussions, a solid supporting cast and a cleaned up financial situation that will allow them to be players in free agency and trades going forward. 

[Moranis]

Kyrie trade was a calculated gamble.  It didn't pan out but I wouldn't label it a disaster.  It didn't set the franchise back that much in the grand scheme of things and, as Roy mentioned, Celtics were able to sell high on IT (who was never the same) and nothing outgoing really came back to bite the team in the butt.

I mean SGA would be nice.  But who needs the reigning MVP and likely back-to-back winner.

I've said on here many times the biggest flaw in that trade that Danny made was not necessarily acquiring Kyrie but failing to pull the trigger on the necessary follow up trade.  Kyrie was always a Robin, he needed a Batman, and I'm sorry Hayward wasn't a Batman.  Had Danny pulled the trigger with the Spurs and acquired Kawhi, the Kyrie trade would have been like Ray Allen was while Kawhi would have been the KG.  It would have cost Brown and Smart, but Boston almost certainly would have won the 2019 title that Kawhi led Toronto to if Boston had Kawhi, Kyrie, Tatum, Horford, Hayward, Rozier, Morris, Baynes, Theis.  Team might have actually beaten a healthy Warriors that year and they would have steamrolled through the east. 

You can't give up quality assets to acquire Robin and then not make the available move to acquire Batman.

100% unfounded speculation that you've been pushing for years.

Here's a more likely scenario if that trade had been made as you've bemoaned for years:
- they may have won the title or maybe not.  no guarantee they even get to the finals.
- Kawhi most likely leaves at the end of the season to go to LA just like he did to Toronto so we're now without 2 key players after that deal you want in addition to no Kawhi.  Jaylen turned out to be a Finals MVP and Smart was a key trade piece for a player that was huge for us in getting that 2024 title.
- Kyrie still likely becomes the malcontent he became and leaves.  No tears shed but another key player in your pretend title team is gone.
- Hayward never gets close to his pre-injury self.  this isn't even speculation - just what happens. 
- C's only viable star player is Tatum with little support around him to improve the odds of the team getting to a Finals.  With no real help around him to get to the finals, does Tatum start looking for greener pastures? 

I'll take the current status of the team over what you want.  2 players in their prime that are in MVP discussions, a solid supporting cast and a cleaned up financial situation that will allow them to be players in free agency and trades going forward.

actually Ive been pretty vocal that I wouldn't have acquired Irving.  I said it at the time and every time since.  The team should have kept the 8th pick. I would have taken MPJ, but I do think either Bridges or SGA were Danny type picks.   I would have moved off Crowder that off season and maybe IT4, but that one was harder as I certainly had no idea how injured he was.   

I just think acquiring Irving without the follow-up was a mistake and one that set the team back.   7 years later they did finally get a title, helped significantly from moves Stevens made, but they certainly could have had more titles had Danny not done that trade, especially if he made the right pick at 8.   Just because the Cavs took the wrong guy doesnt mean Boston would have. 

[libermaniac]

[There?s no way you can say FULL STOP yet as Brad?s resume is totally incomplete compared to Danny?s.

Full stop.

Full stop Roy? 🤣

Again, full stop Roy? Cenac and Mitchell beg to differ.

[Roy H.]

[There?s no way you can say FULL STOP yet as Brad?s resume is totally incomplete compared to Danny?s.

Full stop.

Full stop Roy?

Again, full stop Roy? Cenac and Mitchell beg to differ.

You're trying to mic drop after Summer League?  I guess I am withholding the hall of fame induction after CCJ shot 36% from the field.  If he becomes a useful rotation player, that will be a win to me.

And yep, still taking Danny.

[Goldstar88]

[There?s no way you can say FULL STOP yet as Brad?s resume is totally incomplete compared to Danny?s.

Full stop.

Full stop Roy? 🤣

Again, full stop Roy? Cenac and Mitchell beg to differ.

You're trying to mic drop after Summer League?

And yep, still taking Danny.

Yeah, Danny is still much better. 2022 draft: Walker Kessler,  2023 he knocked out of the park taking Keyonte George at #16 (averaged 24pts/6ast/4rebs) and Sensebaugh #28 (averaged 15pts/3rebs/2ast at #28.

Following year he takes Collier and Flipowski who are both rotation players. Bailey and Peterson in the most recent years drafts. Danny also did a draft night trade to grab Clayton Jr a year ago who was then used as a piece in the Jarren Jackson Jr trade.

Brad has drafted zero starters. Baylor is probably his best pick so far and he is a borderline rotation player.

[Jiri Welsch]

#27 is the highest Brad has drafted in his tenure. I am not sure what folks are expecting.

[slightly biased bias fan]

#27 is the highest Brad has drafted in his tenure. I am not sure what folks are expecting.

That is not entirely true. Stevens could have drafted a player at #16 in 2021, but he chose to trade it.

I think Stevens has done a fantastic job as GM, but in my opinion he is not as good as Ainge. Look at some of the late first round draft picks Danny was able to hit on.

2003 Kendrick Perkins #27 pick

2004 Delonte West #24
2004 Tony Allen #25

2006 Rajon Rondo #21

2010 Avery Bradley #19

2012 Jared Sullinger #21

2017 Daniel Theis (undrafted)

2018 Robert Williams III #27

2019 Grant Williams #22

2020 Payton Prichard #26

[SparzWizard]

#27 is the highest Brad has drafted in his tenure. I am not sure what folks are expecting.

That is not entirely true. Stevens could have drafted a player at #16 in 2021, but he chose to trade it.

I think Stevens has done a fantastic job as GM, but in my opinion he is not as good as Ainge. Look at some of the late first round draft picks Danny was able to hit on.

2003 Kendrick Perkins #27 pick

2004 Delonte West #24
2004 Tony Allen #25

2006 Rajon Rondo #21

2010 Avery Bradley #19

2012 Jared Sullinger #21

2017 Daniel Theis (undrafted)

2018 Robert Williams III #27

2019 Grant Williams #22

2020 Payton Prichard #26

He also drafted Al Jefferson and Gerald Green before sending them out.

But don't forget his horrible misses:

JaJuan Johnson, JR Giddens, Fab Melo, James Young, RJ Hunter, Ante Zizic

And also was about to trade a plethora of picks (that included Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown I believe) for Justise Winslow, before Michael Jordan decided to turn that deal down THANKFULLY.

[SparzWizard]

[There?s no way you can say FULL STOP yet as Brad?s resume is totally incomplete compared to Danny?s.

Full stop.

Full stop Roy? 🤣

Again, full stop Roy? Cenac and Mitchell beg to differ.

You're trying to mic drop after Summer League?

And yep, still taking Danny.

Yeah, Danny is still much better. 2022 draft: Walker Kessler,  2023 he knocked out of the park taking Keyonte George at #16 (averaged 24pts/6ast/4rebs) and Sensebaugh #28 (averaged 15pts/3rebs/2ast at #28.

Following year he takes Collier and Flipowski who are both rotation players. Bailey and Peterson in the most recent years drafts. Danny also did a draft night trade to grab Clayton Jr a year ago who was then used as a piece in the Jarren Jackson Jr trade.

Brad has drafted zero starters. Baylor is probably his best pick so far and he is a borderline rotation player.

We can always try to tank and see what Brad has to offer with lottery picks! As a matter of fact, last season would have been perfect to throw the season away for AJ Dybansta or Darryn Peterson or even Cam Boozer

[LilRip]

I may be in the minority here but I was a fan of the Kyrie trade when it happened. I loved IT4 but I felt like there was a ceiling with which a player that small could be your best player, especially once the first real injury happened.

And I also never believed in Crowder. I rooted for him because he wore green but he seemed like a replaceable, serviceable bench guy who we were forced to start. The classic case of showcasing a guy.