Anfernee Simons

[vjcsmoke]

Honestly Simons salary being decently sized could mean he's a useful piece to obtaining a better player later down the line, assuming he plays well enough.

This is what I see as his main long term value.

We don't want him to leave as a free agent in 12 months time because we will lose the salary slot. That salary slot is needed to get a 4th star / quasi-star next to the Jays and D White. Like we had in Jrue Holiday in the 2024 Title.

I don't A Simons himself will get such a player but his salary slot will be useful for matching salaries. We will need to attach a bunch of picks alongside him to get a good player back. Players like A Simons (undersized combo guard no defense) have struggled with trade value in recent years. We have seen Miami be unable to get any top star with T Herro. We've seen how little CJ McCollum got when Portland traded him. It just ... isn't a player prototype that nets strong assets in return.

So the assets will need to be added to A Simons to get back a higher quality player. A bunch of picks (1sts). That is how we get our 4th star to put alongside our core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White.

I agree with this assessment of Simons' value.  Herro and Poole are probably good comps for him in terms of production and trade value.  I see Herro and Poole as maybe a little higher in production value but Simons is at a little bit lower contract value.

But I am not sure that there was ever an expectation that Simons was going get back a "a 4th star / quasi-star".  I think that the best hope is to get back a decent rotation player or a couple of lesser rotation/bench players.  Even if you just look at it in terms of the salary slot, $27.7M, I am not sure how much of a star or quasi-star that buys anymore.  You are not going to get another Derrick White for that money.

What you also have to consider is that BOS can keep this $27.7M salary slot and be under the 2nd apron but not under the tax.  BOS may well look to get under the tax threshold for one season to reset.  Say you move Niang and Hauser for nothing, that would only give BOS about $2.8M of tax room.  There is no way to fill the rest of the roster for that amount.  I think BOS is going to give up that $27.7M salary slot (or a good share of it) in order to reset the tax. 

By my math, sending out Simons and Niang would create about $20M of tax "room" but that would be only 9 roster spots.  BOS would need to add 4-5 more players back on to the roster.  Maybe you can sign Kornet and then 3-4 rookies or vet min players.  That is it.  That is what a tax free roster is going to have to look like.

The salary slot / trade. We need that big salary to match with another big salary. We can always add to it. Take that $27-28mil and add midlevel salaries to it. Say Niang and Hauser. Now you got $40+mil. But having that substantial major contract in A Simons is pivotal to matching any big salary. Difficult to do with just midlevel salaries.

It is about finding a path to a 4th difference maker. If it is just Tatum, Jaylen and D White it is unlikely going to be enough to secure another title. They need another difference maker.

The team is likely to good to find one through the draft because they are unlikely to have any high end picks. The team doesn't have enough cap flexability to sign one in free agency. Tatum, Jaylen, and White make up about $150mil by themselves. So getting enough cap space to sign a $25-40mil player isn't on the cards either. It will have to be through the trade market.

A Simons and his deal will be key to having the flexability to get that player in the trade market. He is a solid player and throw a bunch of picks on top of him and you can make attractive offers to teams for lower level stars / guys who want out.

I agree, Simon's salary slot is going to be important to make a swing for another star to add to the mix once Tatum is healthy and we are ready to contend again. I think it's worth a little tax to maintain that flexibility to jump right back in contention by adding that one star quality player who wants out in the future.

We've seen just how devastating the Celtics were with their high quality starting 5 in 2024. We might never reach that perfect mix of talent and health again, but 4/5 strong players can still a contender build.

[jambr380]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

[tazzmaniac]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender. 

[jambr380]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender.

Not to Atlanta, but I'd have to imagine that Simons has at least around the same value as current KP, who just went for bad salary filler and the #22 pick. You're right, though, I don't know how other teams view Simons, but his age, scoring ability, and expiring contract should all be positives for a team looking for that type of player.

I am not saying he is in play for the Celtics long term, just providing a counter-argument that he isn't necessarily just here to be flipped. I think I am higher on him than others around here, though. A new report says the Celtics are exploring options at cutting even more salary and moving Simons can certainly help get them there.

[tazzmaniac]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender.

Not to Atlanta, but I'd have to imagine that Simons has at least around the same value as current KP, who just went for bad salary filler and the #22 pick. You're right, though, I don't know how other teams view Simons, but his age, scoring ability, and expiring contract should all be positives for a team looking for that type of player.

I am not saying he is in play for the Celtics long term, just providing a counter-argument that he isn't necessarily just here to be flipped. I think I am higher on him than others around here, though. A new report says the Celtics are exploring options at cutting even more salary and moving Simons can certainly help get them there.

We're going to find out.  I've seen several stories about Celts trying to move Simons. 

[lbgreen33]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender.

look, I get what you are saying, But! you don't know that! Unless you are actually BS you have No idea! I think everyone is saying we will trade AS, just like everyone knew who we would take with the 32nd Pick!!! How did that work out? We will have to wait and see what Brad has up his sleeve, but sorry you have no clue, just like the rest of us.  Personally, I hope they keep him and teach him how to play Defense, that would ba a win!

[tazzmaniac]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender.

look, I get what you are saying, But! you don't know that! Unless you are actually BS you have No idea! I think everyone is saying we will trade AS, just like everyone knew who we would take with the 32nd Pick!!! How did that work out? We will have to wait and see what Brad has up his sleeve, but sorry you have no clue, just like the rest of us.  Personally, I hope they keep him and teach him how to play Defense, that would ba a win!

You're right I'm projecting what should be done.  I have more confidence in Stevens regarding trades but he showed last night how to screwup a draft.  Of course, there also has to be at least one team who wants Simons and has reasonable return value. 

Regarding teaching Simons defense, he is 26 years old and has been in the league for 7 years so I think that ship has sailed.  He might be a good 12-15 minute instant offense bench player but he wouldn't like that role. 

[tazzmaniac]

delete

[lbgreen33]

Simons may be used as a trade piece or maybe he is the goal acquisition. We had a choice of keeping him or Porzingis on their similar one year deals and we chose Simons. Of course Simons could be next on his way out the door, but he is a borderline elite scorer at the guard position. Until recently, we used to cycle through volume guard scorers with IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Maybe Brad likes having that kind of shot creator/maker on the roster. Yes, he probably overlaps with Pritchard, but Simons is a little bigger and fluid/athletic, whereas Pritchard is more gritty and physical

Why do you say we had a choice of keeping Simons or Porzingiz?  Atlanta wasn't going to trade for Simons.  Simons is going to be traded or let go after next season.  We don't need a volume guard scorer who is a terrible defender.  Furthermore, he won't be a volume scorer on the Celts.  He'll slot in behind Tatum and Brown so he'll provide less offensive contribution to offset his liability on defense.  Simons is not a good fit with Pritchard who is also a poor defender.

look, I get what you are saying, But! you don't know that! Unless you are actually BS you have No idea! I think everyone is saying we will trade AS, just like everyone knew who we would take with the 32nd Pick!!! How did that work out? We will have to wait and see what Brad has up his sleeve, but sorry you have no clue, just like the rest of us.  Personally, I hope they keep him and teach him how to play Defense, that would ba a win!

You're right I'm projecting what should be done.  I have more confidence in Stevens regarding trades but he showed last night how to screwup a draft.  Of course, there also has to be at least one team who wants Simons and has reasonable return value. 

Regarding teaching Simons defense, he is 26 years old and has been in the league for 7 years so I think that ship has sailed.  He might be a good 12-15 minute instant offense bench player but he wouldn't like that role.

I hope you know I don't totally disagree with you. I often like to play devils advocate and maybe I am also too optimistic. But, I will say this, he was in a horrible situation in Portland. I really don't know if Joe could help him or not. But, I do agree, he doesn't seem like a Brad kind of player, but who knows.

[rondohondo]

I think there is a deal to be made with th bulls. They send us ball and vucevic. We give them Simmons, queta and a first and 2 2nds

Ball.    Pp
White.   Schiermen
Brown.    Hauser
Horford.    Neing
Vucevic.     Kornet

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think there is a deal to be made with th bulls. They send us ball and vucevic. We give them Simmons, queta and a first and 2 2nds

Ball.    Pp
White.   Schiermen
Brown.    Hauser
Horford.    Neing
Vucevic.     Kornet

Why are we giving up the best player in the trade and sending out 1sts and 2 seconds? Why are we trading for a 36 year old center?

Vucevic is a decent player, but he really has minimal value due to his contract and age. Ball's value was proven by the contract the Bulls offered him.

We are gathering assets right now. We won't be trading picks unless the player is better than Simons.

[tazzmaniac]

I think there is a deal to be made with th bulls. They send us ball and vucevic. We give them Simmons, queta and a first and 2 2nds

Ball.    Pp
White.   Schiermen
Brown.    Hauser
Horford.    Neing
Vucevic.     Kornet

The trade would add salary not reduce it.  And then retaining Horford and Kornet would put the Celts back over the 2nd apron.  Also what 1st are we giving up and what's the protection?  I don't think Stevens will give up a first to do that deal and he's not going back over the 2nd apron. 

Maybe Collins and Ball for Simons and Niang.  No picks.