One move to get us almost below the second apron...

[Goldstar88]

There is no point.   He has value in the NBA.   Even if it is a three team deal where another team takes on extra salary, it can be done as long as it is understood that the return will not be at the talent value should be.



I really hate these salary cap rules.   It is designed to end excellence of teams until everyone is mediocre.

To me, it's hard to find a suitor for Jrue that is going to bring back positive value to us and also shed significant salary.  There just really aren't many teams with any cap space at all.  So, assuming a normal "within 125%" trade, a team is going to be sending back at least $25.9 million.    We only end up saving around $6.5 million or so.

Jrue would be a great addition for Houston or San Antonio. Both are in need of a PG. Sacramento as well.

What type of trade and cost savings are we looking at, though?

Spurs have Harrison Barnes as an expiring at $19M next year. Jrue Holiday for: Barnes, Wesley, Champagnie.

That saves us $5.7 million.  We'd still be way over the apron.

Long-term it makes sense, but it doesn't fit the Celtics immediate goals.  (Also, I don't think SAS would want Jrue.)

Also have Walsh and Davison on non guaranteed deals. Tillman is an expiring. Those 3 combine for about $7M.

Why wouldn?t the Spurs want Jrue? He?d be a significant upgrade over CP3.

Fox, Holiday, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama would be a very good starting 5. Elite defensively.

Because the Spurs have opportunities to upgrade in much more significant ways.

I can?t see Giannis wanting to play in San Antonio, if that?s what you are referring to. It also doesnt seem like the Bucks want to trade him.

[Roy H.]

There is no point.   He has value in the NBA.   Even if it is a three team deal where another team takes on extra salary, it can be done as long as it is understood that the return will not be at the talent value should be.



I really hate these salary cap rules.   It is designed to end excellence of teams until everyone is mediocre.

To me, it's hard to find a suitor for Jrue that is going to bring back positive value to us and also shed significant salary.  There just really aren't many teams with any cap space at all.  So, assuming a normal "within 125%" trade, a team is going to be sending back at least $25.9 million.    We only end up saving around $6.5 million or so.

Jrue would be a great addition for Houston or San Antonio. Both are in need of a PG. Sacramento as well.

What type of trade and cost savings are we looking at, though?

Spurs have Harrison Barnes as an expiring at $19M next year. Jrue Holiday for: Barnes, Wesley, Champagnie.

That saves us $5.7 million.  We'd still be way over the apron.

Long-term it makes sense, but it doesn't fit the Celtics immediate goals.  (Also, I don't think SAS would want Jrue.)

Also have Walsh and Davison on non guaranteed deals. Tillman is an expiring. Those 3 combine for about $7M.

Why wouldn?t the Spurs want Jrue? He?d be a significant upgrade over CP3.

Fox, Holiday, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama would be a very good starting 5. Elite defensively.

Because the Spurs have opportunities to upgrade in much more significant ways.

I can?t see Giannis wanting to play in San Antonio, if that?s what you are referring to. It also doesnt seem like the Bucks want to trade him.

Why wouldn't he want to play in San Antonio?

Contender + no state income tax + tradition of winning

[Goldstar88]

I hated those small backcourts San Antonio was using late last season after acquiring D Fox. I want them to go bigger.

I want D Fox to be their starting PG. D Vassell to be their starting SG. Stephon Castle to be their 6th man and backup combo guard. A three guard backcourt rotation. Then H Barnes and Keldon Johnson as a 1-2 punch at SF. That is the perimeter rotation I want to see next season. That is their best grouping. They also have Julian Champagnie as another SF. Great perimeter balance & depth.

They have some work to do at the big man slots. Wemby as starter. Sochan as starter or bench big. No other quality big men. That is the hole they should be filling.

I don't like Jrue for San Antonio. It is doubling down on what was a bad plan in the 2nd half of last season.

Jrue is 6?4? and Fox is 6?3?. How would that be a small backcourt?

Fox 6?3,  Jrue 6?4, Castle 6?6 , Sochan 6?8, Wemby 7?3 is a big starting lineup.

[Goldstar88]

There is no point.   He has value in the NBA.   Even if it is a three team deal where another team takes on extra salary, it can be done as long as it is understood that the return will not be at the talent value should be.



I really hate these salary cap rules.   It is designed to end excellence of teams until everyone is mediocre.

To me, it's hard to find a suitor for Jrue that is going to bring back positive value to us and also shed significant salary.  There just really aren't many teams with any cap space at all.  So, assuming a normal "within 125%" trade, a team is going to be sending back at least $25.9 million.    We only end up saving around $6.5 million or so.

Jrue would be a great addition for Houston or San Antonio. Both are in need of a PG. Sacramento as well.

What type of trade and cost savings are we looking at, though?

Spurs have Harrison Barnes as an expiring at $19M next year. Jrue Holiday for: Barnes, Wesley, Champagnie.

That saves us $5.7 million.  We'd still be way over the apron.

Long-term it makes sense, but it doesn't fit the Celtics immediate goals.  (Also, I don't think SAS would want Jrue.)

Also have Walsh and Davison on non guaranteed deals. Tillman is an expiring. Those 3 combine for about $7M.

Why wouldn?t the Spurs want Jrue? He?d be a significant upgrade over CP3.

Fox, Holiday, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama would be a very good starting 5. Elite defensively.

Because the Spurs have opportunities to upgrade in much more significant ways.

I can?t see Giannis wanting to play in San Antonio, if that?s what you are referring to. It also doesnt seem like the Bucks want to trade him.

Why wouldn't he want to play in San Antonio?

Small market, not a glamorous place to live. It would be better for his brand if he was in New York or California. Which super stars have wanted to be traded to or signed as a FA with the Spurs? I can?t think of any.

[Roy H.]

There is no point.   He has value in the NBA.   Even if it is a three team deal where another team takes on extra salary, it can be done as long as it is understood that the return will not be at the talent value should be.



I really hate these salary cap rules.   It is designed to end excellence of teams until everyone is mediocre.

To me, it's hard to find a suitor for Jrue that is going to bring back positive value to us and also shed significant salary.  There just really aren't many teams with any cap space at all.  So, assuming a normal "within 125%" trade, a team is going to be sending back at least $25.9 million.    We only end up saving around $6.5 million or so.

Jrue would be a great addition for Houston or San Antonio. Both are in need of a PG. Sacramento as well.

What type of trade and cost savings are we looking at, though?

Spurs have Harrison Barnes as an expiring at $19M next year. Jrue Holiday for: Barnes, Wesley, Champagnie.

That saves us $5.7 million.  We'd still be way over the apron.

Long-term it makes sense, but it doesn't fit the Celtics immediate goals.  (Also, I don't think SAS would want Jrue.)

Also have Walsh and Davison on non guaranteed deals. Tillman is an expiring. Those 3 combine for about $7M.

Why wouldn?t the Spurs want Jrue? He?d be a significant upgrade over CP3.

Fox, Holiday, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama would be a very good starting 5. Elite defensively.

Because the Spurs have opportunities to upgrade in much more significant ways.

I can?t see Giannis wanting to play in San Antonio, if that?s what you are referring to. It also doesnt seem like the Bucks want to trade him.

Why wouldn't he want to play in San Antonio?

Small market, not a glamorous place to live. It would be better for his brand if he was in New York or California. Which super stars have wanted to be traded to or signed as a FA with the Spurs? I can?t think of any.

LaMarcus Aldridge.

[Goldstar88]

There is no point.   He has value in the NBA.   Even if it is a three team deal where another team takes on extra salary, it can be done as long as it is understood that the return will not be at the talent value should be.



I really hate these salary cap rules.   It is designed to end excellence of teams until everyone is mediocre.

To me, it's hard to find a suitor for Jrue that is going to bring back positive value to us and also shed significant salary.  There just really aren't many teams with any cap space at all.  So, assuming a normal "within 125%" trade, a team is going to be sending back at least $25.9 million.    We only end up saving around $6.5 million or so.

Jrue would be a great addition for Houston or San Antonio. Both are in need of a PG. Sacramento as well.

What type of trade and cost savings are we looking at, though?

Spurs have Harrison Barnes as an expiring at $19M next year. Jrue Holiday for: Barnes, Wesley, Champagnie.

That saves us $5.7 million.  We'd still be way over the apron.

Long-term it makes sense, but it doesn't fit the Celtics immediate goals.  (Also, I don't think SAS would want Jrue.)

Also have Walsh and Davison on non guaranteed deals. Tillman is an expiring. Those 3 combine for about $7M.

Why wouldn?t the Spurs want Jrue? He?d be a significant upgrade over CP3.

Fox, Holiday, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama would be a very good starting 5. Elite defensively.

Because the Spurs have opportunities to upgrade in much more significant ways.

I can?t see Giannis wanting to play in San Antonio, if that?s what you are referring to. It also doesnt seem like the Bucks want to trade him.

Why wouldn't he want to play in San Antonio?

Small market, not a glamorous place to live. It would be better for his brand if he was in New York or California. Which super stars have wanted to be traded to or signed as a FA with the Spurs? I can?t think of any.

LaMarcus Aldridge.

I said Super Stars, Roy! 

[jambr380]

First of all, I think people are greatly undervaluing Jrue. He was just on the Olympic team last year and the Celtics won a championship immediately after he was traded here. The same thing happened in Milwaukee. In addition, he has won teammmate of the year 3x and just won the Social Justice Award. In short, Jrue has a lot of on court and off court value that good and even bad teams would love to have.

But also, if we are going to stretch a salary that big, why not trade him for another team?s expiring junk salary? Wasting $15M/yr for the next 7 years seems incredibly irresponsible.

I?ve used this example before, but I can?t imagine Orlando wouldn?t much rather have Jrue instead of KCP and Jett Howard. We could then use a 2nd to get rid of Howard and see if there are additional options to offload KCP and his $21M. Hopefully we would see some kind of pick(s) in a deal like that and be able to break him up into smaller salaries and offload those.

But if you can?t and you are stuck with KCP and need to stretch him. Having $8M per year of dead money for the next 5 years is a lot better than $15M per year for 7 years.

[Roy H.]

First of all, I think people are greatly undervaluing Jrue. He was just on the Olympic team last year and the Celtics won a championship immediately after he was traded here. The same thing happened in Milwaukee. In addition, he has won teammmate of the year 3x and just won the Social Justice Award. In short, Jrue has a lot of on court and off court value that good and even bad teams would love to have.

But also, if we are going to stretch a salary that big, why not trade him for another team?s expiring junk salary? Wasting $15M/yr for the next 7 years seems incredibly irresponsible.

I?ve used this example before, but I can?t imagine Orlando wouldn?t much rather have Jrue instead of KCP and Jett Howard. We could then use a 2nd to get rid of Howard and see if there are additional options to offload KCP and his $21M. Hopefully we would see some kind of pick(s) in a deal like that and be able to break him up into smaller salaries and offload those.

But if you can?t and you are stuck with KCP and need to stretch him. Having $8M per year of dead money for the next 5 years is a lot better than $15M per year for 7 years.

Or whatever it's worth, the trade falls short financially by a bit over $5 million.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm not advocating for this, but I also haven't seen any discussion of the possibility.

The move:  waive and stretch Jrue Holiday.

Currently, we're $19,959,873 above the second apron for 2025-26.

Jrue has three seasons and $104,400,000 remaining on his contract as of July 1 of this year.

That salary could be stretched over 7 seasons, meaning there's a cap hit of $14,914,285.71 per season.

That means that we would save $17,485,714.29 next season, getting within $2,474,158.71 of the second apron.

To get below the second apron and still field a team, assume that we'd have to trade Hauser into another team's MLE, and fill out the roster with guys making around the minimum.  Still, it's doable.

So, it can be done.  Would it be worth it?  It's obviously hard eating $100 million in dead salary, but would the luxury tax and apron relief over the next couple of seasons make it plausible?

Is cutting 20 million really all that is needed?  I assume you are replacing AL and any other open spots with vet minimums. 

[jambr380]

First of all, I think people are greatly undervaluing Jrue. He was just on the Olympic team last year and the Celtics won a championship immediately after he was traded here. The same thing happened in Milwaukee. In addition, he has won teammmate of the year 3x and just won the Social Justice Award. In short, Jrue has a lot of on court and off court value that good and even bad teams would love to have.

But also, if we are going to stretch a salary that big, why not trade him for another team?s expiring junk salary? Wasting $15M/yr for the next 7 years seems incredibly irresponsible.

I?ve used this example before, but I can?t imagine Orlando wouldn?t much rather have Jrue instead of KCP and Jett Howard. We could then use a 2nd to get rid of Howard and see if there are additional options to offload KCP and his $21M. Hopefully we would see some kind of pick(s) in a deal like that and be able to break him up into smaller salaries and offload those.

But if you can?t and you are stuck with KCP and need to stretch him. Having $8M per year of dead money for the next 5 years is a lot better than $15M per year for 7 years.

Or whatever it's worth, the trade falls short financially by a bit over $5 million.

I was using this year's number, but noticed Spotrac has a trade machine for next year. I didn't know the Magic were going to be over the first apron. So, I guess the Magic are out unless they cut salary somewhere else, but you get my basic point. I just don't think it would make much sense for the Celtics to carry $15M/yr for the next 7 years when there are better options out there. Jrue may be slightly overpaid, but he's not an unplayable albatross.

[tazzmaniac]

First of all, I think people are greatly undervaluing Jrue. He was just on the Olympic team last year and the Celtics won a championship immediately after he was traded here. The same thing happened in Milwaukee. In addition, he has won teammmate of the year 3x and just won the Social Justice Award. In short, Jrue has a lot of on court and off court value that good and even bad teams would love to have.

But also, if we are going to stretch a salary that big, why not trade him for another team?s expiring junk salary? Wasting $15M/yr for the next 7 years seems incredibly irresponsible.

I?ve used this example before, but I can?t imagine Orlando wouldn?t much rather have Jrue instead of KCP and Jett Howard. We could then use a 2nd to get rid of Howard and see if there are additional options to offload KCP and his $21M. Hopefully we would see some kind of pick(s) in a deal like that and be able to break him up into smaller salaries and offload those.

But if you can?t and you are stuck with KCP and need to stretch him. Having $8M per year of dead money for the next 5 years is a lot better than $15M per year for 7 years.

Or whatever it's worth, the trade falls short financially by a bit over $5 million.

I was using this year's number, but noticed Spotrac has a trade machine for next year. I didn't know the Magic were going to be over the first apron. So, I guess the Magic are out unless they cut salary somewhere else, but you get my basic point. I just don't think it would make much sense for the Celtics to carry $15M/yr for the next 7 years when there are better options out there. Jrue may be slightly overpaid, but he's not an unplayable albatross.

Agreed.  And if you were going to do it, you'd trade Jrue for smaller expiring contract(s) and then stretch those.  Say 30M over 3 years, 10M/yr.   

[Roy H.]

First of all, I think people are greatly undervaluing Jrue. He was just on the Olympic team last year and the Celtics won a championship immediately after he was traded here. The same thing happened in Milwaukee. In addition, he has won teammmate of the year 3x and just won the Social Justice Award. In short, Jrue has a lot of on court and off court value that good and even bad teams would love to have.

But also, if we are going to stretch a salary that big, why not trade him for another team?s expiring junk salary? Wasting $15M/yr for the next 7 years seems incredibly irresponsible.

I?ve used this example before, but I can?t imagine Orlando wouldn?t much rather have Jrue instead of KCP and Jett Howard. We could then use a 2nd to get rid of Howard and see if there are additional options to offload KCP and his $21M. Hopefully we would see some kind of pick(s) in a deal like that and be able to break him up into smaller salaries and offload those.

But if you can?t and you are stuck with KCP and need to stretch him. Having $8M per year of dead money for the next 5 years is a lot better than $15M per year for 7 years.

Or whatever it's worth, the trade falls short financially by a bit over $5 million.

I was using this year's number, but noticed Spotrac has a trade machine for next year. I didn't know the Magic were going to be over the first apron. So, I guess the Magic are out unless they cut salary somewhere else, but you get my basic point. I just don't think it would make much sense for the Celtics to carry $15M/yr for the next 7 years when there are better options out there. Jrue may be slightly overpaid, but he's not an unplayable albatross.

Agreed.  And if you were going to do it, you'd trade Jrue for smaller expiring contract(s) and then stretch those.  Say 30M over 3 years, 10M/yr.

Yes, it's a solid way to go, assuming Jrue has neutral value.  I love the guy, but he's a month away from 35, and he's owed $104 million.  That's a lot for a great teammate that gives you 10 points, 4 assists and great defense, but with some recent durability issues.

[ozgod]

I'm not advocating for this, but I also haven't seen any discussion of the possibility.

The move:  waive and stretch Jrue Holiday.

Currently, we're $19,959,873 above the second apron for 2025-26.

Jrue has three seasons and $104,400,000 remaining on his contract as of July 1 of this year.

That salary could be stretched over 7 seasons, meaning there's a cap hit of $14,914,285.71 per season.

That means that we would save $17,485,714.29 next season, getting within $2,474,158.71 of the second apron.

To get below the second apron and still field a team, assume that we'd have to trade Hauser into another team's MLE, and fill out the roster with guys making around the minimum.  Still, it's doable.

So, it can be done.  Would it be worth it?  It's obviously hard eating $100 million in dead salary, but would the luxury tax and apron relief over the next couple of seasons make it plausible?

If the question that Chisolm, Wyc and Brad have is, is it worth paying $100m to get below the second apron and create more roster flexibility to either a) get under the tax or b) aggregate players in trades to make it easier to reconfigure the roster; c) use the trade exceptions; and d) make it easier to duck under the luxury tax the following season I would personally feel the answer is yes. The only other cost, other than the $100m, would be the fact that we would keep Jrue for another season and that might make his contract less fungible if he continues to deteriorate. But I think it might be a risk worth taking. It's not my money though 

[tazzmaniac]

Holiday for Tobias Harris (1yr, 26.6M) works.  That saves 5.7M from the trade.   Then if Harris is stretched, it would be 8.7M/yr hit for 3 years.  That would be 23.7M reduction from Jrue's salary next season minus whatever a vet minimum replacement costs.  Might be able to get Harris to accept a slight reduction, say 2.6M to get it down to 8M/yr for 3 years.  He'd make it up and some more signing with another team.   

Another option would be to buyout and stretch KP (1yr, 30.7M) over 3 years. 

Does a buyout and stretch have to occur before the season starts?

[jambr380]

Holiday for Tobias Harris (1yr, 26.6M) works.  That saves 5.7M from the trade.   Then if Harris is stretched, it would be 8.7M/yr hit for 3 years.  That would be 23.7M reduction from Jrue's salary next season minus whatever a vet minimum replacement costs.  Might be able to get Harris to accept a slight reduction, say 2.6M to get it down to 8M/yr for 3 years.  He'd make it up and some more signing with another team.   

Another option would be to buyout and stretch KP (1yr, 30.7M) over 3 years. 

Does a buyout and stretch have to occur before the season starts?

This is a solid option, too. I think there are probably a number of them out there if we really think about it.

It's an interesting idea by Roy, and one that we haven't really seriously considered. I just think that even if nobody will trade with us at all, then it makes more sense to waive and stretch KP (similar to your example - 3 yrs at $10M/yr) since the dead money is far less punitive for the future. 7 years at $15M yr is madness.

It also really limits any possibility of future waives and stretches since you can't have more than 15% of dead money on your books. That's why PHX can't waive and stretch Beal.

That still leaves Jrue, but you have to think eventually we could move that contract - especially if he has a little more responsibility next year and is producing slightly more.

But again, I don't think it'll come down to that. I think Jrue still has value, but KP maybe leaving a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths right now, even though this is not his fault