Author Topic: This team will not repeat?.  (Read 30300 times)

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Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2024, 07:59:49 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Team bench is not that good
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2024, 08:02:12 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Team bench is not that good

Trade Springer, bring back Brissett and Walker.


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Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2024, 08:18:57 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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I'll fully admit, I'm a pretty optimistic and realistic guy and it's only December. I'm still not gonna change my BOS > OKC in 6 in the Finals prediction either.

BUT... idk... something really does seem off about this team. I get more 2023 vibes from this team than 2024, and even glimpses of 2022 (the bad portions).

I really hope they are just going through the motions and maybe aren't trying as hard because it's December and not April. But if not... they could have a rude awakening when they play a team like CLE/ORL/NY in the 2nd round or ECF. I'm not worried they are gonna collapse or be an early playoff exit but if we're talking a Finals run, they won't make it playing like this particularly on the defensive end and with the poor effort on rebounding/defense.

That's what I thought about Denver after they won 2023. Second-round exit to the Wolves. At one point trailing the series 3-1.


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Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2024, 08:39:15 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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It annoys the living hell out of me how we as a fan base have to do this after every loss.

So let me be clear, if you're calling the team soft because they lost a game in December by 4 points then the only thing soft is you, as a fan.

Relax.


Dude they?re losing to the Bulls and Magic without 8 players.

This team is suppose to be better than last year.

Tatum and Brown were suppose to elevate their games.

This team currently won?t make it to the ECF.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2024, 08:49:50 PM »

Offline Who

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Something does feel off with this year's group. Maybe it is just Porzingis missing so much time and even when he is here he is usually fighting back into game condition and not playing as well as he did last season.

That said, the other contenders in the East have not looked great either.

* Cleveland = doing great in the regular season but still haven't resolved their roster issues. Small backcourt that is defensively vulnerable. Lack of spacing in the frontcourt. Lack of quality play from wing sized players. They continue to look like a regular season warrior playoff pretender.

* Philly = injuries. Will they ever be healthy? Will they be healthy long enough to generate good enough chemistry to beat top teams in the playoffs?

* New York = defense is poor. Do not like a title team. Look a solid 2nd tier playoff team. A 4/5 seed that could win a series and get knocked out in the 2nd round. They have a lot of talent but they are not getting enough out of them.

* Milwaukee = weak defensive team. Awful perimeter defenders. Slow bigs. No supporting cast. Overly reliant on Giannis & Lillard. Weakest of the teams. Not really a contender but a bit better than the rest of the field (ORL, IND, MIA, ATL).

So even with BOS looking more vulnerable, it is still hard to see who else is good enough in the East to take them out. All those teams have major questions / bigger question marks than BOS does.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2024, 08:51:39 PM »

Offline Who

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Team bench is not that good

Pritchard has been one of the best bench players in the league in this season. Once Porzingis is fully back, Horford as a full time bench player gives us a top bench big. Two top bench players. Hauser is a good bench player. A third quality bench player.

I agree the deep bench is dodgy. Once you get past those 3 guys, there is not a lot you can rely on.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2024, 09:18:17 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Team bench is not that good

Trade Springer, bring back Brissett and Walker.
110% agree
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2024, 04:03:36 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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I think this team needs a players-only meeting. They were punked on by the Hawks and Bulls at the Garden, then lost to the handicapped Magic and 76ers. The performance has been lackluster; some identity missing and surely a cause for concern. They are now 11-5 at home, more losses compared to last season's 37-4 home record, and they really haven't started losing at home until January.


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Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2024, 08:19:55 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Something does feel off with this year's group. Maybe it is just Porzingis missing so much time and even when he is here he is usually fighting back into game condition and not playing as well as he did last season.

That said, the other contenders in the East have not looked great either.

* Cleveland = doing great in the regular season but still haven't resolved their roster issues. Small backcourt that is defensively vulnerable. Lack of spacing in the frontcourt. Lack of quality play from wing sized players. They continue to look like a regular season warrior playoff pretender.

* Philly = injuries. Will they ever be healthy? Will they be healthy long enough to generate good enough chemistry to beat top teams in the playoffs?

* New York = defense is poor. Do not like a title team. Look a solid 2nd tier playoff team. A 4/5 seed that could win a series and get knocked out in the 2nd round. They have a lot of talent but they are not getting enough out of them.

* Milwaukee = weak defensive team. Awful perimeter defenders. Slow bigs. No supporting cast. Overly reliant on Giannis & Lillard. Weakest of the teams. Not really a contender but a bit better than the rest of the field (ORL, IND, MIA, ATL).

So even with BOS looking more vulnerable, it is still hard to see who else is good enough in the East to take them out. All those teams have major questions / bigger question marks than BOS does.

If healthy all those teams are better than anything the Celtics faced in the east playoffs last season?just saying

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2024, 08:57:23 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I'll fully admit, I'm a pretty optimistic and realistic guy and it's only December. I'm still not gonna change my BOS > OKC in 6 in the Finals prediction either.

BUT... idk... something really does seem off about this team. I get more 2023 vibes from this team than 2024, and even glimpses of 2022 (the bad portions).

I really hope they are just going through the motions and maybe aren't trying as hard because it's December and not April. But if not... they could have a rude awakening when they play a team like CLE/ORL/NY in the 2nd round or ECF. I'm not worried they are gonna collapse or be an early playoff exit but if we're talking a Finals run, they won't make it playing like this particularly on the defensive end and with the poor effort on rebounding/defense.

I have the same opinion about their chances today that I had yesterday. I never thought they were guaranteed to win, we all know how hard it is to repeat, but I'm not ready to write them off in December. I try to think of success and failure as probabilities, not binary solutions. It's tough to repeat, but we all knew that. It's as much to do with their mental preparation and mindset as it is the physical talent and chemistry of the team. Health and luck also play a big role.

We know they have the team to win it, so the mental part is where Joe will have to keep them focused over the long season. Anyone who has successfully completed a really difficult task that took forever and took a lot of effort and sweat will know how hard it is to get back into the same mental state to do it again. But that's what differentiates the ATGs - the champions, the likes of Russell, Bird, Steph, MJ, LeBum - from the others who were able to do it once but never again.

That being said, I'm not prepared to write a team off on the basis of one bad month. This competition doesn't happen in a vacuum, nor is it a one-off FIFA World Cup Final or NCAA championship or NBA Cup. Whoever wins this thing has to win 16 games in June, in the pressure of the playoffs, under all sorts of adversity, dealing with possible health issues. I still think we're probably one of the 3 or 4 teams with the best probability of doing that, and a 4 point loss isn't really enough to move the needle for me. If you're the type of person that overreacts after one or two losses it's going to be a tough (or should I say the usual  :police:) regular season rollercoaster ride. If you're a negative person by nature, you're not going to like what you're seeing - my dad has already written them off, just like he did at various times last season.

What I think we should be looking at are trends over longer periods. What is the opposition 3FGA% over the course of the season? Is it going up or down? How many of those shots were defined as "open" or "wide open" (i.e. nearest defender was 3 -6+ feet away). What is ours? Our 3FGA has gone from 42 to 50 but our % has dropped from 38% to 34%. We're still making more than any other team in the league but that's due to volume, not efficiency. Why? Are we taking contested 3s? What is our turnover rate? Who are the main culprits? Is there a change to how other teams are defending us (as Gary Washburn of the Globe suggested)? Are we winning the effort plays, the hustle plays? Those are usually a good indicator of a team's hunger.

I'm sure the team has their army of nerds that are poring over endless hours of film so they will have all the answers to these questions. If I had to guess, I would suspect that there have been a few key plays that have not gone our way, and it's had a cascading effect. Tight games, like the ones we've lost (except the Chicago game) usually turn on some key plays. In the Sixers game, you can say a) they left Caleb Martin open and he made them pay by making 7-of-9 3s, that's 21 points right there. Then we had PP shoot 1-9, 0-8 from 3. Jaylen shot 10-23 and had 5 turnovers and numerous defensive lapses.

But you also have to look at the tight wins, because those could have gone the other way as well, to try and see if there's something systemic behind the drop in efficiency and performance. The biggest thing I'm concerned with, other than the defensive breakdowns at the perimeter, is the deterioration of Hauser. He seems to have lost confidence, to the point where he's not even attempting shots, and he's letting his defensive errors affect his offensive game. He's a vital cog in this team, because he and PP are key in maintaining pressure on the other team when the 2nd unit comes on. They have to figure out how to fix him, pretty quickly.

To me the exciting part about last season was seeing if they had the gumption to go all the way. This season, the exciting part is seeing how they face adversity, improvement from other teams, and how they respond to losses. Excited to see how they respond to this one  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2024, 10:18:14 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I don't like the trend, that is for sure.  I would have said that the defense is part of the problem but it has actually been better the last 10 games over the first 20 games:

First 20     16-4   111.1 DRtg     98.3 Pace
Last 10       6-4   107.1 DRtg    100.5 Pace
Overall      20-8   109.7 DRtg     99.7 Pace

Last season we were 110.6 DRtg overall, 2nd best.  Scoring is down though, 109.7 DRtg this season puts us 8th best.  All that said, I think the defense could be better, tighter.

The only statistical thing that I can find to explain the drop in winning the last 10 games is a drop in 3P% from 37.6% (first 20 games) to 34.1% (last 20 games).  When you take 50+ 3PA per game, this is a difference of over 5 pts per game, on average.  Live by the 3, die by the 3, I guess.

Over the last 10 games or so, they look to me like a team that thinks it can flip the switch when the time comes while teams like OKC and CLE are playing like they have something to prove.  I am not too worried at this point but again, I don't like the trend.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2024, 10:44:04 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2024, 11:01:33 AM »

Offline Who

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Something does feel off with this year's group. Maybe it is just Porzingis missing so much time and even when he is here he is usually fighting back into game condition and not playing as well as he did last season.

That said, the other contenders in the East have not looked great either.

* Cleveland = doing great in the regular season but still haven't resolved their roster issues. Small backcourt that is defensively vulnerable. Lack of spacing in the frontcourt. Lack of quality play from wing sized players. They continue to look like a regular season warrior playoff pretender.

* Philly = injuries. Will they ever be healthy? Will they be healthy long enough to generate good enough chemistry to beat top teams in the playoffs?

* New York = defense is poor. Do not like a title team. Look a solid 2nd tier playoff team. A 4/5 seed that could win a series and get knocked out in the 2nd round. They have a lot of talent but they are not getting enough out of them.

* Milwaukee = weak defensive team. Awful perimeter defenders. Slow bigs. No supporting cast. Overly reliant on Giannis & Lillard. Weakest of the teams. Not really a contender but a bit better than the rest of the field (ORL, IND, MIA, ATL).

So even with BOS looking more vulnerable, it is still hard to see who else is good enough in the East to take them out. All those teams have major questions / bigger question marks than BOS does.

If healthy all those teams are better than anything the Celtics faced in the east playoffs last season?just saying

Agreed.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2024, 12:18:53 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Team bench is not that good

Trade Springer, bring back Brissett and Walker.

I am not saying that Springer is helping the team or going to help the team in the playoffs, but Brissett and Walker had no opportunity with any team in the NBA.  One is playing in Europe, the other not playing at all.  All 3 of these are fringe NBA players.

If we are going to trade Springer, I say let's try to get an actual NBA player in return, even if it costs us a pick or something.

Re: This team will not repeat?.
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2024, 12:24:33 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Team bench is not that good

Trade Springer, bring back Brissett and Walker.

I am not saying that Springer is helping the team or going to help the team in the playoffs, but Brissett and Walker had no opportunity with any team in the NBA.  One is playing in Europe, the other not playing at all.  All 3 of these are fringe NBA players.

If we are going to trade Springer, I say let's try to get an actual NBA player in return, even if it costs us a pick or something.

Springer + pick(s) for Day'Ron Sharpe

Re-sign Lonnie Walker outright

Holiday/White/Jaylen/Tatum/Porzingis
Horford/Pritchard/Hauser/Lonnie/Sharpe
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