Porzingis injury updates (soleus strain)

[Who]

Charles Barkley said more than once on the NBA on TNT that they can’t win a championship without hm. He says a lot of things that don’t come true, but I like Charles anyway. I don’t know what you all think.

They could beat Dallas without Porzingis. Not a sure thing but a solid chance against them. Maybe OKC as well. Not sure about Minnesota. Might still have a shot against Minnesota.

I don't think they could beat Denver without Porzingis.


I would put Dallas and OKC on a par with a healthy Cleveland team. I don't think either squad are elite teams. Nor are Cleveland. I thought Cleveland had a 50-50 shot against BOS without Porzingis had they been healthy. I would put the odds somewhere similar for Dallas and OKC vs Boston.

[keevsnick]

I think they've almost certainly lose against any of the remaining wets teams without him. maybe they have a shot against Dallas, but he's vital to the C's success against elite teams. 

Luckily I'm pretty sure he'll return at some point in the ECF.

[Vermont Green]

And then there's the worst case Kevin Durant scenario:  playing after on a torn calf after being medically cleared, and rupturing his Achilles.

So how do you mitigate that risk?  Would resting another week have made any difference?  Did the Doctors miss some damage to the Achilles as they treated the torn calf (Porzingis does not have a torn calf)?  Is there any point where there is zero risk of Porzingis injuring his Achilles?

Maybe the Doctors are saying that because of the calf strain, he is at a higher risk of Achilles damage if he plays.  But for how long does that heighten risk remain?  Probably for more than a couple of weeks.  Probably for the rest of his career.  That would make this into something very different than what it appears to be.  It appears to be a routine calf strain, a fairly common basketball injury.

I don't know what the Doctors are telling the team.  But when the Doctors tell the team it is safe to play him, and that he is ready to play, they should play him.  If the Doctors say playing him this week is much riskier than waiting another week, I would wait another week, unless we are down 2-1 in the finals or something and another week could be too late.

[Roy H.]

(Porzingis does not have a torn calf)

??

One of us is seemingly pretty confused right now.

A soleus strain is a torn calf muscle.

[Vermont Green]

(Porzingis does not have a torn calf)

??

One of us is seemingly pretty confused right now.

A soleus strain is a torn calf muscle.

Is a stain the same as a tear?  If that is the case, than I am mistaken.  I thought the diagnosis was a soleus muscle strain, not a muscle tear, and that a muscle strain is much less serious than a muscle tear.

Not that random information on the web is definitive, but here is what the web says:

If the injury is only a strain, you may feel a strong pulling in your lower leg. It may be uncomfortable. You may have a twinge of pain. More serious muscle tears will cause very sharp pain and leave you barely able to walk.

If this is a muscle tear, a tear in the way that I understand it, I don't see much chance he is coming back anytime in the playoffs.

[Neurotic Guy]

My guess is there is always uncertainty when applying extreme stress to the muscle after a strain.  You have to test it out at some point but i don’t think there’s any certainty that it won’t re-strain. Waiting as long as reasonably possible to put the calf through the wringer makes sense, but that also means waiting on high-level conditioning. I would think you let games 1 and 2 go, and then decide about game 3 depending on results of the first two games. If they are up 2-0 and can rest the calf for an additional few days, then do so.

[Roy H.]

(Porzingis does not have a torn calf)

??

One of us is seemingly pretty confused right now.

A soleus strain is a torn calf muscle.

Is a stain the same as a tear?  If that is the case, than I am mistaken.  I thought the diagnosis was a soleus muscle strain, not a muscle tear, and that a muscle strain is much less serious than a muscle tear.

Not that random information on the web is definitive, but here is what the web says:

If the injury is only a strain, you may feel a strong pulling in your lower leg. It may be uncomfortable. You may have a twinge of pain. More serious muscle tears will cause very sharp pain and leave you barely able to walk.

If this is a muscle tear, a tear in the way that I understand it, I don't see much chance he is coming back anytime in the playoffs.

Strains are tears of muscle fibers.  A muscle strain and a muscle tear are the same thing.  "A soleus strain, also known as a calf strain, is a tear or stretch in the soleus muscle of the lower leg."

[cman88]

Charles Barkley said more than once on the NBA on TNT that they can’t win a championship without hm. He says a lot of things that don’t come true, but I like Charles anyway. I don’t know what you all think.

I agree with him. But considering all signs point to KP coming back I’m not sure why he kept saying it.

[tenn_smoothie]

Can they not determine the status of the injury with a scan and be able to see if the tissue is healed or not ?

[cman88]

Can they not determine the status of the injury with a scan and be able to see if the tissue is healed or not ?

probably. when I had a muscle strain they determine the seriousness by the MRI and seeing how big the tear is to determine the grade

the problem is that even if its healed you stayed off it for awhile so then you do rehab to have to build strength back up in it. it seems he may be at that 2nd stage with the workouts.

[Surferdad]

Charles Barkley said more than once on the NBA on TNT that they can’t win a championship without hm. He says a lot of things that don’t come true, but I like Charles anyway. I don’t know what you all think.

I agree with him. But considering all signs point to KP coming back I’m not sure why he kept saying it.

Because he's not back yet, and many NBA fans may not realize he is coming back.

[Celtics2021]

Charles Barkley said more than once on the NBA on TNT that they can’t win a championship without hm. He says a lot of things that don’t come true, but I like Charles anyway. I don’t know what you all think.

How many championships did Chuck win?

Anyway, he’s simply wrong.  Will it be harder?  Of course.  Might they be the underdog in a Finals?  Arguably.  But with or without KP they are still the favorite in the ECF, and all the teams in the West have been very inconsistent from game to game.  Without KP we’re a healthier version of last year’s team, and a more experienced version of the 2022 Finals team, where lack of experience was definitely a factor in our loss.

[Vermont Green]

Sorry to beleaguer this but a muscle strain and a muscle tear are not the same thing:

https://www.medicinenet.com/is_a_muscle_strain_the_same_as_a_muscle_tear/article.htm

A muscle strain is an injury that occurs when a muscle or a tendon is overstretched. A muscle tear is when a muscle or a tendon is overstretched and it tears. A muscle strain is not the same thing as a muscle tear.

Although a muscle strain is different from a muscle tear, many people get these injuries confused. A strain is an injury that involves a muscle or tendon being overstretched. Your doctor may also call the injury a pulled tendon or muscle pull. (A tendon is the cord of tissue that attaches a muscle to a bone.)

Sometimes the injury is more severe, and one, a few, or all of the muscle fibers get torn. In this case, you have a muscle tear.

My understanding is that the injury Porzingis suffered was reported to be a "muscle strain".  I believe that if this was a muscle tear, we would not even be talking about whether or not he would return for the playoffs at all, he would be done for the season.

I don't recall if they reported whether this was a Grade 1 (2-3 weeks recovery) or a Grade 2 (4-6 weeks recovery).  A Grade 3 strain or a tear is generally season ending.  The injury was on Apr 29 I believe so Monday will be 3 weeks.

I don't know the state or progress of his recovery/re-strengthening or the severity of the original injury.  I don't advocate playing him until the Doctors say he has a clean MRI and he says it feels good but if he has a clean MRI and he says it feels good, I see no reason to give him extra rest.  It does not appear that they are at that point.  It appears they are only just starting the strengthening and getting back in shape.

I would not push it if you don't have to push it.  But there could be a point where you have to push it.  For example if we go down in the NYK/IND series.   Or we get down in the finals.  Where giving him another week may mean the end of the season.  Based on what is being reported, it seem like there is a soft goal to get him back at some point in the next round.   That would be ideal to have him truly 100% for the finals.

[gift]

Sorry to beleaguer this but a muscle strain and a muscle tear are not the same thing:

https://www.medicinenet.com/is_a_muscle_strain_the_same_as_a_muscle_tear/article.htm

A muscle strain is an injury that occurs when a muscle or a tendon is overstretched. A muscle tear is when a muscle or a tendon is overstretched and it tears. A muscle strain is not the same thing as a muscle tear.

Although a muscle strain is different from a muscle tear, many people get these injuries confused. A strain is an injury that involves a muscle or tendon being overstretched. Your doctor may also call the injury a pulled tendon or muscle pull. (A tendon is the cord of tissue that attaches a muscle to a bone.)

Sometimes the injury is more severe, and one, a few, or all of the muscle fibers get torn. In this case, you have a muscle tear.

My understanding is that the injury Porzingis suffered was reported to be a "muscle strain".  I believe that if this was a muscle tear, we would not even be talking about whether or not he would return for the playoffs at all, he would be done for the season.

I don't recall if they reported whether this was a Grade 1 (2-3 weeks recovery) or a Grade 2 (4-6 weeks recovery).  A Grade 3 strain or a tear is generally season ending.  The injury was on Apr 29 I believe so Monday will be 3 weeks.

I don't know the state or progress of his recovery/re-strengthening or the severity of the original injury.  I don't advocate playing him until the Doctors say he has a clean MRI and he says it feels good but if he has a clean MRI and he says it feels good, I see no reason to give him extra rest.  It does not appear that they are at that point.  It appears they are only just starting the strengthening and getting back in shape.

I would not push it if you don't have to push it.  But there could be a point where you have to push it.  For example if we go down in the NYK/IND series.   Or we get down in the finals.  Where giving him another week may mean the end of the season.  Based on what is being reported, it seem like there is a soft goal to get him back at some point in the next round.   That would be ideal to have him truly 100% for the finals.

yeah the terminology has always been a bit confusing. a pull/strain does involve tears in the tissue, yet there are obviously tears that are more severe and effect the structure of the tissue. i've been assuming porzingis has a typical strain that would involve the speculated 2-4 weeks of recovery. the difference being that at the end of the recovery, he should basically be 100% (though with a higher chance of re-injury; this is permanent). a more severe actual tear would involve a recovery that doesn't necessarily get you back to where you were and thus can lead to compensatory injuries. i don't expect that kp is in that situation as long as he is fully healed from the strain.

[gift]

Charles Barkley said more than once on the NBA on TNT that they can’t win a championship without hm. He says a lot of things that don’t come true, but I like Charles anyway. I don’t know what you all think.

How many championships did Chuck win?

Anyway, he’s simply wrong.  Will it be harder?  Of course.  Might they be the underdog in a Finals?  Arguably.  But with or without KP they are still the favorite in the ECF, and all the teams in the West have been very inconsistent from game to game.  Without KP we’re a healthier version of last year’s team, and a more experienced version of the 2022 Finals team, where lack of experience was definitely a factor in our loss.

kind of wild that we can still expect them to win a championship without kp, but i agree. either way they should make the finals and depending on who they face they could still potentially be favored. even if not favored, they could realistically still win. on the flip side, they could get kp back and still lose. but it really says something about how strong the team is.