Author Topic: 2024 NBA Season and Playoffs  (Read 998533 times)

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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1125 on: November 29, 2023, 11:54:58 AM »

Offline bdm860

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On the other hand, basketball players spend every possession trying to score points, and the presence of the tournament shouldn't make a meaningful difference.

To bring back the old discussions about hacking - if you don't want to get fouled every time down the stretch, it's incumbent on you to hit your free throws.

Well so far the IST seems like....a great idea? It's made people care about random Tuesday night games in late November.

Yeah, the tension tonight really justified the thing for me honestly.  I still hate the courts but if these guys are taking this seriously - and tonight demonstrated that they are - then I'm in.

If you guys are actually excited about it I am happy for you. I honestly have just felt like a gimmick has been jammed down my throat the last few weeks and it hasn’t made me
Care anymore. Like it is kind of cool if the end of bench guys on the Celtics get 500k or whatever but they should really add something tangible to make this matter like winner of it all gets the thirty first pick In the draft.
First pick in the draft is absolutely a nonstarter, though. There's no way to make that work.
he said 31st pick

Ah my mistake - however, many of the same problems. What happens when a team trades their only second-rounder and then wins the in-season tournament? Does the team they traded it to get that pick (as normal)? What's the incentive?

It’s actually not that hard and happens in lots of other sports. For example in baseball teams are awarded compensatory picks all the time for having free agents leave. They are also awarded in the NFL and NHL. You just would have language it is not eligible for pick swaps or whatever. When they were discussing this tournament this was brought up and I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually happens in the future.

So this would be a separate pick in addition to the team's normal 2nd rounder? That could work, although 31 might be too valuable if they aren't giving up anything (like they would be if swapping their 2nd). It would be easy to move that pick around, though, there's no reason they couldn't put it at like 41 or something (or give the option between getting another pick (say #41) or swapping your second rounder for #31)

As one of the people who brought up the problems with playing for draft picks or draft position in the earlier threads, it's important to highlight one crucial difference between the situations that Clay has highlighted with compensatory picks and the like: players are not usually competing for the right for their team to have more opportunities to draft their replacements, nor will they (and they shouldn't, really). This is the inverse of the major failings with 'The Process', in some ways - if the reward for winning is draft picks, players are incentivised not to win the tournament, because winning the tournament (for picks) only benefits management.

The overall goal is good basketball that people care about early in the season - which means you need to have player buy-in and engagement. If that is the goal, why on earth would anyone in the league play harder for the team to have more picks vs a payout?

It's not just about player buy in, it's about everybody buying in (players, coaches, ownership/management, fans).

$500k award to motivate the players
Extra pick to motivate ownership/management/diehard fans

Doesn't have to be either/or.


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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1126 on: November 29, 2023, 12:01:33 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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On the other hand, basketball players spend every possession trying to score points, and the presence of the tournament shouldn't make a meaningful difference.

To bring back the old discussions about hacking - if you don't want to get fouled every time down the stretch, it's incumbent on you to hit your free throws.

Well so far the IST seems like....a great idea? It's made people care about random Tuesday night games in late November.

Yeah, the tension tonight really justified the thing for me honestly.  I still hate the courts but if these guys are taking this seriously - and tonight demonstrated that they are - then I'm in.

If you guys are actually excited about it I am happy for you. I honestly have just felt like a gimmick has been jammed down my throat the last few weeks and it hasn’t made me
Care anymore. Like it is kind of cool if the end of bench guys on the Celtics get 500k or whatever but they should really add something tangible to make this matter like winner of it all gets the thirty first pick In the draft.
First pick in the draft is absolutely a nonstarter, though. There's no way to make that work.
he said 31st pick

Ah my mistake - however, many of the same problems. What happens when a team trades their only second-rounder and then wins the in-season tournament? Does the team they traded it to get that pick (as normal)? What's the incentive?

It’s actually not that hard and happens in lots of other sports. For example in baseball teams are awarded compensatory picks all the time for having free agents leave. They are also awarded in the NFL and NHL. You just would have language it is not eligible for pick swaps or whatever. When they were discussing this tournament this was brought up and I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually happens in the future.

So this would be a separate pick in addition to the team's normal 2nd rounder? That could work, although 31 might be too valuable if they aren't giving up anything (like they would be if swapping their 2nd). It would be easy to move that pick around, though, there's no reason they couldn't put it at like 41 or something (or give the option between getting another pick (say #41) or swapping your second rounder for #31)

As one of the people who brought up the problems with playing for draft picks or draft position in the earlier threads, it's important to highlight one crucial difference between the situations that Clay has highlighted with compensatory picks and the like: players are not usually competing for the right for their team to have more opportunities to draft their replacements, nor will they (and they shouldn't, really). This is the inverse of the major failings with 'The Process', in some ways - if the reward for winning is draft picks, players are incentivised not to win the tournament, because winning the tournament (for picks) only benefits management.

The overall goal is good basketball that people care about early in the season - which means you need to have player buy-in and engagement. If that is the goal, why on earth would anyone in the league play harder for the team to have more picks vs a payout?

It's not just about player buy in, it's about everybody buying in (players, coaches, ownership/management, fans).

$500k award to motivate the players
Extra pick to motivate ownership/management/diehard fans

Doesn't have to be either/or.

I understand what you're saying, but I would say that the current system has enough buy-in enough from coaches, ownership, and management already, save perhaps the point differential (that extra game is an extra game's worth of gate receipts, which ownership loves).

Let me put my concern another way: If you're an end-of-the-bench guy, maybe on an expiring contract or a two-way deal, is $500k enough motivation to help your team draft your replacement?
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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1127 on: November 29, 2023, 12:20:57 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So it felt to me after last night that Jaylen has had a lot of dunks this year, so I went and looked it up.

He has 22 dunks in 17 games. Dunks have been 7.7% of his FGA's according to BB Reference. The only seasons in which that number was  higher were his first (7.8%) and second (7.7%) years when he obviously didn't take nearly as many shots.

Not sure it means much other than its fun. But it is interesting to note that it was the end of his second season, March of 2018, when Jaylen suffered that hard fall/concussion on a dunk attempt vs Minnesota.

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1128 on: November 29, 2023, 12:41:05 PM »

Offline bdm860

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On the other hand, basketball players spend every possession trying to score points, and the presence of the tournament shouldn't make a meaningful difference.

To bring back the old discussions about hacking - if you don't want to get fouled every time down the stretch, it's incumbent on you to hit your free throws.

Well so far the IST seems like....a great idea? It's made people care about random Tuesday night games in late November.

Yeah, the tension tonight really justified the thing for me honestly.  I still hate the courts but if these guys are taking this seriously - and tonight demonstrated that they are - then I'm in.

If you guys are actually excited about it I am happy for you. I honestly have just felt like a gimmick has been jammed down my throat the last few weeks and it hasn’t made me
Care anymore. Like it is kind of cool if the end of bench guys on the Celtics get 500k or whatever but they should really add something tangible to make this matter like winner of it all gets the thirty first pick In the draft.
First pick in the draft is absolutely a nonstarter, though. There's no way to make that work.
he said 31st pick

Ah my mistake - however, many of the same problems. What happens when a team trades their only second-rounder and then wins the in-season tournament? Does the team they traded it to get that pick (as normal)? What's the incentive?

It’s actually not that hard and happens in lots of other sports. For example in baseball teams are awarded compensatory picks all the time for having free agents leave. They are also awarded in the NFL and NHL. You just would have language it is not eligible for pick swaps or whatever. When they were discussing this tournament this was brought up and I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually happens in the future.

So this would be a separate pick in addition to the team's normal 2nd rounder? That could work, although 31 might be too valuable if they aren't giving up anything (like they would be if swapping their 2nd). It would be easy to move that pick around, though, there's no reason they couldn't put it at like 41 or something (or give the option between getting another pick (say #41) or swapping your second rounder for #31)

As one of the people who brought up the problems with playing for draft picks or draft position in the earlier threads, it's important to highlight one crucial difference between the situations that Clay has highlighted with compensatory picks and the like: players are not usually competing for the right for their team to have more opportunities to draft their replacements, nor will they (and they shouldn't, really). This is the inverse of the major failings with 'The Process', in some ways - if the reward for winning is draft picks, players are incentivised not to win the tournament, because winning the tournament (for picks) only benefits management.

The overall goal is good basketball that people care about early in the season - which means you need to have player buy-in and engagement. If that is the goal, why on earth would anyone in the league play harder for the team to have more picks vs a payout?

It's not just about player buy in, it's about everybody buying in (players, coaches, ownership/management, fans).

$500k award to motivate the players
Extra pick to motivate ownership/management/diehard fans

Doesn't have to be either/or.

I understand what you're saying, but I would say that the current system has enough buy-in enough from coaches, ownership, and management already, save perhaps the point differential (that extra game is an extra game's worth of gate receipts, which ownership loves).

Let me put my concern another way: If you're an end-of-the-bench guy, maybe on an expiring contract or a two-way deal, is $500k enough motivation to help your team draft your replacement?

Does the motivation of an end of bench guy matter?  Which end of bench guys have played impactful minutes in one of these tournament games?  If JD Davison or Jordan Walsh or Lamar Stevens are less motivated now would you notice?

Or do you think the rotation guys will play less hard because one of their end of bench teammates might lose his spot in a year?  I do not think that is the case.  These are athletes that compete hard, and the stars always want more help (maybe not from a rookie, but for an asset that can be traded).

An extra pick wouldn't motivate players, but I don't think it would demotivate them either (at least not in Nov/Dec for a non lottery pick).  Any player that is so insecure about their spot a year out, that they don't want to win games now in fear of their spot being taken a year from now, is not a player I'm worried about.

Give money to help motivate the players.
Give a pick to help motivate fans like clay (and any other coaches/ownership that hasn't yet bought in).

To specifically answer your question.  Let's say I'm JD Davison (do two-way players qualify for the $500k?), I have no idea if I'm going to be still with this team or even in the league next year regardless of if my team gets an extra pick or not, so give me the $500k now.

That would be my mentality.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 12:48:15 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1129 on: November 29, 2023, 01:49:52 PM »

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That is a monster stat line from Evan Mobley last night.

17pts 19rebs 7blks

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1130 on: November 29, 2023, 01:52:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
I understand what you're saying, but I would say that the current system has enough buy-in enough from coaches, ownership, and management already, save perhaps the point differential (that extra game is an extra game's worth of gate receipts, which ownership loves).

That's something that I was thinking about, actually.

The Celtics had 40 home games and 40 away games before the in-season tournament.  Now, they've got 40 homes games and 41 away games.  If they advance in the tournament, they'll have 40 home games, 41 away games, and 1 neutral game (and another neutral site game if they advance to the IST Finals)

The Celtics have lost a home game, and the revenue associated with that.  Is that made up via the neutral site games?


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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1131 on: November 29, 2023, 03:03:43 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So a couple spare thoughts on the schedule now that the IST stuff has been set.

-The Celtics will be well rested for their next few games. Two full days off before vs76ers. Two full days between that and @Pacers Monday. Then if they win that game and advance in the IST there two full days before semi finals Thursday. Then two full days after IST Saturday before their first game back Tuesday the 12th. So after playing basically all of November without a 2 day break between games they'll get a few of them the next 10+ days, even with a potential extra IST Finals game. Should make for good basketball.

-If they LOSE to the pacers Monday they will play the loser of Bucks/Knicks Friday Dec 8th. They will probably play it had home.

-A few teams got a lucky break schedule wise with the new schedule dropped. Minnesota will play SAS and MEM for their two new games. Dallas draws POR and UTA. Those are 4 of the worst teams in the league. Lucky break for Mineosta and Dallas.


Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1132 on: November 29, 2023, 07:28:32 PM »

Offline JSD

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Listening to George Blaha during games gives me a nice throwback nostalgic feeling. He reminds me of my grandad. I love it

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1133 on: November 29, 2023, 08:26:48 PM »

Offline JSD

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Imagine being a Pistons fan? Nobody to even be that excited about in my eyes

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1134 on: November 29, 2023, 08:28:40 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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Imagine being a Pistons fan? Nobody to even be that excited about in my eyes

What do you mean? They have a transcendent talent in Cade Cunningham.  :laugh:

Forgot who said that on here, but it should definitely go in the “bad takes” thread.
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Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1135 on: November 29, 2023, 08:31:43 PM »

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Imagine being a Pistons fan? Nobody to even be that excited about in my eyes

I saw Cade Cunningham calling out the team the other day. The guy is shooting 40% from the field 33% from 3, a TS% of just 50% with 4.5 turnovers per game. His defense is lousy. His offense is horribly inefficient & ineffective. His play is one the biggest reasons the team is struggling so badly. Who is he to call out his teammates? Awful.

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1136 on: November 29, 2023, 09:08:17 PM »

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Every game it feels like I am checking in to see if the Suns big three will play today or not. Never are. Then is it 1 or 2 of them that play today? 2 today. Booker and Durant.

Which is good. This is actually one of the better days. Their top two guys are playing.

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1137 on: November 29, 2023, 09:20:15 PM »

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Jamal Murray back for Denver.

Good matchup with Houston. Sengun vs Jokic.

Ah, no Fred Van Vleet for Houston. Bummer.

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1138 on: November 29, 2023, 09:21:44 PM »

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Houston 8-1 at home. 0-6 on the road.

Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Reply #1139 on: November 29, 2023, 09:43:55 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Houston 8-1 at home. 0-6 on the road.

Ime Udoka effect. Just need to get them to play well on the road and they'll be solid.


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