Patriots 2023 Season

[Roy H.]

Fields isn’t that young

He's 24.  That's pretty young.

He’s going into year 4 and will be 25 in a month. How many seasons does a QB get before they, “are what they are”?

He is literally 6 months younger than Mac Jones. I don't consider Mac that young, so that feels like it should apply to Fields. I agree they may just be what they are. Or they could take a jump. Who knows.

Mac is young, too.  Mac just seemingly has mental issues that have led to regression.

[green_bballers13]

I am hearing reporting along these lines more and more:

A consensus may be growing regarding quarterback Justin Fields' future with the Chicago Bears.

ESPN's Matt Miller reported Monday that "everyone I spoke to at the Senior Bowl" guessed the Bears will select USC star Caleb Williams and trade Fields for potentially a second-round pick.

Even after three seasons, it might be too early to write Fields off. He threw for 2,562 yards, 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions in 2023. Maybe a new offensive coordinator, Shane Waldron, helps to unlock a new level in the 24-year-old's game.

Doesn't mean there is any truth to it but I would be OK with a second round pick for Fields.  If the Pats were able to get Fields, I would probably trade #3 for multiple picks.  I am not of the belief that a single really good receiver (Harrison) moves the needle enough for a team with a lot of needs.  Trade back and stock up on OL and multiple skill positions weapons.  No need to put all your eggs in one receiver basket.

There would probably be competition for Fields if he was put on the market.  It would not be automatic that the Pats get him.

There’s a reason Chicago is likely moving on from Fields. He just isn’t good. Do people think Justin is going to play better throwing to Juju instead of DJ Moore? If he wasn’t very good with legitimate weapons in Chicago, how is he going to be any good in New England. The Pats do have a lot of holes and it is likely going to take multiple drafts to rebuild. Giving up draft capital for Fields would be a mistake, IMO.

It is tough to judge a young QB on a bad team.  I agree that if you think Daniels is a stud, just pick him.  But how do you know?  Many top QB picks never even get to the level of an average NFL QB. 

With Fields, the floor is a decent starting QB.  There is some ceiling potential.  Yes, he had weapons to throw to but didn't seem like he had a very good OL or overall system.  So it is hard to know.  But with Daniels (who is the likely option at #3), he is 23 years old and you don't know if he can be even a decent NFL QB.  Fields will only be 25 in March.

I think the decision is more about what you think of Daniels than what you think of Fields.  Again, if you believe Daniels is the real deal, then pick him.  That is easy.  But if you are not sold on Daniels, maybe trading back is a better option than using such a high pick on a WR or OT.

Fields isn’t that young. He’s going into year 4. If the floor is a decent starting QB, why are the Bears more than likely moving on from him? Chicago isn’t a great team, but they have more talent on offense than the Pats do. Not sure how Fields is going to  play better with worse talent.

I want the Pats to draft the player who’s virtually a can’t miss prospect and that is MHJ. This isn’t a one year rebuild. Also, not a great QB class. I’d guess that 1 out of the top 4 taken make it in the league. There are no Joe Burrows.  Let’s take the guy that is basically a sure thing. Also, he will more than likely be the best WR the Pats have ever drafted. Can grab a QB in the later rounds or in next years draft. You need elite receivers to win in todays NFL.

because a decent starting QB is not an elite starting QB and Williams can be elite.

Yeah, I don’t see it. Feel like Fields was a better looking prospect coming out of college than Williams is.

That’s a pretty aggressive position you’re taking there.  I’d probably keep Fields and take the mammoth offer they should get for Williams if I were the Bears, but Caleb is definitely the superior draft prospect of the two.  Are you trying to out-Moranis Moranis?

Idk, Justin Fields was a beast in college. Guess we shall see… Also, I’m not sold on Maye, either. Watched a few of his games this year. Wasn’t impressed.

Jayden Daniels was better than Maye and Williams this year. I'm hoping that Daniels falls to the Pats at 3.

[Moranis]

I am hearing reporting along these lines more and more:

A consensus may be growing regarding quarterback Justin Fields' future with the Chicago Bears.

ESPN's Matt Miller reported Monday that "everyone I spoke to at the Senior Bowl" guessed the Bears will select USC star Caleb Williams and trade Fields for potentially a second-round pick.

Even after three seasons, it might be too early to write Fields off. He threw for 2,562 yards, 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions in 2023. Maybe a new offensive coordinator, Shane Waldron, helps to unlock a new level in the 24-year-old's game.

Doesn't mean there is any truth to it but I would be OK with a second round pick for Fields.  If the Pats were able to get Fields, I would probably trade #3 for multiple picks.  I am not of the belief that a single really good receiver (Harrison) moves the needle enough for a team with a lot of needs.  Trade back and stock up on OL and multiple skill positions weapons.  No need to put all your eggs in one receiver basket.

There would probably be competition for Fields if he was put on the market.  It would not be automatic that the Pats get him.

There’s a reason Chicago is likely moving on from Fields. He just isn’t good. Do people think Justin is going to play better throwing to Juju instead of DJ Moore? If he wasn’t very good with legitimate weapons in Chicago, how is he going to be any good in New England. The Pats do have a lot of holes and it is likely going to take multiple drafts to rebuild. Giving up draft capital for Fields would be a mistake, IMO.

It is tough to judge a young QB on a bad team.  I agree that if you think Daniels is a stud, just pick him.  But how do you know?  Many top QB picks never even get to the level of an average NFL QB. 

With Fields, the floor is a decent starting QB.  There is some ceiling potential.  Yes, he had weapons to throw to but didn't seem like he had a very good OL or overall system.  So it is hard to know.  But with Daniels (who is the likely option at #3), he is 23 years old and you don't know if he can be even a decent NFL QB.  Fields will only be 25 in March.

I think the decision is more about what you think of Daniels than what you think of Fields.  Again, if you believe Daniels is the real deal, then pick him.  That is easy.  But if you are not sold on Daniels, maybe trading back is a better option than using such a high pick on a WR or OT.

Fields isn’t that young. He’s going into year 4. If the floor is a decent starting QB, why are the Bears more than likely moving on from him? Chicago isn’t a great team, but they have more talent on offense than the Pats do. Not sure how Fields is going to  play better with worse talent.

I want the Pats to draft the player who’s virtually a can’t miss prospect and that is MHJ. This isn’t a one year rebuild. Also, not a great QB class. I’d guess that 1 out of the top 4 taken make it in the league. There are no Joe Burrows.  Let’s take the guy that is basically a sure thing. Also, he will more than likely be the best WR the Pats have ever drafted. Can grab a QB in the later rounds or in next years draft. You need elite receivers to win in todays NFL.

because a decent starting QB is not an elite starting QB and Williams can be elite.

Yeah, I don’t see it. Feel like Fields was a better looking prospect coming out of college than Williams is.

That’s a pretty aggressive position you’re taking there.  I’d probably keep Fields and take the mammoth offer they should get for Williams if I were the Bears, but Caleb is definitely the superior draft prospect of the two.  Are you trying to out-Moranis Moranis?

Idk, Justin Fields was a beast in college. Guess we shall see… Also, I’m not sold on Maye, either. Watched a few of his games this year. Wasn’t impressed.

Jayden Daniels was better than Maye and Williams this year. I'm hoping that Daniels falls to the Pats at 3.

  Daniels had a better season in college, so what, it doesn't translate like that.  College stats have basically nothing to do with how good a player will be in the pros.

[celticsclay]

Fields isn’t that young

He's 24.  That's pretty young.

He’s going into year 4 and will be 25 in a month. How many seasons does a QB get before they, “are what they are”?

He is literally 6 months younger than Mac Jones. I don't consider Mac that young, so that feels like it should apply to Fields. I agree they may just be what they are. Or they could take a jump. Who knows.

Mac is young, too.  Mac just seemingly has mental issues that have led to regression.

Yes some would argue he had mental issues going back to college. Others argue that belicheck ruined him, particularly aggravated by not letting him pass in a blizzard. I believe Mac jones has maturity issues like a long list of quarterbacks before him and hope he can find a long career as a backup.

[celticsclay]

I am hearing reporting along these lines more and more:

A consensus may be growing regarding quarterback Justin Fields' future with the Chicago Bears.

ESPN's Matt Miller reported Monday that "everyone I spoke to at the Senior Bowl" guessed the Bears will select USC star Caleb Williams and trade Fields for potentially a second-round pick.

Even after three seasons, it might be too early to write Fields off. He threw for 2,562 yards, 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions in 2023. Maybe a new offensive coordinator, Shane Waldron, helps to unlock a new level in the 24-year-old's game.

Doesn't mean there is any truth to it but I would be OK with a second round pick for Fields.  If the Pats were able to get Fields, I would probably trade #3 for multiple picks.  I am not of the belief that a single really good receiver (Harrison) moves the needle enough for a team with a lot of needs.  Trade back and stock up on OL and multiple skill positions weapons.  No need to put all your eggs in one receiver basket.

There would probably be competition for Fields if he was put on the market.  It would not be automatic that the Pats get him.

There’s a reason Chicago is likely moving on from Fields. He just isn’t good. Do people think Justin is going to play better throwing to Juju instead of DJ Moore? If he wasn’t very good with legitimate weapons in Chicago, how is he going to be any good in New England. The Pats do have a lot of holes and it is likely going to take multiple drafts to rebuild. Giving up draft capital for Fields would be a mistake, IMO.

It is tough to judge a young QB on a bad team.  I agree that if you think Daniels is a stud, just pick him.  But how do you know?  Many top QB picks never even get to the level of an average NFL QB. 

With Fields, the floor is a decent starting QB.  There is some ceiling potential.  Yes, he had weapons to throw to but didn't seem like he had a very good OL or overall system.  So it is hard to know.  But with Daniels (who is the likely option at #3), he is 23 years old and you don't know if he can be even a decent NFL QB.  Fields will only be 25 in March.

I think the decision is more about what you think of Daniels than what you think of Fields.  Again, if you believe Daniels is the real deal, then pick him.  That is easy.  But if you are not sold on Daniels, maybe trading back is a better option than using such a high pick on a WR or OT.

Fields isn’t that young. He’s going into year 4. If the floor is a decent starting QB, why are the Bears more than likely moving on from him? Chicago isn’t a great team, but they have more talent on offense than the Pats do. Not sure how Fields is going to  play better with worse talent.

I want the Pats to draft the player who’s virtually a can’t miss prospect and that is MHJ. This isn’t a one year rebuild. Also, not a great QB class. I’d guess that 1 out of the top 4 taken make it in the league. There are no Joe Burrows.  Let’s take the guy that is basically a sure thing. Also, he will more than likely be the best WR the Pats have ever drafted. Can grab a QB in the later rounds or in next years draft. You need elite receivers to win in todays NFL.

because a decent starting QB is not an elite starting QB and Williams can be elite.

Yeah, I don’t see it. Feel like Fields was a better looking prospect coming out of college than Williams is.

That’s a pretty aggressive position you’re taking there.  I’d probably keep Fields and take the mammoth offer they should get for Williams if I were the Bears, but Caleb is definitely the superior draft prospect of the two.  Are you trying to out-Moranis Moranis?

Idk, Justin Fields was a beast in college. Guess we shall see… Also, I’m not sold on Maye, either. Watched a few of his games this year. Wasn’t impressed.

Jayden Daniels was better than Maye and Williams this year. I'm hoping that Daniels falls to the Pats at 3.

  Daniels had a better season in college, so what, it doesn't translate like that.  College stats have basically nothing to do with how good a player will be in the pros.

Mo is right on this one. Jayden was in his 5th season. Comparing him to Williams in his second season is absurd. This thread has shown a lot of people don’t really follow college football regularly but now are discussing quarterbacks because patriots finally have a high pick. Jayden could be fine and a late bloomer but history not really on his side. But the guys pumping penix as a top ten pick were absolutely ridiculous.

[Goldstar88]

During a recent interview with “The Zach Gelb Show” on CBS Sports, Bourne was asked why Patricia “put him in the doghouse” following his productive 2021 season.

“That’s a good question,” Bourne replied. “I really don’t know. I was coming off my best year, so I was thinking I’m going back in, I’m going to be able to be out there. I guess he just had different plans, so I’m not sure.”

“I can honestly say too I could’ve been better too in certain areas, but I was getting into the game with it, feeling sorry for myself,” Bourne admitted. “I kind of fell victim to the situation. I could’ve approached it probably differently as I think about it. But also, when you have your best players, you give your best players the opportunity to play, I feel like.”

Additionally, Bourne acknowledged what was plainly obvious about the final two years of the Bill Belichick era.

“It was just two years of roughness, of kind of rebuilding, of trying to find who we were, and I think it was kind of a toxic place,” Bourne explained. “People [were] pointing the fingers and things like that in the locker room. Not too bad, but you could feel the energy.”

[Phantom255x]

During a recent interview with “The Zach Gelb Show” on CBS Sports, Bourne was asked why Patricia “put him in the doghouse” following his productive 2021 season.

“That’s a good question,” Bourne replied. “I really don’t know. I was coming off my best year, so I was thinking I’m going back in, I’m going to be able to be out there. I guess he just had different plans, so I’m not sure.”

“I can honestly say too I could’ve been better too in certain areas, but I was getting into the game with it, feeling sorry for myself,” Bourne admitted. “I kind of fell victim to the situation. I could’ve approached it probably differently as I think about it. But also, when you have your best players, you give your best players the opportunity to play, I feel like.”

Additionally, Bourne acknowledged what was plainly obvious about the final two years of the Bill Belichick era.

“It was just two years of roughness, of kind of rebuilding, of trying to find who we were, and I think it was kind of a toxic place,” Bourne explained. “People [were] pointing the fingers and things like that in the locker room. Not too bad, but you could feel the energy.”

Belichick and Patricia/Judge basically sabatoged that season. It wasn't just Mac Jones and Bourne, it felt like almost our entire offense regressed with the exception of Stevenson. O-Line also got worse, and then we also lost some guys in the following offseason so it was even worse 2023.

What's ironic is, they tried to implement the Shanahan system with two guys who had no clue how to run that offense, and the one guy who had experience playing in that offense (Bourne - former Niners) they put him in the doghouse for "speaking out of term" 

I do love how Patricia really helped the Philly defense mid-season though!

I think teams are wising up now though. McDaniels, Judge and others are probably banished from coaching. Patricia too. Like these guys got opportunities in the past but now most teams are deciding to go the younger and more modern route. Probably also explains why Belichick couldn't find a job either.

[Goldstar88]

During a recent interview with “The Zach Gelb Show” on CBS Sports, Bourne was asked why Patricia “put him in the doghouse” following his productive 2021 season.

“That’s a good question,” Bourne replied. “I really don’t know. I was coming off my best year, so I was thinking I’m going back in, I’m going to be able to be out there. I guess he just had different plans, so I’m not sure.”

“I can honestly say too I could’ve been better too in certain areas, but I was getting into the game with it, feeling sorry for myself,” Bourne admitted. “I kind of fell victim to the situation. I could’ve approached it probably differently as I think about it. But also, when you have your best players, you give your best players the opportunity to play, I feel like.”

Additionally, Bourne acknowledged what was plainly obvious about the final two years of the Bill Belichick era.

“It was just two years of roughness, of kind of rebuilding, of trying to find who we were, and I think it was kind of a toxic place,” Bourne explained. “People [were] pointing the fingers and things like that in the locker room. Not too bad, but you could feel the energy.”

Belichick and Patricia/Judge basically sabatoged that season. It wasn't just Mac Jones and Bourne, it felt like almost our entire offense regressed with the exception of Stevenson. O-Line also got worse, and then we also lost some guys in the following offseason so it was even worse 2023.

What's ironic is, they tried to implement the Shanahan system with two guys who had no clue how to run that offense, and the one guy who had experience playing in that offense (Bourne - former Niners) they put him in the doghouse for "speaking out of term" 

I do love how Patricia really helped the Philly defense mid-season though!

I think teams are wising up now though. McDaniels, Judge and others are probably banished from coaching. Patricia too. Like these guys got opportunities in the past but now most teams are deciding to go the younger and more modern route. Probably also explains why Belichick couldn't find a job either.

Lines that stood out to me the most:

But also, when you have your best players, you give your best players the opportunity to play, I feel like.”

“It was just two years of roughness, of kind of rebuilding, of trying to find who we were, and I think it was kind of a toxic place,”

Trent Brown shared similar sentiments. Not good.

[Phantom255x]

Trade 1: Patriots trade 3rd round pick (#68) for Justin Fields outright

Trade 2: Patriots trade down from #3 to Minnesota for Justin Jefferson, #11, and 2025 1st rounder

Trade 3: Bailey Zappe dumped to another team for a 4th or 5th round pick

Backup QB: Sign Jacoby Brissett on a 1/6M deal to be a veteran backup/bridge (Mac Jones I guess can stick around and "compete" for a job, tbh I doubt he has much of a trade market)

Use #11 on a tackle, either Fashanu or Latham depending on who is available (Alt is probably already gone).

Re-sign Onwenu to something like 5/90M (50M guaranteed), Henry 3 years/42M (24M guaranteed), keep Elliott + Bourne on reasonable deals. Dugger probably gets overpaid elsewhere (a team like the Rams or Chargers). The team does have a lot of cap space to use so I'm sure they can fill some of the other holes as well with some solid depth. Jefferson can be the WR1 of the future here and you can extend him. Jefferson/Douglas/Bourne/Parker/Juju. Not bad.

What do people think of this? Especially if they aren't sold on Maye or Daniels. I'm of the mindset that if you're not sold on either at #3 and they are the 3rd QB taken this draft, it's probably best to not take them for the sake of taking them. If they are super sold on a QB or Marvin Harrison Jr. and feel they can add a QB via FA, then sure. If not, I like this plan^^

[Vermont Green]

Trade 1: Patriots trade 3rd round pick (#68) for Justin Fields outright

Trade 2: Patriots trade down from #3 to Minnesota for Justin Jefferson, #11, and 2025 1st rounder

Trade 3: Bailey Zappe dumped to another team for a 4th or 5th round pick

Backup QB: Sign Jacoby Brissett on a 1/6M deal to be a veteran backup/bridge (Mac Jones I guess can stick around and "compete" for a job, tbh I doubt he has much of a trade market)

Use #11 on a tackle, either Fashanu or Latham depending on who is available (Alt is probably already gone).

Re-sign Onwenu to something like 5/90M (50M guaranteed), Henry 3 years/42M (24M guaranteed), keep Elliott + Bourne on reasonable deals. Dugger probably gets overpaid elsewhere (a team like the Rams or Chargers). The team does have a lot of cap space to use so I'm sure they can fill some of the other holes as well with some solid depth. Jefferson can be the WR1 of the future here and you can extend him. Jefferson/Douglas/Bourne/Parker/Juju. Not bad.

What do people think of this? Especially if they aren't sold on Maye or Daniels. I'm of the mindset that if you're not sold on either at #3 and they are the 3rd QB taken this draft, it's probably best to not take them for the sake of taking them. If they are super sold on a QB or Marvin Harrison Jr. and feel they can add a QB via FA, then sure. If not, I like this plan^^

If we can get Fields for a 3rd rounder, great, I do that.

I would also be open to trading the #3 pick.  Getting Jefferson and additional draft capital seems very favorable to the Pats.  I am also not big on committing heavy assets to the receiver position.  I think teams can be fine with a good QB, a good OL, and average receivers.  If either the OL or the QB isn't good, it doesn't matter how good your receivers are.  But as stated, that would be a good trade and a trade I would do.

From there, yeah, invest in the OL to protect Fields, I am fine with Mac as the back up (no need to bring in Brissett).

As to drafting, there is a ton of risk in using a high pick on a QB.  It tends to be boom or bust.  Busting with the 3rd pick would be so damaging.  Of course getting a stud QB could set the team up for years.  By trading the 3rd pick for a variety of assets, you give up the chance for that stud QB but you spread the risk out.  It is a very tough call.

[Roy H.]

Fields will fetch at least a second rounder I think.

[PAOBoston]

Fields will fetch at least a second rounder I think.

I’d be shocked at that. 3rd or 4th rounder more likely.

[Roy H.]

Fields will fetch at least a second rounder I think.

I’d be shocked at that. 3rd or 4th rounder more likely.

That's not what every plugged in NFL reporter is predicting.

[Vermont Green]

This reporting is from January, but it is all I could find:

If the Bears trade Fields, they could get a draft pick as high as a second rounder, which takes into account recent quarterback trades.

The consensus in an informal poll of league evaluators is that Fields would be worth a second- or third-round pick in a pre-draft trade. When compared to former top-10 picks recently traded, that’s better than Trey Lance, whom Dallas acquired from San Francisco for a fourth-round pick, but slightly worse than Sam Darnold, who, along with a sixth-round pick, went from the Jets to Carolina in exchange for second- and fourth-rounders.

A second round pick is probably about right, but to say a third and maybe a 6th or something like that, wouldn't necessarily be all that far off either.  I don't know.  It seems getting Fields for either a 2nd or a 3rd is still a good trade.  A 4th is probably unrealistic.  He has been an average NFL QB for a couple of seasons, on a bad team.  That is quite a bit more than you can say about either Sam Darnold or Trey Lance (or Mac Jones).

[Vermont Green]

With the potential of losing Cousins for nothing this offseason, the Vikings have been a hot candidate to draft a quarterback in a stacked QB class. Orlovsky said the Vikings should move up to take one of the top quarterbacks to replace Cousins and keep Jefferson happy.

"Minnesota is going to have to make a move at quarterback," Orlovsky said. "Last year they tried to go up and get Anthony [Richardson]. At least per reports. I don't know if those are 100% accurate but they tried to get Richardson. I could see them moving up again this year."

There has been a lot of talk about the Vikings trading Jefferson, which I didn't understand.  I guess the logic is that the can't afford both Cousins and Jefferson.  What Orlovsky says here is that the Vikings are probably looking to move up to get a young QB, but not then trading Jefferson too.  This seems to make more sense.  If you move up to take a QB, you are not going to sign Cousins too.  If you don't sign Cousins, you probably have the money to keep Jefferson.

MIN has pick #11.  That is not a bad place to start.  I don't think we necessarily need to have Jefferson in the trade for it to be potentially a good trade.  They also have pick #42.  So pick #11, pick #42, and a first next season for the #3?  is that fair value?  Or could we get more?