« Reply #1173 on: December 07, 2023, 09:09:04 PM »
The Pats receivers are not fine, but simply by adding a true #1, they'd improve immensely. They need a guy that can put pressure on the opposing secondary, lessen the role of the other receivers, and serve as a safety net for the QB. They have no one even close to that on the roster, but there are usually a couple of veteran guys available every off season and a couple of future #1's in basically every draft (MHJ may even come immediately this draft and be that guy from the jump). They should have signed Hopkins. Not what he once was, but still a back end #1. He'd have helped a lot.
Can they afford to take Harrison? No doubt he's a game changer, but without a QB how much would he help the Pats?
They’re more than a player away. I’d take Harrison, continue to suck, and get the QB in 2025 when you’re at the top of the draft again.
Completely agree. Harrison Jr looks to be a “can’t miss” prospect. Pats could use one of those. The QB’s in this draft (and in general) are so unpredictable when it comes to how they will do at the next level. Would prefer going with MHJ.
the Pats have to take a qb if they are top 2 or have to trade back a few spots and pick up a ton of assets.
Did you read anything that I or Celtics2021 wrote?
I’m guessing no… 
The Pats are very likely going to be bad again next year, regardless of who they take with their first pick. You can take a QB next year with the top pick. Marvin Harrison Jr looks to be a generational talent.
so are williams and maye and they play a much more important position. the pats have to take a QB if they get in the top 2 or trade the pick to move back a few spots and pick up a ton of assets. If they don't like williams or maye, then trade the pick to a team that does.
You state that Williams and Maye are generational talents and then suggest that if the Pats don’t like either of them they should trade the pick. That doesn’t make any sense.
From a value standpoint, if they do have top 2 pick and aren’t planning on drafting a QB, then they should trade back. Even if it’s just back a spot to take Harrison. Get the guy you want plus asset or assets for moving back
If you are a team that is likely going to finish the season with 2 wins, you don’t pass on a QB that is a generational talent. Moranis suggesting that both of these guys are such players is a stretch to say the least. Mac Jones was a better prospect coming out of college.
What are you basing this on?
A national championship and all of this:
Records set by Mac Jones
From the NCAA: Here are some of the notable records and statistical rankings set by Jones in college:
1st in FBS history in passing efficiency rating in a season: 203.1 (2020)
1st in FBS history in completion percentage in a season (min. 150 attempts): 77.4 percent (2020)
1st in FBS history in yards per attempt in a season (min. 400 attempts): 11.2 yards (2020)
1st in the FBS in passing efficiency rating in 2020: 203.1
1st in Alabama history in passing yards in a season: 4,514 yards (2020)
1st in Alabama history in passing yards per game in a season: 347.2 yards (2020)
1st in Alabama history in yards per play in a game (min. 20 attempts): 14.9 yards (Oct. 3, 2020 vs. Texas A&M)
1st in Alabama history in completions in a game: 36 completions (Jan. 11, 2021 vs. Ohio State)
1st in Alabama history in single-game completion percentage (min. 30 attempts): 80 percent (Jan. 11, 2021 vs. Ohio State)
1st in Alabama history in single-season completion percentage (min. 50 completions): 68.8 percent (2019)
1st in Alabama history in single-season completion percentage (min. 200 completions): 77.4 percent (2020)
1st in Alabama history in consecutive completions: 19 completions
2nd in FBS history in career passing efficiency rating in a career (400-499 completions): 197.6
2nd in Alabama history in passing yards in a game: 475 yards (Jan. 11, 2021 vs. Ohio State)
2nd in Alabama history in passing touchdowns in a season: 42 touchdowns (2020)
that doesn't make him a better prospect. He wasn't. Williams and Maye are both much better prospects than Jones was. It isn't close.
It does make him a more successful college QB, but that often is not an indicator of NFL success. I mean look at Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and countless other great NFL QB and how they did in college. Now sure you do have guys like Lawrence who are both, but Lawrence is much more a rarity than the norm for a highly rated QB in the draft.
Mo is correct on this one. By any objective measure Mac jones is not the same caliber of prospect as the two guys this year.
My recollection as well. It was Lawrence by a wide margin. Then, for the most part, you had Wilson, Mac, Lance, & Fields below.
And Lance was a wild card who shot up late.
Better question would be how Williams/Maye stack up against Lawrence.
Correct, it was Lawrence by a wide margin. The “experts” were projecting him to be the next Peyton Manning. I’m not debating that. Just saying that “I” think Mac looked like a better prospect his last year in college than Maye or Caleb Williams do now. Those guys aren’t exactly putting up gaudy numbers and their teams are not winning that much.. I wouldn’t be surprised if both turn out to be busts, which is why I’d prefer taking Harrison Jr. If Joe Burrow was in this coming draft, I’d 100% say grab him. These two QB’s are not on that level, though. They are not generational talents.
I agree. I've watched a decent amount of Caleb and Drake this year (expecting that the Pats would stink and one of them would fall to us). I'm not that impressed. Caleb seems better out of the pocket, like Fields. Drake Maye looks like a pretty good QB, but not a great one. Both will be better than Mac. I'm not convinced that either will be way better than Justin Fields. I hope the Pats solidify the offensive line, draft Harrison, and trade for Fields or Minshew.
This way they are investing less in a QB. I think drafting a QB at 1 or 2 that can't win regularly in college could be problematic. Reminds me of Ben Simmons.
what does can't win regularly mean? Williams was 9-2 at OU. USC was 11-3 last year and tailed off some to 7-5 this year. Maye is at UNC so hard to get a true gauge since UNC is not the big football schools, but UNC hadn't won 9 games since 2015 before last year with Maye
Regularly is prob not the right word. They aren't winning as expected. Generational "sure thing" players like Trevor Lawrence, Andrew Luck, and Peyton Manning had very high winning percentages in college. We can provide excuses for Caleb Williams or Drake Maye, but if selected 1 and 2, they will come into a dire situation and be expected to win with less relative talent than they had in college.
Williams has a similar win percentage as Luck, he just had his worst year this year, while Luck's was his first year starting (which obviously isn't a great look, but USC just sort of fell apart the last few games this year). Tennessee certainly won a lot with Peyton, but they also went unbeaten and won the national championship the year after Peyton left (showing just how much talent there was). Lawrence obviously kept on winning with Clemson, but it isn't like they hadn't won the national championship with Watson right before Lawrence got there. Every scenario is different. If Maye was at Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, etc. he'd look like Burrow. Same with Williams (though while USC is down, it is still USC). In college, where you go to school matters so much, I mean look at a guy like Mac Jones. 13-0 wins it all because he was at Alabama.
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2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick
Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip
