Patriots 2023 Season

[Moranis]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

[Phantom255x]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

Wynn is no longer here but make no mistake, the guy sucked anyways even when Brady was here. I also think for many of the years, we can't discount that Scarneccia was here and that made a big difference. And they had solid depth. This team is relying a ton on rookies to currently fill in, and honestly Cole Strange blows too. His "busts" in blocking are so bad and it leads to guys just running right at Mac with no resistance 1 second in. Onwenu has also been hurt so yeah, not good overall.

I don't think Burrow/Allen/Mahomes would have much success behind this O-Line either and the lack of weapons. Better than Mac? Absolutely. But still not enough to make them a true contender.

[Moranis]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

Wynn is no longer here but make no mistake, the guy sucked anyways even when Brady was here. I also think for many of the years, we can't discount that Scarneccia was here and that made a big difference. And they had solid depth. This team is relying a ton on rookies to currently fill in, and honestly Cole Strange blows too. His "busts" in blocking are so bad and it leads to guys just running right at Mac with no resistance 1 second in. Onwenu has also been hurt so yeah, not good overall.

I don't think Burrow/Allen/Mahomes would have much success behind this O-Line either and the lack of weapons. Better than Mac? Absolutely. But still not enough to make them a true contender.

sorry I was accidentally looking at last year. Wynn is in Miami.  They brought Reiff in to replace him.  A solid though old veteran.  They played better for Strange's 2 games (Miami and jets).  I just think that while the OL is bad, I'm not sure how much worse it is than several of the prior few seasons.  When you have 1 of the worst QB's in the sport, it doesn't matter all that much who is at the other positions though obviously Mac hasn't been given real help either.

[Phantom255x]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

Wynn is no longer here but make no mistake, the guy sucked anyways even when Brady was here. I also think for many of the years, we can't discount that Scarneccia was here and that made a big difference. And they had solid depth. This team is relying a ton on rookies to currently fill in, and honestly Cole Strange blows too. His "busts" in blocking are so bad and it leads to guys just running right at Mac with no resistance 1 second in. Onwenu has also been hurt so yeah, not good overall.

I don't think Burrow/Allen/Mahomes would have much success behind this O-Line either and the lack of weapons. Better than Mac? Absolutely. But still not enough to make them a true contender.

sorry I was accidentally looking at last year. Wynn is in Miami.  They brought Reiff in to replace him.  A solid though old veteran.  They played better for Strange's 2 games (Miami and jets).  I just think that while the OL is bad, I'm not sure how much worse it is than several of the prior few seasons.  When you have 1 of the worst QB's in the sport, it doesn't matter all that much who is at the other positions though obviously Mac hasn't been given real help either.

Since 2020, the only time I felt the O-Line was functional for us was in the middle of 2021, which go figure, coincided with the 7-game winning streak the Pats had that season that helped them go 10-7 and Mac looked very promising.

We didn't have Trent Brown in 2019 + 2020 and missed him.

Reiff actually looked very good this past Sunday, the problem is it was his first time playing this season since he was on IR before that. He missed the first four games.

Statistically, it might not be worse than some previous years, but when they mess up it's so bad. Like open pass rushers with no resistance from the LOS just charging at a QB. Trent Brown and Cole Strange whiffing on blocks. Our RBs can't run because of the poor blocking too. Some of it is probably also on coaching. But even when Mac has "time", our O-Line tends to get pushed around and there's guys on our O-Line going backward and being pushed towards/into Mac

[Goldstar88]

Speaking during the most recent episode of his SiriusXM podcast, “Let’s Go!“, Brady responded to a question about how he thinks Belichick is handling the current crisis in New England.

“I think the results are different from what they’ve been, but I know that he’s still got the same work ethic, he’s got the same coaching style,” Brady said. “I think the thing that I think as I watch not only the Patriots, but a lot of other things, football’s a hard sport. You know, it was very different when I was in there because I could control a lot of the outcome. When I’m sitting here watching from afar I realize, God, there are a lot of variables, there are a lot of things that need to go right in order to have team success.

Current Patriots quarterback Mac Jones has been criticized for his role in the disastrous 1-4 start. But as Brady pointed out, even when he was in New England (and playing at an elite level), the team succeeded or failed as a unit.

“I was a part of a lot of those teams and I didn’t take any of those things for granted. I needed a great defense. I needed a great kicker. Obviously, I needed a great coach,” Brady added. “I needed great receivers and a great O-line. If I was going to be successful as a player, I needed all those things. And I was fortunate to have a lot of those things over a long period of time.

“It takes a great coaching staff to win. It takes great players to win. It takes great front office support to win,” Brady said. “It’s an organizational win. It’s an organizational loss. To ascribe a win or loss to one player — and they did that for me a lot with winning and I always say, ‘It’s not about me, it’s about us.’ When you lose, as a leader…you take the blame and you give the credit when you win. But at the end of the day it’s a team sport.”

Funny quotes - talks about it being an organisational win or loss, but without him having a lot of the control it has tended a lot more towards the latter. It's a much harder sport when the GOAT isn't taking snaps

This is true for more or less every historic coach, though - Belicheck's record without Brady isn't great, but neither is Pop's without Duncan, Jackson's without Jordan/Kobe/Shaq, and so on.

The thing about the Pats (at least, to my memory, this may not be true for the on-the-ground fandom these days) is that big losses under Beli always felt like aberrations. One-offs that were due to be course-corrected in a week's time. Back to back beatdowns simply didn't happen. And that's a massive shift.

Thing is, Bill has had zero success without Brady. Other coaches have done well with different QB’s. McVay recently made it to a SB with Goff and then won with Stafford. Andy Reid made it to a SB with McNabb and won 2 with Mahomes.

[SparzWizard]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

Wynn is no longer here but make no mistake, the guy sucked anyways even when Brady was here. I also think for many of the years, we can't discount that Scarneccia was here and that made a big difference. And they had solid depth. This team is relying a ton on rookies to currently fill in, and honestly Cole Strange blows too. His "busts" in blocking are so bad and it leads to guys just running right at Mac with no resistance 1 second in. Onwenu has also been hurt so yeah, not good overall.

I don't think Burrow/Allen/Mahomes would have much success behind this O-Line either and the lack of weapons. Better than Mac? Absolutely. But still not enough to make them a true contender.

sorry I was accidentally looking at last year. Wynn is in Miami.  They brought Reiff in to replace him.  A solid though old veteran.  They played better for Strange's 2 games (Miami and jets).  I just think that while the OL is bad, I'm not sure how much worse it is than several of the prior few seasons.  When you have 1 of the worst QB's in the sport, it doesn't matter all that much who is at the other positions though obviously Mac hasn't been given real help either.

Since 2020, the only time I felt the O-Line was functional for us was in the middle of 2021, which go figure, coincided with the 7-game winning streak the Pats had that season that helped them go 10-7 and Mac looked very promising.

We didn't have Trent Brown in 2019 + 2020 and missed him.

Reiff actually looked very good this past Sunday, the problem is it was his first time playing this season since he was on IR before that. He missed the first four games.

Statistically, it might not be worse than some previous years, but when they mess up it's so bad. Like open pass rushers with no resistance from the LOS just charging at a QB. Trent Brown and Cole Strange whiffing on blocks. Our RBs can't run because of the poor blocking too. Some of it is probably also on coaching. But even when Mac has "time", our O-Line tends to get pushed around and there's guys on our O-Line going backward and being pushed towards/into Mac

The Pats also had a somewhat competent or experienced OC in 2021 than say last season.

[Goldstar88]

Don't the Pats have 3 starting OL that were starting OL with Brady still on the team i.e. Brown, Andrews, and Wynn.  I know they are older and there have been some injuries at guard, but I'm also not sure the OL is all that much worse now than it has been the last 7 or 8 years (at least when healthy).  They were healthier the first 2 games in which the Pats did play better.  Mac just isn't good enough and the team has spent the last 2 plus seasons, telling the world they thought he wasn't good enough.  As I said last year, Mac hasn't been the same since the 3 pass game and they keep doing things telling Mac they don't believe in him.  The Pats destroyed his confidence and this is what happens when you do that.

Wynn is no longer here but make no mistake, the guy sucked anyways even when Brady was here. I also think for many of the years, we can't discount that Scarneccia was here and that made a big difference. And they had solid depth. This team is relying a ton on rookies to currently fill in, and honestly Cole Strange blows too. His "busts" in blocking are so bad and it leads to guys just running right at Mac with no resistance 1 second in. Onwenu has also been hurt so yeah, not good overall.

I don't think Burrow/Allen/Mahomes would have much success behind this O-Line either and the lack of weapons. Better than Mac? Absolutely. But still not enough to make them a true contender.

sorry I was accidentally looking at last year. Wynn is in Miami.  They brought Reiff in to replace him.  A solid though old veteran.  They played better for Strange's 2 games (Miami and jets).  I just think that while the OL is bad, I'm not sure how much worse it is than several of the prior few seasons.  When you have 1 of the worst QB's in the sport, it doesn't matter all that much who is at the other positions though obviously Mac hasn't been given real help either.

Since 2020, the only time I felt the O-Line was functional for us was in the middle of 2021, which go figure, coincided with the 7-game winning streak the Pats had that season that helped them go 10-7 and Mac looked very promising.

We didn't have Trent Brown in 2019 + 2020 and missed him.

Reiff actually looked very good this past Sunday, the problem is it was his first time playing this season since he was on IR before that. He missed the first four games.

Statistically, it might not be worse than some previous years, but when they mess up it's so bad. Like open pass rushers with no resistance from the LOS just charging at a QB. Trent Brown and Cole Strange whiffing on blocks. Our RBs can't run because of the poor blocking too. Some of it is probably also on coaching. But even when Mac has "time", our O-Line tends to get pushed around and there's guys on our O-Line going backward and being pushed towards/into Mac

Exactly. Mac has already shown what he can do in a stable environment and that was as a rookie. Did pretty well in Alabama, too. Many seem to have forgotten this. Bill the GM is by far the biggest issue for the Pats and drafting a QB is not going to solve that problem. Do people believe that if the Pats had Bryce Young instead of Mac Jones that the team wouldn’t be 1-4?

[ozgod]

Is it just me who is finding Bill's monosyllabic responses to questions in pressers really, really, REALLY obnoxious now? Like it was kind of funny initially but they were winning so whatever, over time it's gotten more annoying, but now with a team that's losing more often than not it's really grating to have to sit through it. It also feels like the journalists tolerated it when the team was winning because it was "Bill being Bill" and he could tell the media to take a hike because he'd won six rings but now it feels like they've run out of patience with him - a grumpy dude who refuses to share why his team sucked so bad. I was watching Boston Sports Tonight and compared his presser (today? yesterday?) with the one Joe Mazz, not one who was renowned for his pressers either, just did after the Philly game and it was night and day.

It's past time Bill is made to explain what he is doing commanding the rolling circus that is the Patriots instead of just grunting "we have to all play better, coach better". "How can you play better coach? What areas do you intend to work on?" "Just...play better."

[Goldstar88]

Is it just me who is finding Bill's monosyllabic responses to questions in pressers really, really, REALLY obnoxious now? Like it was kind of funny initially but they were winning so whatever, over time it's gotten more annoying, but now with a team that's losing more often than not it's really grating to have to sit through it. It also feels like the journalists tolerated it when the team was winning because it was "Bill being Bill" and he could tell the media to take a hike because he'd won six rings but now it feels like they've run out of patience with him - a grumpy dude who refuses to share why his team sucked so bad. I was watching Boston Sports Tonight and compared his presser (today? yesterday?) with the one Joe Mazz, not one who was renowned for his pressers either, just did after the Philly game and it was night and day.

It's past time Bill is made to explain what he is doing commanding the rolling circus that is the Patriots instead of just grunting "we have to all play better, coach better". "How can you play better coach? What areas do you intend to work on?" "Just...play better."

These are pretty detailed responses, no?

This was on Boston.com yesterday, Regarding Jakobi Myers and why he is no longer on the Patriots.

“Well, he was a free agent, and he signed with the Raiders,” Patriots coach Bill Belichick responded. “A lot of guys leave and change teams in free agency. But, yeah, Jakobi looks like he looked here.”

Belichick said that the Patriots met with Meyers in free agency and were “relatively” close to hammering out a deal. But ultimately, the Patriots opted to bring in JuJu Smith-Schuster instead.

So far this season, Smith-Schuster has 14 catches for 86 yards and no touchdowns. Meyers has 25 catches for 274 yards and three touchdowns.

“We haven’t been very productive offensively period,” Belichick said when asked about Smith-Schuster’s lack of production. “So, I’d be hard-pressed to say it’s just one guy.”

When asked if he’s seeing enough separation from the Patriots’ receivers, Belichick said: “We can be better in every area.”

[Phantom255x]

There's two ways I will approach this season depending on Sunday's result

Way 1: They Win Sunday

They move to 2-4. Hopefully they can shock the world and split BUF/MIA after, but even if not, they fall to 2-6 and you hope they beat the Commanders + Colts. Then right after the bye, they have 3 winnable games (Giants, Chargers, Steelers), and two late in the season against Broncos and Zach Wilson-Jets. Obviously BUF/KC too, but in this scenario at least they stay in the mix for a while and can salvage the season.

Way 2: They Lose Sunday

Tank tank tank! Even if not Caleb Williams, there are a lot of other options at QB (like Maye/McCarthy/Penix) or other positions, it's a very loaded draft this upcoming year.

[SparzWizard]

There's two ways I will approach this season depending on Sunday's result

Way 1: They Win Sunday

They move to 2-4. Hopefully they can shock the world and split BUF/MIA after, but even if not, they fall to 2-6 and you hope they beat the Commanders + Colts. Then right after the bye, they have 3 winnable games (Giants, Chargers, Steelers), and two late in the season against Broncos and Zach Wilson-Jets. Obviously BUF/KC too, but in this scenario at least they stay in the mix for a while and can salvage the season.

Way 2: They Lose Sunday

Tank tank tank! Even if not Caleb Williams, there are a lot of other options at QB (like Maye/McCarthy/Penix) or other positions, it's a very loaded draft this upcoming year.

Way 2 is more likely. I don't see them beating even a team like the Raiders with that sorry OL and offense. They get smothered by Buffalo and Miami. They may beat Washington but I wouldn't count on it. Just don't see how they can win any game after their bye week except possibly Denver.

Tank tank tank.

[ozgod]

Is it just me who is finding Bill's monosyllabic responses to questions in pressers really, really, REALLY obnoxious now? Like it was kind of funny initially but they were winning so whatever, over time it's gotten more annoying, but now with a team that's losing more often than not it's really grating to have to sit through it. It also feels like the journalists tolerated it when the team was winning because it was "Bill being Bill" and he could tell the media to take a hike because he'd won six rings but now it feels like they've run out of patience with him - a grumpy dude who refuses to share why his team sucked so bad. I was watching Boston Sports Tonight and compared his presser (today? yesterday?) with the one Joe Mazz, not one who was renowned for his pressers either, just did after the Philly game and it was night and day.

It's past time Bill is made to explain what he is doing commanding the rolling circus that is the Patriots instead of just grunting "we have to all play better, coach better". "How can you play better coach? What areas do you intend to work on?" "Just...play better."

These are pretty detailed responses, no?

This was on Boston.com yesterday, Regarding Jakobi Myers and why he is no longer on the Patriots.

“Well, he was a free agent, and he signed with the Raiders,” Patriots coach Bill Belichick responded. “A lot of guys leave and change teams in free agency. But, yeah, Jakobi looks like he looked here.”

Belichick said that the Patriots met with Meyers in free agency and were “relatively” close to hammering out a deal. But ultimately, the Patriots opted to bring in JuJu Smith-Schuster instead.

So far this season, Smith-Schuster has 14 catches for 86 yards and no touchdowns. Meyers has 25 catches for 274 yards and three touchdowns.

“We haven’t been very productive offensively period,” Belichick said when asked about Smith-Schuster’s lack of production. “So, I’d be hard-pressed to say it’s just one guy.”

When asked if he’s seeing enough separation from the Patriots’ receivers, Belichick said: “We can be better in every area.”

If you actually watched the Zoom meeting where he said that, it didn't seem very detailed at all. All stating the obvious.

[Goldstar88]

Is it just me who is finding Bill's monosyllabic responses to questions in pressers really, really, REALLY obnoxious now? Like it was kind of funny initially but they were winning so whatever, over time it's gotten more annoying, but now with a team that's losing more often than not it's really grating to have to sit through it. It also feels like the journalists tolerated it when the team was winning because it was "Bill being Bill" and he could tell the media to take a hike because he'd won six rings but now it feels like they've run out of patience with him - a grumpy dude who refuses to share why his team sucked so bad. I was watching Boston Sports Tonight and compared his presser (today? yesterday?) with the one Joe Mazz, not one who was renowned for his pressers either, just did after the Philly game and it was night and day.

It's past time Bill is made to explain what he is doing commanding the rolling circus that is the Patriots instead of just grunting "we have to all play better, coach better". "How can you play better coach? What areas do you intend to work on?" "Just...play better."

These are pretty detailed responses, no?

This was on Boston.com yesterday, Regarding Jakobi Myers and why he is no longer on the Patriots.

“Well, he was a free agent, and he signed with the Raiders,” Patriots coach Bill Belichick responded. “A lot of guys leave and change teams in free agency. But, yeah, Jakobi looks like he looked here.”

Belichick said that the Patriots met with Meyers in free agency and were “relatively” close to hammering out a deal. But ultimately, the Patriots opted to bring in JuJu Smith-Schuster instead.

So far this season, Smith-Schuster has 14 catches for 86 yards and no touchdowns. Meyers has 25 catches for 274 yards and three touchdowns.

“We haven’t been very productive offensively period,” Belichick said when asked about Smith-Schuster’s lack of production. “So, I’d be hard-pressed to say it’s just one guy.”

When asked if he’s seeing enough separation from the Patriots’ receivers, Belichick said: “We can be better in every area.”

If you actually watched the Zoom meeting where he said that, it didn't seem very detailed at all. All stating the obvious.

I was totally being facetious. His interviews are always asinine. I don’t tune in for them anymore.

[A Future of Stevens]

There's two ways I will approach this season depending on Sunday's result

Way 1: They Win Sunday

They move to 2-4. Hopefully they can shock the world and split BUF/MIA after, but even if not, they fall to 2-6 and you hope they beat the Commanders + Colts. Then right after the bye, they have 3 winnable games (Giants, Chargers, Steelers), and two late in the season against Broncos and Zach Wilson-Jets. Obviously BUF/KC too, but in this scenario at least they stay in the mix for a while and can salvage the season.

Way 2: They Lose Sunday

Tank tank tank! Even if not Caleb Williams, there are a lot of other options at QB (like Maye/McCarthy/Penix) or other positions, it's a very loaded draft this upcoming year.

Williams listing out the teams he would play for soured me a bit on him. On paper he is a Lawrence - esque tier talent. I would be ecstatic to get Maye. I haven't seen anything on the other two you listed.

I want the Patriots to invest time in a high level qb with production and ELITE tools. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I am done with "smart" Qbs with middling tools.

[Celtics2021]

There's two ways I will approach this season depending on Sunday's result

Way 1: They Win Sunday

They move to 2-4. Hopefully they can shock the world and split BUF/MIA after, but even if not, they fall to 2-6 and you hope they beat the Commanders + Colts. Then right after the bye, they have 3 winnable games (Giants, Chargers, Steelers), and two late in the season against Broncos and Zach Wilson-Jets. Obviously BUF/KC too, but in this scenario at least they stay in the mix for a while and can salvage the season.

Way 2: They Lose Sunday

Tank tank tank! Even if not Caleb Williams, there are a lot of other options at QB (like Maye/McCarthy/Penix) or other positions, it's a very loaded draft this upcoming year.

Williams listing out the teams he would play for soured me a bit on him. On paper he is a Lawrence - esque tier talent. I would be ecstatic to get Maye. I haven't seen anything on the other two you listed.

I want the Patriots to invest time in a high level qb with production and ELITE tools. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I am done with "smart" Qbs with middling tools.

He listed out the teams?  Didn’t see that — just heard he’d made vague “Don’t tank for me, I might stay in school and extra year” threats.