Does Brad suck at free agency?

[celticsclay]

I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here:

Our top 7 are pretty much set in some order: White/Brown/JT/KP/Rob/Al/Brogdon... We're not offering guys a ton of money and a 7th/8th man role at best. It's just not as attractive as some of y'all think it is.

A guy like JRich took a minimum, but he's going to start in Miami and it's where he started his career. Eric Gordon is going to be the 1st guard off the bench in Phoenix.

Without a clearly defined role, we don't have the $ to be interesting. To date, one player has signed for the non-taxpayer MLE this offseason: Reggie Jackson in Denver. A lot of guys have been able to get slightly more because teams can divvy up the TPMLE.

Are guys taking the vet minimum generally asking for more than the 8th spot in the rotation, though? 

Other teams are bound by the same constrictions we are, but they're filling the latter part of their rotation with solid-to-good players, and we aren't.

Beverley and Richardson could both potentially start if the likely trades of Harden & Herro respectively go through.

This is a fair point, and I think plays a role in some of these signings. On the other hand we certainly could have signed a few guys like zeller, Howard, cousins, whiteside etc who seem to have publicly indicated they would take any role even 15th man (then again outside of zeller nobody signed these guys). I wonder if we would have signed Tristan Thompson if we didn’t have our previous experience with him.

[RJ87]

I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here:

Our top 7 are pretty much set in some order: White/Brown/JT/KP/Rob/Al/Brogdon... We're not offering guys a ton of money and a 7th/8th man role at best. It's just not as attractive as some of y'all think it is.

A guy like JRich took a minimum, but he's going to start in Miami and it's where he started his career. Eric Gordon is going to be the 1st guard off the bench in Phoenix.

Without a clearly defined role, we don't have the $ to be interesting. To date, one player has signed for the non-taxpayer MLE this offseason: Reggie Jackson in Denver. A lot of guys have been able to get slightly more because teams can divvy up the TPMLE.

Are guys taking the vet minimum generally asking for more than the 8th spot in the rotation, though? 

Other teams are bound by the same constrictions we are, but they're filling the latter part of their rotation with solid-to-good players, and we aren't.

Beverley and Richardson could both potentially start if the likely trades of Harden & Herro respectively go through.

Richardson will likely start even if Herro isn't traded. They lost Vincent already and they're not going to go back to Lowry there. I could see them roll out a starting unit of Herro/JRich/Butler/Bam/Mystery Big with Caleb Martin off the bench.

[BASS_THUMPER]

Fam I know wrong thread but...

WHO is THIS?




I see the #8 but dont think it's Walker

*sippin*

merlot

[celticsclay]

Fam I know wrong thread but...

WHO is THIS?




I see the #8 but dont think it's Walker

*sippin*

merlot

How that merlot g?

[Boss_D]

It's Jeff Green

[mobilija]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

July 9, 2022
Traded Malik Fitts, Juwan Morgan, Aaron Nesmith, Nik Stauskas, Daniel Theis and a 2023 1st round draft pick (Julian Strawther was later selected) to the Indiana Pacers for Malcolm Brogdon. conditional 2023 1st-rd pick was BOS own, Indiana also receives a trade exception

This one caught my eye.  The pu pu platter scrubs all were part of the trade that got us Brogdon.  That same day, we signed Hauser, Kornet, and Davison.  Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

I'm not sure you understand my point of view. I think Brad has been a really good GM so far. He has added real players to the team that fit a vision and can play, mostly through trade which is pretty much what he has to work with given the team's state. The pupu platter trade for Brogdon was masterful. His draft picks have been good swings of the bat, especially from where he has selected, we will yet see if any of those swings connect.

As to the actual discussion at hand, he has done ok at free agency. Signed some useful players, signed some duds, his best signing got injured and never suited up. As to Roy's main grievance, the signing of g-league level talent over proven vets. Brad has taken lots of shots on the Broderick Tomases of the world (I actually like the search for diamonds in the ruff) but he has probably devoted too much roster space to this endeavor. So far he has a good hit with this strategy in Hauser but think he needs to hit another this year to be considered a successful strategy for a contender.

In summary, Brad's free agency strategy is different for a contending team and probably riskier. Mostly the jury is out. So far it hasn't seen a ton of success but he doesn't suck.

[Big333223]

His first summer was a lot of misses, the second summer includes Gallinari which was a signing everyone loved and you can't blame Brad for Gallo getting hurt and not playing, and then we don't know how this summer's signings will work out.

I'm really high on Brissett. I think he got squeezed out of the rotation in Indiana and will have a role here where he'll get to thrive.

[spikelovetheCelts]

We have no money or playing time to offer.  We have end-of-bench roster spots so we find end-of-bench guys to fill them.

I concede that it’s frustrating that the vet ring-chasers never seem interested in Boston.  Just Griffin, really.  Maybe players just don’t see us as a major title favorite like that… or maybe our city’s reputation among players really is that bad.  No idea.

We could have had Partrick Beverly at the minimum but he did not want to miss out so he signed with Philly. 
I think Blake played better than other posters have stated. Kornet is not a bum. Brisett will not embarrass himself.

[Vermont Green]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

July 9, 2022
Traded Malik Fitts, Juwan Morgan, Aaron Nesmith, Nik Stauskas, Daniel Theis and a 2023 1st round draft pick (Julian Strawther was later selected) to the Indiana Pacers for Malcolm Brogdon. conditional 2023 1st-rd pick was BOS own, Indiana also receives a trade exception

This one caught my eye.  The pu pu platter scrubs all were part of the trade that got us Brogdon.  That same day, we signed Hauser, Kornet, and Davison.  Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

I'm not sure you understand my point of view. I think Brad has been a really good GM so far. He has added real players to the team that fit a vision and can play, mostly through trade which is pretty much what he has to work with given the team's state. The pupu platter trade for Brogdon was masterful. His draft picks have been good swings of the bat, especially from where he has selected, we will yet see if any of those swings connect.

As to the actual discussion at hand, he has done ok at free agency. Signed some useful players, signed some duds, his best signing got injured and never suited up. As to Roy's main grievance, the signing of g-league level talent over proven vets. Brad has taken lots of shots on the Broderick Tomases of the world (I actually like the search for diamonds in the ruff) but he has probably devoted too much roster space to this endeavor. So far he has a good hit with this strategy in Hauser but think he needs to hit another this year to be considered a successful strategy for a contender.

In summary, Brad's free agency strategy is different for a contending team and probably riskier. Mostly the jury is out. So far it hasn't seen a ton of success but he doesn't suck.

That is all fair.  Stevens does seem to favor the prospects over the old vets when filling the the last few roster spots.  It is a fair debate.  What I disagree with is when people extrapolate this and say things like this approach means the owners don't care about winning.  That apparently is not what you are suggesting so that is not directed at you.

The one "old vet" that was signed and did work out pretty well is Griffin.  There were cries for Cousins, Howard, Whiteside, Favors, probably some others.  All of which went on to do a big fat nothing.  And we don't know if they even wanted to play in Boston.

This year, so far, we have signed Brissett and Danton plus carried over Champagnie and Kornet.  Not sure who this season's old vets are that we could be signing.  I see Brissett as a pretty solid FA signing.  He is young enough to have some ceiling but also established enough to not be just a prospect.  Kornet kind if is what he is.  Being durable and reliably mediocre is his claim to fame.   He is a useful enough vet big to be the 13th to 15th guy.  Is there a better vet out there?  Maybe, I don't know.

This year's "prospects" are Banton and Champagnie, and to some extent Walsh.  It is unlikely that Champagnie survives the whole season.  Kornet may not either.  Banton is guaranteed for 2 seasons so has a deal similar to Hauser.  We'll see if he works out as well as Hauser.  But even if he doesn't, how bad is a 50% hit rate for this kind of signing?

[Surferdad]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

July 9, 2022
Traded Malik Fitts, Juwan Morgan, Aaron Nesmith, Nik Stauskas, Daniel Theis and a 2023 1st round draft pick (Julian Strawther was later selected) to the Indiana Pacers for Malcolm Brogdon. conditional 2023 1st-rd pick was BOS own, Indiana also receives a trade exception

This one caught my eye.  The pu pu platter scrubs all were part of the trade that got us Brogdon.  That same day, we signed Hauser, Kornet, and Davison.  Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

I'm not sure you understand my point of view. I think Brad has been a really good GM so far. He has added real players to the team that fit a vision and can play, mostly through trade which is pretty much what he has to work with given the team's state. The pupu platter trade for Brogdon was masterful. His draft picks have been good swings of the bat, especially from where he has selected, we will yet see if any of those swings connect.

As to the actual discussion at hand, he has done ok at free agency. Signed some useful players, signed some duds, his best signing got injured and never suited up. As to Roy's main grievance, the signing of g-league level talent over proven vets. Brad has taken lots of shots on the Broderick Tomases of the world (I actually like the search for diamonds in the ruff) but he has probably devoted too much roster space to this endeavor. So far he has a good hit with this strategy in Hauser but think he needs to hit another this year to be considered a successful strategy for a contender.

In summary, Brad's free agency strategy is different for a contending team and probably riskier. Mostly the jury is out. So far it hasn't seen a ton of success but he doesn't suck.

That is all fair.  Stevens does seem to favor the prospects over the old vets when filling the the last few roster spots.  It is a fair debate.  What I disagree with is when people extrapolate this and say things like this approach means the owners don't care about winning.  That apparently is not what you are suggesting so that is not directed at you.

The one "old vet" that was signed and did work out pretty well is Griffin. There were cries for Cousins, Howard, Whiteside, Favors, probably some others.  All of which went on to do a big fat nothing.  And we don't know if they even wanted to play in Boston.

This year, so far, we have signed Brissett and Danton plus carried over Champagnie and Kornet.  Not sure who this season's old vets are that we could be signing. I see Brissett as a pretty solid FA signing.  He is young enough to have some ceiling but also established enough to not be just a prospect.  Kornet kind if is what he is.  He is a useful enough vet big to be the 13th to 15th guy.  Is there a better vet out there?  Maybe, I don't know.

This year's "prospects" are Banton and Champagnie, and to some extent Walsh.  It is unlikely that Champagnie survives the whole season.  Kornet may not either.  Banton is guaranteed for 2 seasons so has a deal similar to Hauser.  We'll see if he works out as well as Hauser.  But even if he doesn't, how bad is a 50% hit rate for this kind of signing?

You answered the question: I would re-sign Blake, as I've said a few times on other threads.

[Vermont Green]

You answered the question: I would re-sign Blake, as I've said a few times on other threads.

But are you sure he even wants to come back?  And in what role, taking the 15th and last remaining roster spot or to waive Kornet and replace him with Griffin?

I would have no issue if they sign Griffin in either case, but there is always an opportunity cost with any action.  At this point, I suspect Griffin is not coming back though.

[Roy H.]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

July 9, 2022
Traded Malik Fitts, Juwan Morgan, Aaron Nesmith, Nik Stauskas, Daniel Theis and a 2023 1st round draft pick (Julian Strawther was later selected) to the Indiana Pacers for Malcolm Brogdon. conditional 2023 1st-rd pick was BOS own, Indiana also receives a trade exception

This one caught my eye.  The pu pu platter scrubs all were part of the trade that got us Brogdon.  That same day, we signed Hauser, Kornet, and Davison.  Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

I'm not sure you understand my point of view. I think Brad has been a really good GM so far. He has added real players to the team that fit a vision and can play, mostly through trade which is pretty much what he has to work with given the team's state. The pupu platter trade for Brogdon was masterful. His draft picks have been good swings of the bat, especially from where he has selected, we will yet see if any of those swings connect.

As to the actual discussion at hand, he has done ok at free agency. Signed some useful players, signed some duds, his best signing got injured and never suited up. As to Roy's main grievance, the signing of g-league level talent over proven vets. Brad has taken lots of shots on the Broderick Tomases of the world (I actually like the search for diamonds in the ruff) but he has probably devoted too much roster space to this endeavor. So far he has a good hit with this strategy in Hauser but think he needs to hit another this year to be considered a successful strategy for a contender.

In summary, Brad's free agency strategy is different for a contending team and probably riskier. Mostly the jury is out. So far it hasn't seen a ton of success but he doesn't suck.

That is all fair.  Stevens does seem to favor the prospects over the old vets when filling the the last few roster spots.  It is a fair debate.  What I disagree with is when people extrapolate this and say things like this approach means the owners don't care about winning.  That apparently is not what you are suggesting so that is not directed at you.

The one "old vet" that was signed and did work out pretty well is Griffin.  There were cries for Cousins, Howard, Whiteside, Favors, probably some others.  All of which went on to do a big fat nothing.  And we don't know if they even wanted to play in Boston.

This year, so far, we have signed Brissett and Danton plus carried over Champagnie and Kornet.  Not sure who this season's old vets are that we could be signing.  I see Brissett as a pretty solid FA signing.  He is young enough to have some ceiling but also established enough to not be just a prospect.  Kornet kind if is what he is.  He is a useful enough vet big to be the 13th to 15th guy.  Is there a better vet out there?  Maybe, I don't know.

This year's "prospects" are Banton and Champagnie, and to some extent Walsh.  It is unlikely that Champagnie survives the whole season.  Kornet may not either.  Banton is guaranteed for 2 seasons so has a deal similar to Hauser.  We'll see if he works out as well as Hauser.  But even if he doesn't, how bad is a 50% hit rate for this kind of signing?

How are you arriving at a 50% hit rate?  To me, guys like Vonleh and Jackson go in that category, as well, and we literally had to pay teams to take them off our hands.

[celts55]

I would have to say yes, he sucks, but I don’t know his financial limitations. I would love to see him sign one guy that I feel confident can be a rotational player.

[liam]

Man, Obi Toppin would've been a good fit for us.

[green_bballers13]

Since Brad took over Danny's job, he has had the albatrosses of Tatum and Brown's future contracts in mind. Those supermax contracts will represent something like 70% of the future cap? I guess I would probably look to make trades over signing expensive FA players as well. Brad has made a couple significant trades to this point.

Is the criticism that he hasn't signed good players on minimum deals since Jun 2, 2021? Sure, he hasn't done that. I guess to some that might means he sucks at FA. I don't feel that way.