Does Brad suck at free agency?

[Roy H.]

His hands are tied, I see us adding around the peripheral edges of the team.  We won't and don't cash to splurge on big free agents.  I think this is more about finance than anything.

It's not, though, because there are a bunch of useful guys taking the minimum.

They have to choose to come here.

They have to be offered a deal first.  Otherwise, it's odd that Danny Ainge could always attract free agents to Boston, but Brad can only sign dumpster dives who are fringe NBA players.

If free agents don't want to come here all of a sudden, then Brad needs to change his pitch.  But, I think it's just that he chooses to pursue docile crap players.  Heck, Danny Green reported that last year he wanted to sign in Boston, and Brad ghosted him.

And, I don't buy that Boston is a uniquely deep team, when we're likely to lose Grant Williams.  We couldn't get Torey Craig to sign here over Chicago to fill that potential void?

Was that the wrong move?

Compared to signing Champagnie?  Yes.

What he really should have done is used our injured player exception for Gallo or one of the TPEs and brought in the best player available.  Instead, we got somebody of substance.

[Roy H.]

It did not help us when Bobby Manning and Joe Sway came out with their Marcus report right before free agency stating the C's never called Marcus and he thought he was safe.  This happened right before or during free agency and I realized that they were tying to break a story but people hear this stuff and are affected by it.   Now Gallo is saying he was surprised and people already thought we did IT wrong.  I am afraid this stuff coupled with the racist past reputation  haunts us during free agency.

Now, I know. we had the first Afro-American player and head coach but do  modern players....

You never hear people talking about Atlanta's history in the civil war when it comes to players but our past is always brought it.  I know it is more recent but the  Abolition Movement had it origins in New England.

I also think Brad is paralyzed his need for good character guys who fit out culture over good players if that makes sense.

Regarding the first paragraph, I know that people have focused on it, but do other franchises get the same criticism?  I do think Brad should have called Marcus instead of his agent -- that's just a little classless -- but regarding being traded, etc., do other organizations do it differently?  I think all of them treat players like commodities.  Hopefully they treat them like human beings, as well, but being sent to another city on a whim is part of the business.

I think you're right on in the last paragraph.  I wonder if Brad was like that as a recruiter, too.  He wants guys who will accept a role, and part of his belief structure seems to be not having internal competition for playing time.

[smicker16]

It did not help us when Bobby Manning and Joe Sway came out with their Marcus report right before free agency stating the C's never called Marcus and he thought he was safe.  This happened right before or during free agency and I realized that they were tying to break a story but people hear this stuff and are affected by it.   Now Gallo is saying he was surprised and people already thought we did IT wrong.  I am afraid this stuff coupled with the racist past reputation  haunts us during free agency.

Now, I know. we had the first Afro-American player and head coach but do  modern players....

You never hear people talking about Atlanta's history in the civil war when it comes to players but our past is always brought it.  I know it is more recent but the  Abolition Movement had it origins in New England.

I also think Brad is paralyzed his need for good character guys who fit out culture over good players if that makes sense.

Regarding the first paragraph, I know that people have focused on it, but do other franchises get the same criticism?  I do think Brad should have called Marcus instead of his agent -- that's just a little classless -- but regarding being traded, etc., do other organizations do it differently?  I think all of them treat players like commodities.  Hopefully they treat them like human beings, as well, but being sent to another city on a whim is part of the business.

I think you're right on in the last paragraph.  I wonder if Brad was like that as a recruiter, too.  He wants guys who will accept a role, and part of his belief structure seems to be not having internal competition for playing time.

If the Smart stuff was true that is not a great look although who knows if it generally goes through agents for that always.

The last part I am not super sure on as I do not think KP is a perfect character guy by any stretch of the imagination.  Especially compared to someone like Smart.  I still think for whatever reason, Brad or the team overall is unable to entice vets to come here.  The Lillard situation is another example of it although who knows if we are even interested, but it seems even Tatum tried to recruit him here and still could not.  Are we not involving Tatum/Brown as much as we should?  Are they not good at it?  Is it all Brad who is not good at recruiting them?  Those seem to be the bigger issues really. 

[mobilija]

JRich Choosing elsewhere....Beverly choosing elsewhere for less....hmmm, maybe Brad doesn't suck at free agency?

Must be something else....maybe players don't wanna play for fans that suck at being supportive and level headed?

What fanbase has universally supportive and level-headed fans?

And, have those fans changed a lot since Danny was here?  He seemed to attract a lot of vet free agents, for the minimum or otherwise.

Universally!?!?! Geez that's a high bar....but my sons YMCA 3rd and 4th grade league had a really supportive parental fan base, so I'd say them. But seriously, Boston fans aren't far behind Philly fans for being negative , calling players trash and saying they suck. I mean every fan base kinda has a stereo type, Lakers fans delusional, Miami fans front runners, etc. Its possible players don't wanna play for certain fan bases, i don't really know. But I do know that this thread title is fairly boorish and maybe looking in the mirror every now and again isn't a bad thing.

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

[RJ87]

JRich Choosing elsewhere....Beverly choosing elsewhere for less....hmmm, maybe Brad doesn't suck at free agency?

Must be something else....maybe players don't wanna play for fans that suck at being supportive and level headed?

What fanbase has universally supportive and level-headed fans?

And, have those fans changed a lot since Danny was here?  He seemed to attract a lot of vet free agents, for the minimum or otherwise.

Universally!?!?! Geez that's a high bar....but my sons YMCA 3rd and 4th grade league had a really supportive parental fan base, so I'd say them. But seriously, Boston fans aren't far behind Philly fans for being negative , calling players trash and saying they suck. I mean every fan base kinda has a stereo type, Lakers fans delusional, Miami fans front runners, etc. Its possible players don't wanna play for certain fan bases, i don't really know. But I do know that this thread title is fairly boorish and maybe looking in the mirror every now and again isn't a bad thing.

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

And towards the end of the Ainge era, our bench was filled by guys like Tristan Thompson, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeyleye, Carson Edwards, and Jabari Parker.

The way some recall, Danny had the blueprint for magical free agency signings.

[Vermont Green]

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

Other than Vonleh, what is wrong with Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser, Gallinari, Kornet, and Griffin?  Other than Gallinari, these were all pretty cheap money deals.  I think Stevens has been doing fine in aggregate.  He was voted 5th best in the Executive of the year voting for 2022-23.  6th in 2021-22.  It seems the local fans are much tougher on Brad then his fellow executives.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the FA aspect of building a team.  The Celtics have drafted their core, pulled off some great trades (Horford, Brogdon, and Porzingis), and are using FA just to fill in around the edges.  Whether or not we sign Dwight Howard or Pat Beverley really is just not that important but it seems to be what everyone focuses on.  People are bemoaning that we didn't sign players that wouldn't even get off the bench in the playoffs, and probably not that much during the regular season.

I kind of get that it is frustrating at times that we don't get every player we as fans want but I don't get the overall criticism of the team and their decisions.

[Roy H.]

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

Other than Vonleh, what is wrong with Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser, Gallinari, Kornet, and Griffin?  Other than Gallinari, these were all pretty cheap money deals.  I think Stevens has been doing fine in aggregate.  He was voted 5th best in the Executive of the year voting for 2022-23.  6th in 2021-22.  It seems the local fans are much tougher on Brad then his fellow executives.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the FA aspect of building a team.  The Celtics have drafted their core, pulled off some great trades (Horford, Brogdon, and Porzingis), and are using FA just to fill in around the edges.  Whether or not we sign Dwight Howard or Pat Beverley really is just not that important but it seems to be what everyone focuses on.  People are bemoaning that we didn't sign players that wouldn't even get off the bench in the playoffs, and probably not that much during the regular season.

I kind of get that it is frustrating at times that we don't get every player we as fans want but I don't get the overall criticism of the team and their decisions.

Well, you left out the "pupu platter of scrubs".  Jackson, Champagnie, Fitts, Morgan, Stauskas, etc.

[Celtics2021]

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

Other than Vonleh, what is wrong with Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser, Gallinari, Kornet, and Griffin?  Other than Gallinari, these were all pretty cheap money deals.  I think Stevens has been doing fine in aggregate.  He was voted 5th best in the Executive of the year voting for 2022-23.  6th in 2021-22.  It seems the local fans are much tougher on Brad then his fellow executives.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the FA aspect of building a team.  The Celtics have drafted their core, pulled off some great trades (Horford, Brogdon, and Porzingis), and are using FA just to fill in around the edges.  Whether or not we sign Dwight Howard or Pat Beverley really is just not that important but it seems to be what everyone focuses on.  People are bemoaning that we didn't sign players that wouldn't even get off the bench in the playoffs, and probably not that much during the regular season.

I kind of get that it is frustrating at times that we don't get every player we as fans want but I don't get the overall criticism of the team and their decisions.

Well, you left out the "pupu platter of scrubs".  Jackson, Champagnie, Fitts, Morgan, Stauskas, etc.

Fitts, Morgan, and Stauskas don’t count.  They were post-deadline signees in a year where there were virtually no buyouts after the C’s dropped their roster from 15 to 10 on deadline deals.  There’s zero way Brad wasn’t getting a bunch of scrubs that time.  We were moping about not getting De’Andre Bembry, who played the same number of games as Fitts and Stauskas last year.

[Vermont Green]

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

Other than Vonleh, what is wrong with Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser, Gallinari, Kornet, and Griffin?  Other than Gallinari, these were all pretty cheap money deals.  I think Stevens has been doing fine in aggregate.  He was voted 5th best in the Executive of the year voting for 2022-23.  6th in 2021-22.  It seems the local fans are much tougher on Brad then his fellow executives.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the FA aspect of building a team.  The Celtics have drafted their core, pulled off some great trades (Horford, Brogdon, and Porzingis), and are using FA just to fill in around the edges.  Whether or not we sign Dwight Howard or Pat Beverley really is just not that important but it seems to be what everyone focuses on.  People are bemoaning that we didn't sign players that wouldn't even get off the bench in the playoffs, and probably not that much during the regular season.

I kind of get that it is frustrating at times that we don't get every player we as fans want but I don't get the overall criticism of the team and their decisions.

Well, you left out the "pupu platter of scrubs".  Jackson, Champagnie, Fitts, Morgan, Stauskas, etc.

So is that the main complaint?  That "scrubs" signed to fill in the last 2 or 3 roster spots don't always work out?  I can't defend those guys, they are scrubs, no doubt, they actually failed to be even scrubs.  I remember there were complaints about Ainge.  I can't remember exactly but it was something like Ainge can't draft in the middle of the first round!  Look at all his bad picks!  Young, Langford, Nesmith!  I feel like this is what is is with Stevens.  He does everything great but he sucks at picking scrubs for the last 2 or 3 roster spots.  Players where nothing more is expected of them beyond being practice bodies.  He tends to shy away from the aging vets like Dwight Howard and prefers to take chances on more of prospects, and most of those don't work out.

So far this year, the "scrub" FA signing is Banton.  Brissett has a little higher expectation in my mind.  Champagnie is a scrub too, he is a carry over but he could be easily cut and replaced if they want to.  Very much prospect types rather than over the hill vet types.  I guess that is just what people will find to complain about.  Champagnie is horrible, useless, why is he on the roster.  The expectation seems to be that the 12-15 guys are good enough to step in to replace Brogdon or RWill if they get hurt.  It is hard to argue that Champagnie is a scrub, we shall see how good of a scrub, but I just don't think it is all that important in the big scheme of things.

[mobilija]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

[celticsclay]

JRich Choosing elsewhere....Beverly choosing elsewhere for less....hmmm, maybe Brad doesn't suck at free agency?

Must be something else....maybe players don't wanna play for fans that suck at being supportive and level headed?

What fanbase has universally supportive and level-headed fans?

And, have those fans changed a lot since Danny was here?  He seemed to attract a lot of vet free agents, for the minimum or otherwise.

Universally!?!?! Geez that's a high bar....but my sons YMCA 3rd and 4th grade league had a really supportive parental fan base, so I'd say them. But seriously, Boston fans aren't far behind Philly fans for being negative , calling players trash and saying they suck. I mean every fan base kinda has a stereo type, Lakers fans delusional, Miami fans front runners, etc. Its possible players don't wanna play for certain fan bases, i don't really know. But I do know that this thread title is fairly boorish and maybe looking in the mirror every now and again isn't a bad thing.

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

And towards the end of the Ainge era, our bench was filled by guys like Tristan Thompson, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeyleye, Carson Edwards, and Jabari Parker.

The way some recall, Danny had the blueprint for magical free agency signings.

I admit I liked Schroeder and kanter at the time (and both were good value). I guess if we land Beverly and Richardson this off-season this thread doesn’t exist, but I do think roy has a fair point that brad seems to generally have a little bit of a fear of vets compared to some other teams.

[RJ87]

JRich Choosing elsewhere....Beverly choosing elsewhere for less....hmmm, maybe Brad doesn't suck at free agency?

Must be something else....maybe players don't wanna play for fans that suck at being supportive and level headed?

What fanbase has universally supportive and level-headed fans?

And, have those fans changed a lot since Danny was here?  He seemed to attract a lot of vet free agents, for the minimum or otherwise.

Universally!?!?! Geez that's a high bar....but my sons YMCA 3rd and 4th grade league had a really supportive parental fan base, so I'd say them. But seriously, Boston fans aren't far behind Philly fans for being negative , calling players trash and saying they suck. I mean every fan base kinda has a stereo type, Lakers fans delusional, Miami fans front runners, etc. Its possible players don't wanna play for certain fan bases, i don't really know. But I do know that this thread title is fairly boorish and maybe looking in the mirror every now and again isn't a bad thing.

As to comparing Brad to Danny....3 years vs 18 years is tuff to make a judgment on. Not really fair. Let's look at their 1st 3years
Ainge: 2003 Mike James. 2004 Barros, Googs, and Gary Payton mid season 2005 Scal, Will Bynum. Some useful players and a player that inexplicably turned into an icon.
Stevens: 2021 Kanter, Schroeder, Hauser 2022 Gallo, Vonleh, Kornet, Griffin and a pupu platter of scrubs and tryout guys that came and left and came left. 2023 Brisset, Banton and...hopefully more, haha.
Some useful players. But lots of swings of the bat, which I like.
I like Ainges first 3 years better so far but not by a ton, does that mean Stevens sucks?

And towards the end of the Ainge era, our bench was filled by guys like Tristan Thompson, Brad Wanamaker, Semi Ojeyleye, Carson Edwards, and Jabari Parker.

The way some recall, Danny had the blueprint for magical free agency signings.

I admit I liked Schroeder and kanter at the time (and both were good value). I guess if we land Beverly and Richardson this off-season this thread doesn’t exist, but I do think roy has a fair point that brad seems to generally have a little bit of a fear of vets compared to some other teams.

Schroeder was a Brad signing.

[Vermont Green]

The pupu platter carousel was extensive

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023_transactions.html

Also go back and look at year before Ainge ariived, 2002

July 9, 2022
Traded Malik Fitts, Juwan Morgan, Aaron Nesmith, Nik Stauskas, Daniel Theis and a 2023 1st round draft pick (Julian Strawther was later selected) to the Indiana Pacers for Malcolm Brogdon. conditional 2023 1st-rd pick was BOS own, Indiana also receives a trade exception

This one caught my eye.  The pu pu platter scrubs all were part of the trade that got us Brogdon.  That same day, we signed Hauser, Kornet, and Davison.  Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

[Roy H.]

Not a bad day for such a bad GM.

[gouki88]

I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here:

Our top 7 are pretty much set in some order: White/Brown/JT/KP/Rob/Al/Brogdon... We're not offering guys a ton of money and a 7th/8th man role at best. It's just not as attractive as some of y'all think it is.

A guy like JRich took a minimum, but he's going to start in Miami and it's where he started his career. Eric Gordon is going to be the 1st guard off the bench in Phoenix.

Without a clearly defined role, we don't have the $ to be interesting. To date, one player has signed for the non-taxpayer MLE this offseason: Reggie Jackson in Denver. A lot of guys have been able to get slightly more because teams can divvy up the TPMLE.

Are guys taking the vet minimum generally asking for more than the 8th spot in the rotation, though? 

Other teams are bound by the same constrictions we are, but they're filling the latter part of their rotation with solid-to-good players, and we aren't.

Beverley and Richardson could both potentially start if the likely trades of Harden & Herro respectively go through.