Report: Lillard requests trade

[celticsclay]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

It's a bit different, no? Kawhi and Anthony Davis had upcoming contract expirations if I remember correctly, so them not wanting to play in certain places had more dramatic scare value. I don't see that with Lillard. Does a team really think that if they trade for him, Lillard is going to pout for three years and waste away the last bit of his prime? Especially if he's on a contending team? That just seems like a preposterous concern to me -- it's not Lillard's vibe and it wouldn't make any sense for him to do that. With Portland he has some leverage because of his historical credibility with the team and city. With a new team...they'd just tell him he's out of luck and he can either show up or waste his career away. He's going to play and be fine.

It’s unusual for teams to trade for a player publicly saying they don’t want to be there. It can get pretty ugly. I mean we had a pretty great example of this with Ben Simmons just a few years ago. He didn’t want to play for the 76ers any more and still had 3.5 years in his contract or something like that. The 76ers didn’t force him to play even though that would have been the best for them at the time (they got nothing out of his roster spot for 35 games or whatever before the trade deadline.

[celticsclay]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

[Who]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

We know that Minnesota won't offer Towns.
We know that Boston won't offer Jaylen.

We know that Philly won't offer Maxey.

We do not know everything but we do know some things.

[Celtics2021]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

We know that Minnesota won't offer Towns.
We know that Boston won't offer Jaylen.

We know that Philly won't offer Maxey.

We do not know everything but we do know some things.

We don't know any of that.  We only know that when any of the aformentioned players sign an extension that prevents them from being traded.  Towns can't sign one.  Brown and Maxey are both eligible, but neither have signed one.  GMs say they aren't trading someone until they do.  Smart says he was told a week before he was traded that he was safe.  If teams lie to their players, they certainly lie to us.

[celticsclay]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

We know that Minnesota won't offer Towns.
We know that Boston won't offer Jaylen.

We know that Philly won't offer Maxey.

We do not know everything but we do know some things.

We don't know any of that.  We only know that when any of the aformentioned players sign an extension that prevents them from being traded.  Towns can't sign one.  Brown and Maxey are both eligible, but neither have signed one.  GMs say they aren't trading someone until they do.  Smart says he was told a week before he was traded that he was safe.  If teams lie to their players, they certainly lie to us.

Exactly. This is literally nonsense speculation to fit some narrative that Lilliard doesn’t have a big trade value. There was a single loose report the 76ers won’t trade maxey but even then we don’t know if that is only because Lilliard would be unhappy in Philly and they already have one unhappy player to deal with currently

If we are going to speculate we may as well speculate we would trade brown for him given we have not signed a contract with brown that would make him ineligible for a trade

[jpotter33]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

That’s only because Dame has screwed them over and is essentially extorting them to trade to a team that simply doesn’t have the assets to get him, but May now because he’s depressing the market. That’s why people are mad. He’s being a selfish hypocrite and trying to have his cake and eat it, too.

Ole Softy Silver needs to step in. This has gone far beyond what any other star has done, and it’s setting an awful precedent that is terrible for the league.

At least Dame’s legacy and reputation are starting to be affected, but I’m not sure how other owners aren’t revolting at this right now.

How do we square this with Woj's assertion that this is "a time-honored agent maneuver to depress offers and clear a path to a predetermined destination"?

Because it’s never been used before to guide a trade to a *single* team, especially one that simply doesn’t have the assets to attain him.

If Lillard was open to playing anywhere or even just gave two to three other teams, they likely would’ve had a single conversation with Miami and moved in due to their lack of assets. The entire plot by Lillard is because they know Miami doesn’t have the assets to get him, unless he tanks the market by threatening not to play. That’s blatant extortion.

[jpotter33]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

We know that Minnesota won't offer Towns.
We know that Boston won't offer Jaylen.

We know that Philly won't offer Maxey.

We do not know everything but we do know some things.

We don't know any of that.  We only know that when any of the aformentioned players sign an extension that prevents them from being traded.  Towns can't sign one.  Brown and Maxey are both eligible, but neither have signed one.  GMs say they aren't trading someone until they do.  Smart says he was told a week before he was traded that he was safe.  If teams lie to their players, they certainly lie to us.

Exactly. This is literally nonsense speculation to fit some narrative that Lilliard doesn’t have a big trade value. There was a single loose report the 76ers won’t trade maxey but even then we don’t know if that is only because Lilliard would be unhappy in Philly and they already have one unhappy player to deal with currently

If we are going to speculate we may as well speculate we would trade brown for him given we have not signed a contract with brown that would make him ineligible for a trade

And the prevailing opinion is that Maxey would absolutely be on the block for Lillard and that these reports are all just ways to maximize his value.

Especially with Harden very likely to leave, does anyone REALLY think Philly wouldn’t trade Maxey for Lillard? What’s likely holding it back is the very thing we’re talking about - Lillard’s threats.

[gouki88]

The reputational damage of this whole saga has been pretty incredible. Went from one of the more universally well-regarded superstars to a petulant child within weeks

[celticsclay]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

That’s only because Dame has screwed them over and is essentially extorting them to trade to a team that simply doesn’t have the assets to get him, but May now because he’s depressing the market. That’s why people are mad. He’s being a selfish hypocrite and trying to have his cake and eat it, too.

Ole Softy Silver needs to step in. This has gone far beyond what any other star has done, and it’s setting an awful precedent that is terrible for the league.

At least Dame’s legacy and reputation are starting to be affected, but I’m not sure how other owners aren’t revolting at this right now.

How do we square this with Woj's assertion that this is "a time-honored agent maneuver to depress offers and clear a path to a predetermined destination"?

Because it’s never been used before to guide a trade to a *single* team, especially one that simply doesn’t have the assets to attain him.

If Lillard was open to playing anywhere or even just gave two to three other teams, they likely would’ve had a single conversation with Miami and moved in due to their lack of assets. The entire plot by Lillard is because they know Miami doesn’t have the assets to get him, unless he tanks the market by threatening not to play. That’s blatant extortion.

Yeah if Lilliard had given a few teams this wouldn’t be as bad. Heck even Durant did that with the nets. That’s fairly common. A list of one team is pretty ridiculous

[celticsclay]

The reputational damage of this whole saga has been pretty incredible. Went from one of the more universally well-regarded superstars to a petulant child within weeks

Agreed Gouki I’m pretty surprised he transitioned to a one team list from what he has been for 11 years (loyal to a fault)

[Neurotic Guy]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

Okay, so say the value of the player is 10/10.

Miami's offer is 5/10.

Even if the player tanks his value and the team can no longer get 10/10, they should still be able to get solid offers at 6/10 or 7/10 but they are not materializing.

I mean Lillard is available even cheaper than he would be normally if his value is indeed surpressed which I am not sure about give his age, size and contract.

None of these teams are coming out making offers. They should be asking for permission to talk to Damian Lillard. To sound him out and see where everything stands. Have a basic offer on the table for POR to show they are serious but are only willing the trade after talking to Lillard. No signs of anyone doing this.

You don't walk away from a great deal just because of preferences and posturing. You pursue it to its furthest point before deciding to give up.

These teams aren't doing that. They are giving up before the chase has even started.

We literally have zero idea what any other team has offered (and again we only know Miami because they are so limited with salary slots there is basically one possible trade) so just seems like a ton of speculation from you.

We know that Minnesota won't offer Towns.
We know that Boston won't offer Jaylen.

We know that Philly won't offer Maxey.

We do not know everything but we do know some things.

We don't know any of that.  We only know that when any of the aformentioned players sign an extension that prevents them from being traded.  Towns can't sign one.  Brown and Maxey are both eligible, but neither have signed one.  GMs say they aren't trading someone until they do.  Smart says he was told a week before he was traded that he was safe.  If teams lie to their players, they certainly lie to us.

Exactly. This is literally nonsense speculation to fit some narrative that Lilliard doesn’t have a big trade value. There was a single loose report the 76ers won’t trade maxey but even then we don’t know if that is only because Lilliard would be unhappy in Philly and they already have one unhappy player to deal with currently

If we are going to speculate we may as well speculate we would trade brown for him given we have not signed a contract with brown that would make him ineligible for a trade

And the prevailing opinion is that Maxey would absolutely be on the block for Lillard and that these reports are all just ways to maximize his value.

Especially with Harden very likely to leave, does anyone REALLY think Philly wouldn’t trade Maxey for Lillard? What’s likely holding it back is the very thing we’re talking about - Lillard’s threats.

It’s great for the Heat to portray the idea that the Herro trade is market value when the rest of the market is suppressed due to Lillard/agent lobbying that he’ll be unhappy anywhere else.

There’d be an entirely different narrative on the possibility of JB for DL if Damian and his agent were advocating for Boston as a landing spot.

[Kernewek]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

That’s only because Dame has screwed them over and is essentially extorting them to trade to a team that simply doesn’t have the assets to get him, but May now because he’s depressing the market. That’s why people are mad. He’s being a selfish hypocrite and trying to have his cake and eat it, too.

Ole Softy Silver needs to step in. This has gone far beyond what any other star has done, and it’s setting an awful precedent that is terrible for the league.

At least Dame’s legacy and reputation are starting to be affected, but I’m not sure how other owners aren’t revolting at this right now.

How do we square this with Woj's assertion that this is "a time-honored agent maneuver to depress offers and clear a path to a predetermined destination"?

Because it’s never been used before to guide a trade to a *single* team, especially one that simply doesn’t have the assets to attain him.

If Lillard was open to playing anywhere or even just gave two to three other teams, they likely would’ve had a single conversation with Miami and moved in due to their lack of assets. The entire plot by Lillard is because they know Miami doesn’t have the assets to get him, unless he tanks the market by threatening not to play. That’s blatant extortion.

I put it to you that these kinds of player-and-agent-driven conversations happen all the time, and that the real difference is that most of the time they're not leaked by members of other front offices regarding someone who doesn't have a particularly close arrangement with Woj.  That might not be very important to you, though.

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

It's a bit different, no? Kawhi and Anthony Davis had upcoming contract expirations if I remember correctly, so them not wanting to play in certain places had more dramatic scare value. I don't see that with Lillard. Does a team really think that if they trade for him, Lillard is going to pout for three years and waste away the last bit of his prime? Especially if he's on a contending team? That just seems like a preposterous concern to me -- it's not Lillard's vibe and it wouldn't make any sense for him to do that. With Portland he has some leverage because of his historical credibility with the team and city. With a new team...they'd just tell him he's out of luck and he can either show up or waste his career away. He's going to play and be fine.

It’s unusual for teams to trade for a player publicly saying they don’t want to be there. It can get pretty ugly. I mean we had a pretty great example of this with Ben Simmons just a few years ago. He didn’t want to play for the 76ers any more and still had 3.5 years in his contract or something like that. The 76ers didn’t force him to play even though that would have been the best for them at the time (they got nothing out of his roster spot for 35 games or whatever before the trade deadline.

I think you and Who are hitting on two different things here, right? To use the existing example, even though he was an expiring contract (and therefore a different scary scenario for the team trading for him), let's not forget that "league sources told ESPN that Kawhi Leonard had no desire to play in Toronto."

Something tells me the Raptors think that worked out pretty well for them anyway. Players suit up for teams they'd rather not to all the time - it's the nature of the NBA.

And on that note, I am positive that, Ja Morant's gun to his head, there are 3-4 teams Lillard would be fine playing for, and 30 teams that Lillard would suit up to play for. In the short term, though, Miami is the player-and-agent favourite, and for whatever reason (read: the front offices from teams that are not Miami are whining about it) this part of the conversation is what's being made public.

[Neurotic Guy]

If Lillard's agent is calling teams to warn against trading for him, as a way to force his way to Miami, can the commissioner step in and fine Lillard and his agent? Better yet, could the commissioner veto a trade of Lillard to Miami because of what is essentially is becoming collusion?

It is clearly collusion or in violation of the CBA. If the commish doesn't step in, it sets a bad precedent for the league.

I agree. I’m not generally pro owner but this is nonsense. You signed the super max Dame can’t force your franchise into a horrible deal after that

Isn’t this the main method Lakers get who ever they want ..players forcing their way to LA and open door with no scruples

This narrative for the lakers getting all these players is pretty weird to me. In the last 15 years pretty much every big name free agent has chosen to sign with other teams outside of Lebron and they had tons of guys they wanted. The trades for stars were not like amazing deals for them either. They gave up a ton to get Davis (they are often criticized for giving up way too much). The Westbrook trade was obviously a bad trade for them. If the heat were giving up lonzo ball (not injured) Brandon Ingram, Josh hart a number 4 overall pick and multiple other first rounders and swaps people would be a lot less upset.

Yeah, that bugs me too.

LAL couldn't get any of the FAs they wanted in the post Shaq years. They wanted Amare. They wanted Yao Ming. I forget who else. They wanted guys in trades. They wanted KG. They came up empty time and time again.

When Kobe's career was ending, they went after max free agents year after year. Again, coming up empty every time. Aldridge was one of them. They couldn't even get L Aldridge.

LeBron is the only major FA to go there in 25 years. And he only went there because they had enough trade assets to get a 2nd superstar alongside him from years of tanking.

Here is a summary of just some of the bad years before Lebron https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/lebron-james-lakers-free-agency-news-rumors-roster-contract-magic-johnson/c03vqu3myif51cjzvlith9d1x

They wanted George and Leonard and Lowry. They also badly wanted Dwight Howard to stay and he signed elsewhere. This could change at some point but the idea the lakers have got a ton of free agents in the last 15 years is kind of crazy. We have actually done way better during this time period getting highly sought after free agents like hayward, Horford and Kemba.

Everything hasn’t gone the Lakers way in the last 15 years. How about LBJ and Davis though?  Please name the teams that would be unhappy to have LBJ and Anthony Davis work their way onto their roster.  As I said previously - in the 13 years after the last dynastic run for LAL, they’ve won 1 championship and were in one additional Finals.  I think only 4 teams have actually done better than that in the last 13 years.  And that’s AFTER their last dynasty ended.

[celticsclay]

If Lillard's agent is calling teams to warn against trading for him, as a way to force his way to Miami, can the commissioner step in and fine Lillard and his agent? Better yet, could the commissioner veto a trade of Lillard to Miami because of what is essentially is becoming collusion?

It is clearly collusion or in violation of the CBA. If the commish doesn't step in, it sets a bad precedent for the league.

I agree. I’m not generally pro owner but this is nonsense. You signed the super max Dame can’t force your franchise into a horrible deal after that

Isn’t this the main method Lakers get who ever they want ..players forcing their way to LA and open door with no scruples

This narrative for the lakers getting all these players is pretty weird to me. In the last 15 years pretty much every big name free agent has chosen to sign with other teams outside of Lebron and they had tons of guys they wanted. The trades for stars were not like amazing deals for them either. They gave up a ton to get Davis (they are often criticized for giving up way too much). The Westbrook trade was obviously a bad trade for them. If the heat were giving up lonzo ball (not injured) Brandon Ingram, Josh hart a number 4 overall pick and multiple other first rounders and swaps people would be a lot less upset.

Yeah, that bugs me too.

LAL couldn't get any of the FAs they wanted in the post Shaq years. They wanted Amare. They wanted Yao Ming. I forget who else. They wanted guys in trades. They wanted KG. They came up empty time and time again.

When Kobe's career was ending, they went after max free agents year after year. Again, coming up empty every time. Aldridge was one of them. They couldn't even get L Aldridge.

LeBron is the only major FA to go there in 25 years. And he only went there because they had enough trade assets to get a 2nd superstar alongside him from years of tanking.

Here is a summary of just some of the bad years before Lebron https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/lebron-james-lakers-free-agency-news-rumors-roster-contract-magic-johnson/c03vqu3myif51cjzvlith9d1x

They wanted George and Leonard and Lowry. They also badly wanted Dwight Howard to stay and he signed elsewhere. This could change at some point but the idea the lakers have got a ton of free agents in the last 15 years is kind of crazy. We have actually done way better during this time period getting highly sought after free agents like hayward, Horford and Kemba.

Everything hasn’t gone the Lakers way in the last 15 years. How about LBJ and Davis though?  Please name the teams that would be unhappy to have LBJ and Anthony Davis work their way onto their roster.  As I said previously - in the 13 years after the last dynastic run for LAL, they’ve won 1 championship and were in one additional Finals.  I think only 4 teams have actually done better than that in the last 13 years.  And that’s AFTER their last dynasty ended.

What was the additional finals? They only made (and won) 1 finals after their dynasty with Kobe ended. The last finals outside the bubble was in 2010. Also they gave up like 4 years of tanking assets to get Davis including lonzo, ball and the number 4 overall pick. I don’t think we would be happy as fans if we had given up brown and Tatum for Davis. (Obviously balls injury makes the trade less of a fair comparison. Again they have done pretty mediocre in free agency outside of Lebron (if not flat out awful with guys like deng, mosgov signed to use their large cap space). The argument the lakers have been a big free agent destination the last 15 years just isn’t born in reality and they haven’t had much success by their standards during the same period. If they don’t win the one bubble championship they are in far an away the worst period in their modern franchise history. People just seem to ignore this all.

[jpotter33]

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

That’s only because Dame has screwed them over and is essentially extorting them to trade to a team that simply doesn’t have the assets to get him, but May now because he’s depressing the market. That’s why people are mad. He’s being a selfish hypocrite and trying to have his cake and eat it, too.

Ole Softy Silver needs to step in. This has gone far beyond what any other star has done, and it’s setting an awful precedent that is terrible for the league.

At least Dame’s legacy and reputation are starting to be affected, but I’m not sure how other owners aren’t revolting at this right now.

How do we square this with Woj's assertion that this is "a time-honored agent maneuver to depress offers and clear a path to a predetermined destination"?

Because it’s never been used before to guide a trade to a *single* team, especially one that simply doesn’t have the assets to attain him.

If Lillard was open to playing anywhere or even just gave two to three other teams, they likely would’ve had a single conversation with Miami and moved in due to their lack of assets. The entire plot by Lillard is because they know Miami doesn’t have the assets to get him, unless he tanks the market by threatening not to play. That’s blatant extortion.

I put it to you that these kinds of player-and-agent-driven conversations happen all the time, and that the real difference is that most of the time they're not leaked by members of other front offices regarding someone who doesn't have a particularly close arrangement with Woj.  That might not be very important to you, though.

I find it strange how against the Miami offer people are when no other team is offering anything that different / better than what Miami are.

Miami have made a good offer. It is not a great offer. But it is a good offer that allows Portland to rebuild properly. To move on from Dame. To pick up some future assets. To get a good player in Herro and maybe C Martin as well.

1) we don’t actually know any of these offers besides Miami (and we only know that because they have such limited assets it is the only possible package
2) other teams are not gonna make their best offer when he is threatening to be disgruntled and or sit out training camp (that is kind of the whole point of what we are all upset about)

Even if not willing to give their best offer, they still have to outbid Miami which even that they are seemingly unwilling to do.

It does not speak well to how highly teams value Lillard due to his advanced age (33yo) and huge contract.

I just do not believe there is much of a market there. Period. Not because of Miami but because Lillard is old (33yo), small (6-2) and has a huge contract ($50-60mil a year next 3yrs).

What you are saying doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense to me. Why would a team want to beat Miami’s offer if they are worrying about a holdout disgruntled player? We literally have a very recent example of this in our own team history. We were extremely interested in Anthony Davis and were prepared to offer very significant pieces to get him. Once his dad said he wouldn’t be happy here along with Davis and his agents we no longer wanted to make an offer. You seem to be totally ignoring the concept of someone tanking their own trade value by saying they will only be happy playing for one team

It's a bit different, no? Kawhi and Anthony Davis had upcoming contract expirations if I remember correctly, so them not wanting to play in certain places had more dramatic scare value. I don't see that with Lillard. Does a team really think that if they trade for him, Lillard is going to pout for three years and waste away the last bit of his prime? Especially if he's on a contending team? That just seems like a preposterous concern to me -- it's not Lillard's vibe and it wouldn't make any sense for him to do that. With Portland he has some leverage because of his historical credibility with the team and city. With a new team...they'd just tell him he's out of luck and he can either show up or waste his career away. He's going to play and be fine.

It’s unusual for teams to trade for a player publicly saying they don’t want to be there. It can get pretty ugly. I mean we had a pretty great example of this with Ben Simmons just a few years ago. He didn’t want to play for the 76ers any more and still had 3.5 years in his contract or something like that. The 76ers didn’t force him to play even though that would have been the best for them at the time (they got nothing out of his roster spot for 35 games or whatever before the trade deadline.

I think you and Who are hitting on two different things here, right? To use the existing example, even though he was an expiring contract (and therefore a different scary scenario for the team trading for him), let's not forget that "league sources told ESPN that Kawhi Leonard had no desire to play in Toronto."

Something tells me the Raptors think that worked out pretty well for them anyway. Players suit up for teams they'd rather not to all the time - it's the nature of the NBA.

And on that note, I am positive that, Ja Morant's gun to his head, there are 3-4 teams Lillard would be fine playing for, and 30 teams that Lillard would suit up to play for. In the short term, though, Miami is the player-and-agent favourite, and for whatever reason (read: the front offices from teams that are not Miami are whining about it) this part of the conversation is what's being made public.

Uh, Dame’s agent is literally saying this to the press himself. He’s basically went on a press tour this week saying Dame only will play for the Heat and leaked the “not reporting” stuff to their clear mouthpieces in Haynes, Shams, and others.

Not sure where you’re getting this “other front office” idea when it’s coming directly from the horse’s (agent’s) mouth or through their camp’s known media mouthpiece.