Author Topic: NBA Off-Season News  (Read 123372 times)

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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #435 on: September 05, 2023, 02:11:49 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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It is really hard to compare players from different eras.  I am old enough that I got to see Magic play and I am really clear about what he was as a player.  I think Magic is clearly better than Curry, but that is just my opinion.  It is subjective.  One tangible thing is the had check rule.  If people could be more physical with Curry, that would make a difference.  Teams tried everything against Magic, and couldn't stop him.

One thing that is interesting to me is that Curry wasn't even always the best player on his team.  Durant was better for those few seasons.  Curry is the best shooter ever, and he did lead his team to a title twice as the best player (although not finals MVP in both cases).  The CLE year was helped considerably by injuries to Kyrie and Love, and he wasn't the finals MVP.  I asterisk that one.  Then he beat the Celtics of course, a team that probably wasn't quite ready for that big stage.  But you have to give that one to Curry.  He was the best player on the championship team.  He was the difference.
I've never agreed that Durant was the better player on those teams. Go back and watch how opposition defences played Golden State during those years - Curry was the clear focal point of their efforts

Durant was the finals MVP both of those title years.  I know that is not the end all but it definitely adds credibility to the Durant was the best player on those GSW teams position.  It was definitely a 1A and 1B but in either case, I don't think Durant or Curry is better than Magic, so to some extent, it doesn't matter to the core discussion around the statement by Curry that he feels he is the best PG ever, better than Magic.

I know that I probably have Magic higher than most, I am surprised that others don't have Magic higher, but the comments make this clear.  I have Magic in the discussion with Jordan and James as the best ever, ahead of Bird.  Absolutely the best PG ever.

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #436 on: September 05, 2023, 02:21:00 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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It is really hard to compare players from different eras.  I am old enough that I got to see Magic play and I am really clear about what he was as a player.  I think Magic is clearly better than Curry, but that is just my opinion.  It is subjective.  One tangible thing is the had check rule.  If people could be more physical with Curry, that would make a difference.  Teams tried everything against Magic, and couldn't stop him.

One thing that is interesting to me is that Curry wasn't even always the best player on his team.  Durant was better for those few seasons.  Curry is the best shooter ever, and he did lead his team to a title twice as the best player (although not finals MVP in both cases).  The CLE year was helped considerably by injuries to Kyrie and Love, and he wasn't the finals MVP.  I asterisk that one.  Then he beat the Celtics of course, a team that probably wasn't quite ready for that big stage.  But you have to give that one to Curry.  He was the best player on the championship team.  He was the difference.
I've never agreed that Durant was the better player on those teams. Go back and watch how opposition defences played Golden State during those years - Curry was the clear focal point of their efforts

Durant was the finals MVP both of those title years.  I know that is not the end all but it definitely adds credibility to the Durant was the best player on those GSW teams position.  It was definitely a 1A and 1B but in either case, I don't think Durant or Curry is better than Magic, so to some extent, it doesn't matter to the core discussion around the statement by Curry that he feels he is the best PG ever, better than Magic.

I know that I probably have Magic higher than most, I am surprised that others don't have Magic higher, but the comments make this clear.  I have Magic in the discussion with Jordan and James as the best ever, ahead of Bird.  Absolutely the best PG ever.

I'd put Durant as their best player.  If I'm remembering correctly, Durant also took the defensive assignment on Lebron.

Quote
I know that I probably have Magic higher than most

I don't think you do, at least in terms of best PG ever.  Maybe in this thread, but I think if you asked most fans who watched both play who was better, the results would weigh heavily in favor of Magic.

Now, having Magic in the same conversation with Michael may be harder to justify.  Michael has him head to head, has more titles, more MVPs, and was a much better defender.


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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #437 on: September 05, 2023, 07:05:20 PM »

Offline gouki88

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It is really hard to compare players from different eras.  I am old enough that I got to see Magic play and I am really clear about what he was as a player.  I think Magic is clearly better than Curry, but that is just my opinion.  It is subjective.  One tangible thing is the had check rule.  If people could be more physical with Curry, that would make a difference.  Teams tried everything against Magic, and couldn't stop him.

One thing that is interesting to me is that Curry wasn't even always the best player on his team.  Durant was better for those few seasons.  Curry is the best shooter ever, and he did lead his team to a title twice as the best player (although not finals MVP in both cases).  The CLE year was helped considerably by injuries to Kyrie and Love, and he wasn't the finals MVP.  I asterisk that one.  Then he beat the Celtics of course, a team that probably wasn't quite ready for that big stage.  But you have to give that one to Curry.  He was the best player on the championship team.  He was the difference.
I've never agreed that Durant was the better player on those teams. Go back and watch how opposition defences played Golden State during those years - Curry was the clear focal point of their efforts

Durant was the finals MVP both of those title years.  I know that is not the end all but it definitely adds credibility to the Durant was the best player on those GSW teams position.  It was definitely a 1A and 1B but in either case, I don't think Durant or Curry is better than Magic, so to some extent, it doesn't matter to the core discussion around the statement by Curry that he feels he is the best PG ever, better than Magic.

I know that I probably have Magic higher than most, I am surprised that others don't have Magic higher, but the comments make this clear.  I have Magic in the discussion with Jordan and James as the best ever, ahead of Bird.  Absolutely the best PG ever.
I think Durant winning FMVPs was a result of him being the secondary focus of the opposition
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #438 on: September 05, 2023, 07:44:16 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I wonder why it matters so much to some to be considered the best ever at something?  Seems like something that a secure, evolved person wouldn’t spend a lot of time thinking or caring about. I guess I answered my own question.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2023, 09:38:10 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #439 on: September 05, 2023, 10:06:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It is really hard to compare players from different eras.  I am old enough that I got to see Magic play and I am really clear about what he was as a player.  I think Magic is clearly better than Curry, but that is just my opinion.  It is subjective.  One tangible thing is the had check rule.  If people could be more physical with Curry, that would make a difference.  Teams tried everything against Magic, and couldn't stop him.

One thing that is interesting to me is that Curry wasn't even always the best player on his team.  Durant was better for those few seasons.  Curry is the best shooter ever, and he did lead his team to a title twice as the best player (although not finals MVP in both cases).  The CLE year was helped considerably by injuries to Kyrie and Love, and he wasn't the finals MVP.  I asterisk that one.  Then he beat the Celtics of course, a team that probably wasn't quite ready for that big stage.  But you have to give that one to Curry.  He was the best player on the championship team.  He was the difference.
I've never agreed that Durant was the better player on those teams. Go back and watch how opposition defences played Golden State during those years - Curry was the clear focal point of their efforts

Durant was the finals MVP both of those title years.  I know that is not the end all but it definitely adds credibility to the Durant was the best player on those GSW teams position.  It was definitely a 1A and 1B but in either case, I don't think Durant or Curry is better than Magic, so to some extent, it doesn't matter to the core discussion around the statement by Curry that he feels he is the best PG ever, better than Magic.

I know that I probably have Magic higher than most, I am surprised that others don't have Magic higher, but the comments make this clear.  I have Magic in the discussion with Jordan and James as the best ever, ahead of Bird.  Absolutely the best PG ever.
I think Durant winning FMVPs was a result of him being the secondary focus of the opposition
Curry was easily the most important player even on those teams, though I do think Durant was probably a better player. 

The 1st year, Durant missed 20 games, they were 51-11 with him and 16-4 without him.  They were 65-14 with Curry (3-1 without him).  Curry's on/off differential per 100 possessions was an obscene +17.2, Durant was at a very good +8.7, while Draymond was actually 2nd on the team at +11.2.  The next year, Curry missed 31 games, they were 41-10 with him and 17-14 without him.  Curry's on/off differential per 100 was +12.1.  That 2nd year, Durant missed 14 games, the Warriors were 49-19 with him and 9-5 without him.  Durant's differential was only +1.9.  In 2019, they had all the injuries in the playoffs, but they were still a 57 win team in the regular season.  Durant played 78 games, the Warriors went  3-1 without him.  Curry played in just 69 games, they went 5-8 without him.  They both had really elite on/off differentials, but Curry was still better at 16.2 vs. 16.1. 

The 3 years in the playoffs:

Curry - 20.6, 3.8, 12.1
Durant - 6.0, 10.7, 8.2

So in their 3 seasons together, Curry was the main driver of their success both in the regular season and 2 of the 3 playoff runs. That team does not work without Curry.  It doesn't matter if they have Barnes or Durant, Bogut or Looney, as long as they had Curry, they were fine.  He played 5 games in 2020, then coming bac from injury the next year they were 37-26 in his 63 games and 2-7 in the 9 games he missed.  Then they won 53 games and the title (45-19 with Steph, 8-10 without him).

Curry may not have been better than Durant, but he was certainly their most important player.  Durant missed games and they were fine as long as they had Curry, but Curry missed games and they fell off significantly. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #440 on: September 05, 2023, 10:58:58 PM »

Offline MattyIce

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #441 on: September 05, 2023, 11:04:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear cut starting role.

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #442 on: September 05, 2023, 11:31:23 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear cut starting role.

I’m not even sure he has a clear cut reserve role.  I also won’t be surprised if the Lakers send cash or a second to clear him off the roster at the deadline.

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #443 on: September 06, 2023, 03:14:37 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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We could've used a Christian Woods for our frontcourt insurance.


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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #444 on: September 06, 2023, 04:50:15 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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We could've used a Christian Woods for our frontcourt insurance.

Yeah, pretty mad that we didn't get him. But he was probably promised a bigger role than we could offer.
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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #445 on: September 06, 2023, 05:32:10 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear-cut starting role.

I do think the silence around him this offseason has been a bit telling - wasn't he supposed to be on the cusp of a breakout pretty recently?
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #446 on: September 06, 2023, 05:41:51 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear-cut starting role.

I do think the silence around him this offseason has been a bit telling - wasn't he supposed to be on the cusp of a breakout pretty recently?
That was, like, 3 teams ago
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #447 on: September 06, 2023, 05:57:04 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear-cut starting role.

I do think the silence around him this offseason has been a bit telling - wasn't he supposed to be on the cusp of a breakout pretty recently?
That was, like, 3 teams ago
Well as a certified master of space and time I suppose I must reject your chronology and substitute my own. But didn't he have some great games for the Mavericks? Or was it with Houston.
"...unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it."

Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #448 on: September 06, 2023, 07:11:35 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear cut starting role.

I don't see any real risk. 


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Re: NBA Off-Season News
« Reply #449 on: September 06, 2023, 07:21:22 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Free agent F/C Christian Wood has agreed on a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell ESPN. Deal includes a player option

High risk high reward signing. Kind of says a lot he couldn’t land a bigger deal or even a clear-cut starting role.

I do think the silence around him this offseason has been a bit telling - wasn't he supposed to be on the cusp of a breakout pretty recently?
That was, like, 3 teams ago
Well as a certified master of space and time I suppose I must reject your chronology and substitute my own. But didn't he have some great games for the Mavericks? Or was it with Houston.
My recollection was his cusp-of-breakout was in Detroit. Finished his final season there averaging 25/9/2 over 7 games as a starter, which led to him moving on to Houston.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)