NBA Off-Season News

[cman88]

Pierce had 3 3rd Teams and 1 2nd Team All NBA.  He had 5 seasons with MVP votes getting into the top 10 once (7 in 09). 

Wade had 2 1st Teams, 3 2nd Teams, and 3 3rd Teams All NBA plus 3 2nd Team All Defense.  He had 8 seasons with MVP votes, 7 of which were in the top 10 and 2 of those were top 5 with a 3rd place finish in 09 and 5th in 10 (which were not Lebron or Shaq seasons).

Sure Pierce probably would have had more titles had he had different teammates, but it doesn't mean he was better.  When they were on their "own" Wade showed he was better than Pierce.

Did he though? maybe he had better stats. but success wise without Shaq who was still a 20/10 machine and Lebron/Bosh he had no championships. he was a 1st round exit against the Celtics in 2010. It's not like he proved he could carry a team anymore than Pierce could if he didn't have other all-stars next to him.

Pierce's game isnt flashy or full of highlights which is why I think fans tend to under-rate him as a player. But he had a very solid all around game.

[Who]

Thoughts?

Pierce believes he was better than D-Wade

“Put Shaq on my team. Put LeBron and Bosh with me. I’m not gonna win one? You put me, LeBron and Bosh, we not gonna win one? We not gonna win a couple? Who's the better 3-point shooter? Is he a better scorer? OK, he averaged more points than me career. I can shoot the 3. I can mid-range. I can post up. I can get to the line. Who a better scorer?

“For a long time, my skills went unappreciated because I didn’t get to play with a lot of great players,” Pierce continued. “And then I got to play with KG and Ray [Allen] past their prime. Four years earlier, you put me, Ray, and KG together, you think we ain't walking away with three ‘ships?”


https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1682846900750278657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1682846900750278657%7Ctwgr%5E7b096d98f52f544d7de98b89e5f71dc29444420c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

Lot of truth there.

[Moranis]

Pierce had 3 3rd Teams and 1 2nd Team All NBA.  He had 5 seasons with MVP votes getting into the top 10 once (7 in 09). 

Wade had 2 1st Teams, 3 2nd Teams, and 3 3rd Teams All NBA plus 3 2nd Team All Defense.  He had 8 seasons with MVP votes, 7 of which were in the top 10 and 2 of those were top 5 with a 3rd place finish in 09 and 5th in 10 (which were not Lebron or Shaq seasons).

Sure Pierce probably would have had more titles had he had different teammates, but it doesn't mean he was better.  When they were on their "own" Wade showed he was better than Pierce.

Did he though? maybe he had better stats. but success wise without Shaq who was still a 20/10 machine and Lebron/Bosh he had no championships. he was a 1st round exit against the Celtics in 2010. It's not like he proved he could carry a team anymore than Pierce could if he didn't have other all-stars next to him.

Pierce's game isnt flashy or full of highlights which is why I think fans tend to under-rate him as a player. But he had a very solid all around game.

Wade had back to back top 5 MVP seasons.  He was 1st team all NBA and 2nd team defense both those years.  Pierce never did any of those things in any season of his career.

[gouki88]

Thoughts?

Pierce believes he was better than D-Wade

“Put Shaq on my team. Put LeBron and Bosh with me. I’m not gonna win one? You put me, LeBron and Bosh, we not gonna win one? We not gonna win a couple? Who's the better 3-point shooter? Is he a better scorer? OK, he averaged more points than me career. I can shoot the 3. I can mid-range. I can post up. I can get to the line. Who a better scorer?

“For a long time, my skills went unappreciated because I didn’t get to play with a lot of great players,” Pierce continued. “And then I got to play with KG and Ray [Allen] past their prime. Four years earlier, you put me, Ray, and KG together, you think we ain't walking away with three ‘ships?”


https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1682846900750278657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1682846900750278657%7Ctwgr%5E7b096d98f52f544d7de98b89e5f71dc29444420c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhoopshype.com%2Frumors%2F

I agree that Pierce is underappreciated, but a lot of that comes from people dismissing his clown takes. Wade at his prime was better though.

Nonetheless, if PP had teamed up with KG & Ray in, say, 2005, I think we're probably on 19 banners.

[Roy H.]

Dr. Jay snubbing Larry and Lebron:

Dr.J’s top 10 players of all time (no order)

Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Karl Malone
Tiny Archibald

[gouki88]

Dr. Jay snubbing Larry and Lebron:

Dr.J’s top 10 players of all time (no order)

Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Karl Malone
Tiny Archibald

Clearly the chokehold gave him amnesia. Has Dr J watched basketball since 1999?

[JSD]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

[Surferdad]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Are you trying to pick a fight?  Honestly, I don't agree with all the names of Dr J's list but it is a serious list. You also don't know when he created the list, could have been 25 years ago. EDIT: I just read 2 articles that quote Dr. J that he did not include active players.

[gouki88]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Karl Malone is more defensible than Tiny

[Surferdad]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Karl Malone is more defensible than Tiny

Yeah I agree, so I would replace Tiny with Kobe Bryant. That leaves Shaq and Duncan out of the top-10 but they are close, in the top-20.

[Roy H.]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Karl Malone is more defensible than Tiny

... but neither is defensible over Larry or Duncan.

If you made those two substitutions, with the caveat that it doesn't include active players, it's not bad.

Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Karl Malone Larry Bird
Tiny Archibald Tim Duncan

[Donoghus]

Old grudges never die. 

Don't know his issue with Lebron, though.  Anyone know that backstory?

[Moranis]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Karl Malone is more defensible than Tiny

... but neither is defensible over Larry or Duncan.

If you made those two substitutions, with the caveat that it doesn't include active players, it's not bad.

Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Karl Malone Larry Bird
Tiny Archibald Tim Duncan

West, Oscar, and Baylor over Hakeem and Shaq also seems odd to me.  Now maybe he wanted a bit more balance and not such a heavy center team, but still seems a bit odd as I think most people have Hakeem and Shaq firmly in the top 11 (without Lebron) and ahead of those 3.

[Donoghus]

At least he doesn't have Kobe in his top 10.

[Roy H.]

Nobody with Karl Malone in their top 10 should be taken seriously.

Karl Malone is more defensible than Tiny

... but neither is defensible over Larry or Duncan.

If you made those two substitutions, with the caveat that it doesn't include active players, it's not bad.

Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Karl Malone Larry Bird
Tiny Archibald Tim Duncan

West, Oscar, and Baylor over Hakeem and Shaq also seems odd to me.  Now maybe he wanted a bit more balance and not such a heavy center team, but still seems a bit odd as I think most people have Hakeem and Shaq firmly in the top 11 (without Lebron) and ahead of those 3.

The inclusion of those three is defensible, though.  West is probably underrated:  14x All-Star, 12x All-NBA, led the league in both scoring and assists (different seasons), 5x All-Defense.

Oscar:  career averages of 26 / 8 / 10; 11x All-NBA; MVP

Baylor is probably the least defensible, but still:  10x All-NBA, averaged 27 / 14 / 4 for his career

I wouldn't fight you on including Shaq and Hakeem, but I won't argue with Dr. J here, either.