NBA Finals conclusions from a C's perspective

[RodyTur10]

Nuggets are actually an argument for not "blowing up the core!" like many fans want. Denver kept with their core, learned to play together, went through the ups and downs of losing. basically they just added gordon

and finally broke through with an NBA championship. And Jocic is 28 which seems to be the magic age that players put it together fully...vs Tatums 25 and Browns 26.

Not quite. It isn't like we've missed Brown for multiple playoff runs. They also added Gordon and Bruce Brown, 2 of their top 6 in the rotation. I guess White and Brogdon could be that for us, but we need to desperately upgrade on Al

They could've easily said the murray/Jocic pairing isnt working because hes oft injured and went in a different direction..instead they doubled down on adding to that pairing. for years people said Jocic wasnt a worthy MVP because he couldn't carry his team to a finals...

it's really not much different than Boston deciding to stick with 25 year old and 26 year old all-NBA players rather than "blowing it up!"

Couple of points.

1) The people saying this stuff about Jokic were always morons. He is the best player in the world, and has at worst been the 2nd best at any stage over the last 3 seasons. That is a key point of difference between Denver's situation and ours.

2) Denver's entire core is young. Horford & Brogdon are older than any of their core besides Jeff Green. Sure, Tatum and potentially Brown have more room for improvement, but we are relying heavily on ageing players where Denver isn't.

3) For every Denver, there is a Toronto.

And 1 team has a big guy and a guard and a multiple MVP and the other has questions whether their 2 best players can even play together for years. Also The juxtaposition of brown and murrary is so striking.  1 guy has a game 4 where he has 12 assists and zero turnovers and the other dribbles it off his leg more times than I can count. Murray is so smooth. I’m jealous.

These hot take "what have you done for me lately" narratives are so funny to read. All year Brown was an all-nba player and multiple times all-star.

Murray has had questions all year and worse stats across the board. But now....according to Celtics fans he's better...

Murray was coming back from a long recovery of a serious injury. He obviously needed time to get back to his former level. And he has shown these playoffs he's probably better than Brown and it's not the first time that Murray has exploded during the playoffs.

[Dchuck]

I've always felt we had exceptional personnel on this team to win a 'chip and for it to be sustainable.

This finals has just confirmed how I already felt.  Our philosophy is extremely flawed.  SRJ admitted himself, offense was more important than defense (WRONG) and more three point attempts is the way to go (WRONG).

While I understand Jokic is a generational talent and the offense runs through him, it was evident they moved the ball, moved without the ball and took the best shot...EVEN IF IT WAS IN THE PAINT!  I kept thinking if that was us, we would have gotten an open look in the paint, only to kick it out for the three.  They showed how unselfish they are and how much they trust each other.  In addition, they also played tough defense and clamped down on Miami.  They made Caleb, Gabe, and Strus look like the undrafted players they are.

Hopefully the new coaching additions will bring some change, otherwise we'll continue to prioritize offense over defense and live and die by the three.

[theswitch]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

[obnoxiousmime]

Nuggets are actually an argument for not "blowing up the core!" like many fans want. Denver kept with their core, learned to play together, went through the ups and downs of losing. basically they just added gordon

and finally broke through with an NBA championship. And Jocic is 28 which seems to be the magic age that players put it together fully...vs Tatums 25 and Browns 26.

Not quite. It isn't like we've missed Brown for multiple playoff runs. They also added Gordon and Bruce Brown, 2 of their top 6 in the rotation. I guess White and Brogdon could be that for us, but we need to desperately upgrade on Al

They could've easily said the murray/Jocic pairing isnt working because hes oft injured and went in a different direction..instead they doubled down on adding to that pairing. for years people said Jocic wasnt a worthy MVP because he couldn't carry his team to a finals...

it's really not much different than Boston deciding to stick with 25 year old and 26 year old all-NBA players rather than "blowing it up!"

Couple of points.

1) The people saying this stuff about Jokic were always morons. He is the best player in the world, and has at worst been the 2nd best at any stage over the last 3 seasons. That is a key point of difference between Denver's situation and ours.

2) Denver's entire core is young. Horford & Brogdon are older than any of their core besides Jeff Green. Sure, Tatum and potentially Brown have more room for improvement, but we are relying heavily on ageing players where Denver isn't.

3) For every Denver, there is a Toronto.

And 1 team has a big guy and a guard and a multiple MVP and the other has questions whether their 2 best players can even play together for years. Also The juxtaposition of brown and murrary is so striking.  1 guy has a game 4 where he has 12 assists and zero turnovers and the other dribbles it off his leg more times than I can count. Murray is so smooth. I’m jealous.

These hot take "what have you done for me lately" narratives are so funny to read. All year Brown was an all-nba player and multiple times all-star.

Murray has had questions all year and worse stats across the board. But now....according to Celtics fans he's better...

Murray was coming back from a long recovery of a serious injury. He obviously needed time to get back to his former level. And he has shown these playoffs he's probably better than Brown and it's not the first time that Murray has exploded during the playoffs.

I figured Brown vs. Murray might come up in this thread. When we drafted Brown, we obviously didn't know Tatum was coming a year later. Murray would be a better fit because he's a good ballhandler, playmaker, and shooter. The Nuggets basically have two versatile offensive playmakers on the same team, with one being (Jokic) a truly unselfish superstar. We have half of a playmaker in Tatum and almost no playmaking from Brown. They both instinctively want to score the ball themselves, because that's what they're good at. I just don't think you can change a scorer's mindset at this point or suddenly develop great court vision. They want to score when the ball is in their hands, and that's why the offense becomes my turn, your turn.

But really, it's all about Jokic first and foremost. He's a walking mismatch and he makes everybody look better.

[obnoxiousmime]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

[Who]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

It was impressive to see Jokic control the paint defensively for Denver compared to our bigs Horford and/or Timelord who were unable to do likewise.

Jokic's sheer size was intimidating. Active arms. Active hands. Made Miami's drivers nervous.

[kraidstar]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

It was impressive to see Jokic control the paint defensively for Denver compared to our bigs Horford and/or Timelord who were unable to do likewise.

Jokic's sheer size was intimidating. Active arms. Active hands. Made Miami's drivers nervous.

I don't think Horford and Timelord's interior defense was the problem. They were great in games 4, 5, and 6.

It was more guys turning the ball over and then not getting in the right position on defense. We were running around like headless chickens. Pure panic. When we panic, everything breaks down, and we lose. Especially to a poised veteran Heat team.

I think most of our problems are between the ears.

[obnoxiousmime]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

It was impressive to see Jokic control the paint defensively for Denver compared to our bigs Horford and/or Timelord who were unable to do likewise.

Jokic's sheer size was intimidating. Active arms. Active hands. Made Miami's drivers nervous.

I don't think Horford and Timelord's interior defense was the problem. They were great in games 4, 5, and 6.

It was more guys turning the ball over and then not getting in the right position on defense. We were running around like headless chickens. Pure panic. When we panic, everything breaks down, and we lose. Especially to a poised veteran Heat team.

I think most of our problems are between the ears.

Yeah, the problem was more that Horford couldn't hold up as well when switching onto a good perimeter player. Not only that, but just being old and probably tired made him more erratic and sped up. Overall he just didn't seem as disciplined and mistake-free as he used to be. [EDIT] I'll also say that him playing drop a lot gave the opposing team lots of open shots. I don't know if this was a strategy thing or just him trying to conserve energy/protect himself against the blowby.

With Rob, you really need him to be dynamic defensively to make up for the mistakes he still makes. Things like biting on pump fakes, getting out of position when going for the block, being inconsistent in isolation, losing shooters on the perimeter, it's just all part of the Rob experience. His ability to recover with his athleticism and length kind of makes up for a lot of things, but the Heat were just really smart about attacking his flaws and avoiding his strengths. Also, let's be honest: his athleticism this year was more like 85-90% of peak Timelord. Still good, but not insane jump-out-of-the-gym levels.

[gouki88]

Nuggets are actually an argument for not "blowing up the core!" like many fans want. Denver kept with their core, learned to play together, went through the ups and downs of losing. basically they just added gordon

and finally broke through with an NBA championship. And Jocic is 28 which seems to be the magic age that players put it together fully...vs Tatums 25 and Browns 26.

Not quite. It isn't like we've missed Brown for multiple playoff runs. They also added Gordon and Bruce Brown, 2 of their top 6 in the rotation. I guess White and Brogdon could be that for us, but we need to desperately upgrade on Al

They could've easily said the murray/Jocic pairing isnt working because hes oft injured and went in a different direction..instead they doubled down on adding to that pairing. for years people said Jocic wasnt a worthy MVP because he couldn't carry his team to a finals...

it's really not much different than Boston deciding to stick with 25 year old and 26 year old all-NBA players rather than "blowing it up!"

Couple of points.

1) The people saying this stuff about Jokic were always morons. He is the best player in the world, and has at worst been the 2nd best at any stage over the last 3 seasons. That is a key point of difference between Denver's situation and ours.

2) Denver's entire core is young. Horford & Brogdon are older than any of their core besides Jeff Green. Sure, Tatum and potentially Brown have more room for improvement, but we are relying heavily on ageing players where Denver isn't.

3) For every Denver, there is a Toronto.

Huh? Besides Horford and Brogdon Celtics core is one of the youngest in the league. Smart, Tatum, brown, Williams, grant all drafted guys in their 20's still. this is a really really bad take. And Tatum is arguably top 5 in the league and is still 25. Let's not forget Jocic is 28

No one in the world would argue Celtics are built around an ageing core..

If you want to talk an old core that has questions look of Milwaukee with Middleton/holiday or sixers with harden.

Haha. “Besides 2 of the top 6 rotation, the core is young!”. The Williams’ are hardly reliable - one is always injured, the other does not play and might leave imminently. Smart and White are both 29 and likely have no improvement left.

Nobody said ageing core. Reading comprehension is important. Our reliance on ageing, declining players is pretty obviously an issue.

Jokic (not sure why you insist on disrespecting him by misspelling his name) is 28, but has no reliance on athleticism. Not really a likely candidate for declining soon.

Of Denver’s top 7 in the playoffs, only KCP is older than Smart & White. None older than Brogdon, none even close to Horford.

Not sure why you’re bringing up other Eastern teams that are worse than us.

You literally said Denver's entire core is young while Celtics is ageing. What do you consider a teams core? Besides Horford/brogdon everyone is either in their prime or about to enter it.

If I just agree that Denver is amazing and Celtics roster of majority players 29 and younger with your 2 stars 25 and 26 is poorly constructed. What is your solution?

I brought up other teams in the East because that is our competition. And they are all ageing their "core" is built of guys who are about to decline

My point still stands. Denver stuck with Murray and Jokic(I honestly didn't know how to spell it) and just added some players around them and finally broke through to a championship.

No, I "literally" did not. I said "we are relying heavily on ageing players where Denver isn't." That is what I literally said, and there is a significant difference between that and what you're inferring. If 3 out of Tatum, Brown, Smart, White, Brogdon, Horford and Williams III are ageing, injury-prone, or both, then I think it's fair to say that our core is less reliable than Denver's, who have managed to seemingly fix the body of MPJ.

[gouki88]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

It was impressive to see Jokic control the paint defensively for Denver compared to our bigs Horford and/or Timelord who were unable to do likewise.

Jokic's sheer size was intimidating. Active arms. Active hands. Made Miami's drivers nervous.

I thought his intentional kicking of the ball was quite ingenious. Yeah, it reset the shot-clock for Miami, but with Denver in the lead it prevented a lot of easy looks for them.

[Kernewek]

Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

You mean like Jimmy Butler?

[Who]

A lot of great points have been raised so I won't repeat them -- to me, this NBA Finals was also about "Guys Who Grind." So much has been made of the Miami undrafted group, but if you just look across the contributors:

Denver -- Murray seems like a hard worker, otherwise MPJ is the only real "pretty boy star" of the bunch. KCP is a hard-working, grind-it-out defender who has gotten so much better over time. Aaron Gordon grinds and has morphed himself into what he needs to be. Jokic -- 41st overall pick -- yes he's absurdly talented but he has transformed his body to be able to sustain this. Bruce Brown -- 42nd overall pick -- built on the grind. Braun was in the 20s and is there for his hustle and work ethic.

Miami -- Bam is the closest thing to a bona fide lottery pick star and he was #14. Grinds. Jimmy late first rounder, known for the grind. Vincent, Strus, Robinson, Martin...all have worked so hard. Lowry same thing.

I guess my point here is that we often fall so in love with pure talent and this NBA Finals to me was a refresh on how much success in this league can be driven by mindset. When you are picking a 20-year-old, you should of course incorporate talent into your evaluation as a priority but as long as the athleticism is there, so much of the player's success is going to be driven by mindset. Is he going to grind from the beginning relentlessly? Is he going to wait until he's 33 and having a mid-life crises of empty stats and no championships?

Defense is 90% mindset. Rebounding is 90% mindset. Turnovers are 90% mindset. Cutting without the ball is 90% mindset. So much of this can be taught...if the teacher is right and the student is ready for it. Otherwise it's salivating over talent that will never come to fruition.

I don't think this can be overstated - the Nuggets aren't known for being a defensive team but they won by playing hard on defense. Maybe MPJ was their only negative defender out there doing dumb stuff and wisely being taken out for Brown during crunch time.

The Celtics didn't play hard on defense until it was too late, or they just underestimated the Miami shooters for way too long. Or, maybe they were tired from the Sixers series which they foolishly allowed to go 7 while the Heat were resting. Yes, the Heat shot historically well, but where were the adjustments? Why did it take so long for them to realize Butler isn't nearly as effective if you don't bite on his pumpfakes? At some point he could barely elevate anymore and he was just another Lowry out there, passing up shots and trying to get foul calls.

It was impressive to see Jokic control the paint defensively for Denver compared to our bigs Horford and/or Timelord who were unable to do likewise.

Jokic's sheer size was intimidating. Active arms. Active hands. Made Miami's drivers nervous.

I don't think Horford and Timelord's interior defense was the problem. They were great in games 4, 5, and 6.

It was more guys turning the ball over and then not getting in the right position on defense. We were running around like headless chickens. Pure panic. When we panic, everything breaks down, and we lose. Especially to a poised veteran Heat team.

I think most of our problems are between the ears.

Yeah, the problem was more that Horford couldn't hold up as well when switching onto a good perimeter player. Not only that, but just being old and probably tired made him more erratic and sped up. Overall he just didn't seem as disciplined and mistake-free as he used to be. [EDIT] I'll also say that him playing drop a lot gave the opposing team lots of open shots. I don't know if this was a strategy thing or just him trying to conserve energy/protect himself against the blowby.

With Rob, you really need him to be dynamic defensively to make up for the mistakes he still makes. Things like biting on pump fakes, getting out of position when going for the block, being inconsistent in isolation, losing shooters on the perimeter, it's just all part of the Rob experience. His ability to recover with his athleticism and length kind of makes up for a lot of things, but the Heat were just really smart about attacking his flaws and avoiding his strengths. Also, let's be honest: his athleticism this year was more like 85-90% of peak Timelord. Still good, but not insane jump-out-of-the-gym levels.

Interesting that DEN used the same drop coverage with Jokic yet managed to defend the 3 point line much better.

DEN's guards more aggressive fighting through screens and chasing the ball handler while Jokic dropped deep and cut off the drive to the basket.

[Who]

I am not sure how to quantify the effectiveness of each team's drop coverage but these are some interesting stats for Miami:

Drives
vs BOS = 28.7ppg on 46.1% FG%
vs DEN = 18.4ppg on 38.2%

Pull up Js
vs BOS = 25.1ppg on 37.6%
vs DEN = 19.6ppg on 31.5%

Catch and shoot
vs BOS = 28.4ppg on 50%
vs DEN = 29.2ppg on 38%


Interesting the huge difference on drives. I believe Jokic's paint protection is a big reason for that.

Also a big difference in pull up jump shots & in catch and shoots. The catch and shoot figures are FG%. The difference was even greater in eFG%. It was on a previous page. I do not have the number but I believe it was around 75% for MIA against BOS. Only around 50-55% against DEN. MIA did most of their damage on catch and shoot 3s rather than pull up 3s which I would presume would include all 3s taken by a ball-handler against drop-coverage. Just unreal efficiency in catch and shoot 3s.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shooting-efficiency?TeamID=1610612748&OpponentTeamID=1610612738

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shooting-efficiency?TeamID=1610612748&OpponentTeamID=1610612743

[Celtics4ever]

Good to see Uncle Jeff get a ring

I think it took all the life out of Jimmy Butler taking him to a game seven

MIA shooting came back to earth.

Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird, in terms to skill,  I have ever seen.

[obnoxiousmime]

I am not sure how to quantify the effectiveness of each team's drop coverage but these are some interesting stats for Miami:

Drives
vs BOS = 28.7ppg on 46.1% FG%
vs DEN = 18.4ppg on 38.2%

Pull up Js
vs BOS = 25.1ppg on 37.6%
vs DEN = 19.6ppg on 31.5%

Catch and shoot
vs BOS = 28.4ppg on 50%
vs DEN = 29.2ppg on 38%


Interesting the huge difference on drives. I believe Jokic's paint protection is a big reason for that.

Also a big difference in pull up jump shots & in catch and shoots. The catch and shoot figures are FG%. The difference was even greater in eFG%. It was on a previous page. I do not have the number but I believe it was around 75% for MIA against BOS. Only around 50-55% against DEN. MIA did most of their damage on catch and shoot 3s rather than pull up 3s which I would presume would include all 3s taken by a ball-handler against drop-coverage. Just unreal efficiency in catch and shoot 3s.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shooting-efficiency?TeamID=1610612748&OpponentTeamID=1610612738

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shooting-efficiency?TeamID=1610612748&OpponentTeamID=1610612743

I'm sure the Heat were pretty exhausted from the Celtics series and playing three games in Denver with the thinner air certainly doesn't help. The one game they won was game 2 when they had time to adjust. Butler looking totally worn out by the end of the series probably didn't help either since he's the one creating a lot of those looks. The Nuggets' size advantage at most positions probably wore on Miami over the long run as well.

Obviously it's hard to entirely blame the Celtics for Miami shooting historically well, but I do think they let it snowball by mentally checking out every time some unheralded Heat role player made another improbable 3. To make it more frustrating, shooting 3s is what the Celtics supposedly do better. When they couldn't match it, they got down on themselves. How many times did we see Celtics defenders slump their shoulders or shake their head after a made Heat 3-pointer? I think to Denver's credit  they did not freak out when their own 3s didn't fall. They simply found ways to score inside and Jokic and Gordon being a much, much, much better frontcourt than ours obviously made that possible.

I've asked it a lot and I still don't really have an answer. When you absolutely need an easy bucket to stop a run or put the nail in the coffin in a close game, how are you getting it? The Nuggets just dump it off to Jokic and he'll back his man down slowly until he either gets a makeable shot or the double comes and they at least pass to somebody with an open look. Or, they'll just run a Murray/Jokic pick and roll. If our 3s aren't falling, what else do we have? What happened to all of Tatum's one-on-one moves?