Celtics Off-Season News

[boscel33]

Interesting article on Oshae:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/oshae-brissett-s-value-to-the-celtics-on-full-display-in-preseason/ar-AA1i3QMS?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=954e1c0b2b4f4fc28b17a247223a3d7c&ei=12

[No Nickname]

You’re way too high on Stevens relative to Hauser.  Hauser is absolutely above Stevens in the rotation.  It’s not even a given Stevens makes the team.  Hauser will be in the opening night rotation, that’s already been decided by the team based on his body of work last year.  They aren’t going to yank him out based on 3-4 preseason games.  Brissett probably will be in the rotation too — the rest of the guys will have to earn their time as the season goes along, assuming they make it to opening day.

I'd be surprised if Stevens didn't make the team, but otherwise I agree.  I don't quite understand why so many folks see Hauser as a question mark for the rotation.  He's an elite shooter who plays passable-to-solid defense.

I too would be surprised if Stevens didn’t make the team, but he’s only on a training camp contract so his spot certainly isn’t a given.  If the right player shakes loose from another team, I think Stevens would be out (but I don’t think such a player will become available).

I guess that I do see that the shine has worn off some from Hauser.  He was great at times last season but towards the end and then now this preseason, to me, he has regressed, possibly regressing to the mean.  Stevens just looks like more of a NBA athlete to me.  Yes, Hauser shoots better when he shoots better, Stevens does everything else better.  I am not entirely sold on either so wouldn't be all that surprised in any case but at this point, I see Stevens having an edge on getting rotation minutes once the season starts but in my view, neither is a lock.

So just as I say this, Hauser goes out and has a good game.  I only saw the first half and didn't see Stevens play at all but based on the box score, he didn't appear to have done much.  I base a lot of my player evaluation on what I see on the court.  I consider stats too, especially if I haven't seen a player all that much.

Hauser can shoot, no doubt about that, but it is hard to parse out his shooting in garbage time from his shooting in more critical game moments.  To me, he is on the fringe of a core rotation NBA player.  It is different for him from what I see when he is out there with the "big boys" vs. other less critical times.  Stevens may be on that same fringe but I just see a lot more athleticism and physicality with him.  Like Brissett, he is not a 3-point shooter though and these days, that is important.

I guess we will see how it all works out.  I am not saying there is a big separation between any of Brissett, Stevens, and Hauser.  Mykhailkiuk is now in that same mix also.  But right now, I would rank them as follows in terms of potential value to the team:

Brissett
Stevens
Hauser
Mykhailiuk

I don't think we need all 4 of them.  Even if we start the season with all 4, that may change along the way.  Stevens and Mykhailiuk are both "waiveable", Brissett and Hauser have guaranteed contracts, so that is a factor also.  And Mykhailiuk has looked really good, he is trending up.

I'm assuming you're replying to me, but you didn't quote my post with Hauser's stats.

I guess we can all play the "I judge by my eye" game, but when you say his stats might be improved by garbage time minutes you'd have to go judge what "garbage" really is, see if the other guys on the floor are playing actual defense, and determine if Hauser was just more confident in his stroke then because there was no victory/loss hanging in the balance.

All I know is, you can look at the April 25th 119-117 loss to the Hawks in the playoffs (no garbage time there) and see that Hauser went 3-5 (2-4 from three) with two rebounds, two assists, one block, and no turnovers in 14 minutes.

I'm just not seeing how his play dropped off late in the season, or that just his shooting stayed good because he played in garbage time.

There's a recency effect going on with fans who just see that he barely played against the Sixers and Heat in the last two series of the playoffs.  Again, that's not Sam's fault that his minutes were cut drastically.

[celticinorlando]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday. I just don't understand why the Celtics trade for legit point guards and relegate them to the bench.

I get Joe loves White but to me White is a better option off the bench than Holiday. I would bring Al off the bench and start Holiday and White together.

[Roy H.]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday.

People overthink this.  Start your best players, and stagger minutes from there. 

Also, when a team only has two NBA quality big men, it makes sense to not play them together as much as you'd traditionally expect.

[celticinorlando]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday.

People overthink this.  Start your best players, and stagger minutes from there.

Yep. Wouldn't it make more sense for Al to come off the bench with how bad Kornet is? PP looks like he can play decent minutes for Brogdan and White....

[Neurotic Guy]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday.

People overthink this.  Start your best players, and stagger minutes from there.

Yep. Wouldn't it make more sense for Al to come off the bench with how bad Kornet is? PP looks like he can play decent minutes for Brogdan and White....

Yes. I want White in the starting lineup. Just does so many good things.
Agree with Al off the bench. I haven’t hated Kornet this preseason as much as others here.

[Celtics2021]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday. I just don't understand why the Celtics trade for legit point guards and relegate them to the bench.

I get Joe loves White but to me White is a better option off the bench than Holiday. I would bring Al off the bench and start Holiday and White together.

Unless Holiday has some unknown injury and we want to limit his minutes, there is no way that Holiday should be coming off the bench.  It should be Horford.  Presumably he agreed to an extension in the $10 million a year range because he thought he was trending toward becoming a part-time player anyway.

[Goldstar88]

I don’t think the Celtics traded for Holiday to have him come off the bench. They gave up a lot for Jrue and are paying him $37M/year. He’s arguably the best defensive guard in the NBA and was an All-Star last season.

[celticinorlando]

I don’t think the Celtics traded for Holiday to have him come off the bench. They gave up a lot for Jrue and are paying him $37M/year. He’s arguably the best defensive guard in the NBA and was an All-Star last season.

This was my thinking also. I want to see Holiday and White starting together.

[Roy H.]

More on Lowe's remarks from Brian Robb:

“I don’t think this was a one-off,” Zach Lowe said Wednesday on his Lowe Post podcast. “I don’t think this was a let’s see how this looks. He may end up starting a ton of games. Injuries, nights off, matchups, just being so good that we have to start him. I think this has some legs potentially and the reason I think it has legs because they trotted it out in the first game. They didn’t play great but you could feel the spacing and the impact of a real quick trigger center with Kristaps Porzingis. I think they liked Tatum out, Holiday in with Jaylen Brown on the floor because like the Curry on the bench minutes in Golden State, Tatum on the bench has been a problem now for a lot of years.”

Lowe hints that the team is considering bringing Holiday off the bench to help address this issue with Tatum on the bench.

“I think they like the look and feel of having two All-Star perimeter ball handlers,” Lowe said of playing Brown and Holiday together while Tatum rests. “Neither of them a point guard by any means, one of them with sometimes the yips with the dribble, that’s Jaylen Brown. Both All-Star, All-NBA level players…let’s see if they can prop up the offense along with Porzingis and good spacing. They are going to close games with Jrue Holiday on the floor. I think (bringing him off the bench) has some legs.”

Whether Holiday is willing to sacrifice and embrace a reserve role remains to be seen. He addressed the alignment after his Celtics debut on Sunday without giving any hints on the matter.

“I think it’s just about time,” Holiday said. “Time on the court. Getting a chance to play with them and see what’s going to happen, see where I’m supposed to be and where I’m going to be getting the ball, and things like that. But real fun, glad I got to go out there and play.”

[RodyTur10]

Zach Lowe thinks the Celtics will bring Holiday off the bench.

I certainly hope not. Thought it was a mistake with Brogdon and its a bigger one with Holiday.

People overthink this.  Start your best players, and stagger minutes from there.

Yep. Wouldn't it make more sense for Al to come off the bench with how bad Kornet is? PP looks like he can play decent minutes for Brogdan and White....

Yes. I want White in the starting lineup. Just does so many good things.
Agree with Al off the bench. I haven’t hated Kornet this preseason as much as others here.

Last year we always played with one big under Mazzula (Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford).
With Brogdon, Hauser, G-Will and Timelord as the main rotation players.

We swapped Smart and Brogdon for Holiday + G-Will and Timelord for Porzingis.
Losing some depth and adding two All Stars, but the structure of the roster didn't change much.

It makes perfect sense to start: Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum and Porzingis.
With Pritchard, Hauser, Horford as main rotation players.

[Vermont Green]

You’re way too high on Stevens relative to Hauser.  Hauser is absolutely above Stevens in the rotation.  It’s not even a given Stevens makes the team.  Hauser will be in the opening night rotation, that’s already been decided by the team based on his body of work last year.  They aren’t going to yank him out based on 3-4 preseason games.  Brissett probably will be in the rotation too — the rest of the guys will have to earn their time as the season goes along, assuming they make it to opening day.

I'd be surprised if Stevens didn't make the team, but otherwise I agree.  I don't quite understand why so many folks see Hauser as a question mark for the rotation.  He's an elite shooter who plays passable-to-solid defense.

I too would be surprised if Stevens didn’t make the team, but he’s only on a training camp contract so his spot certainly isn’t a given.  If the right player shakes loose from another team, I think Stevens would be out (but I don’t think such a player will become available).

I guess that I do see that the shine has worn off some from Hauser.  He was great at times last season but towards the end and then now this preseason, to me, he has regressed, possibly regressing to the mean.  Stevens just looks like more of a NBA athlete to me.  Yes, Hauser shoots better when he shoots better, Stevens does everything else better.  I am not entirely sold on either so wouldn't be all that surprised in any case but at this point, I see Stevens having an edge on getting rotation minutes once the season starts but in my view, neither is a lock.

So just as I say this, Hauser goes out and has a good game.  I only saw the first half and didn't see Stevens play at all but based on the box score, he didn't appear to have done much.  I base a lot of my player evaluation on what I see on the court.  I consider stats too, especially if I haven't seen a player all that much.

Hauser can shoot, no doubt about that, but it is hard to parse out his shooting in garbage time from his shooting in more critical game moments.  To me, he is on the fringe of a core rotation NBA player.  It is different for him from what I see when he is out there with the "big boys" vs. other less critical times.  Stevens may be on that same fringe but I just see a lot more athleticism and physicality with him.  Like Brissett, he is not a 3-point shooter though and these days, that is important.

I guess we will see how it all works out.  I am not saying there is a big separation between any of Brissett, Stevens, and Hauser.  Mykhailkiuk is now in that same mix also.  But right now, I would rank them as follows in terms of potential value to the team:

Brissett
Stevens
Hauser
Mykhailiuk

I don't think we need all 4 of them.  Even if we start the season with all 4, that may change along the way.  Stevens and Mykhailiuk are both "waiveable", Brissett and Hauser have guaranteed contracts, so that is a factor also.  And Mykhailiuk has looked really good, he is trending up.

I'm assuming you're replying to me, but you didn't quote my post with Hauser's stats.

I guess we can all play the "I judge by my eye" game, but when you say his stats might be improved by garbage time minutes you'd have to go judge what "garbage" really is, see if the other guys on the floor are playing actual defense, and determine if Hauser was just more confident in his stroke then because there was no victory/loss hanging in the balance.

All I know is, you can look at the April 25th 119-117 loss to the Hawks in the playoffs (no garbage time there) and see that Hauser went 3-5 (2-4 from three) with two rebounds, two assists, one block, and no turnovers in 14 minutes.

I'm just not seeing how his play dropped off late in the season, or that just his shooting stayed good because he played in garbage time.

There's a recency effect going on with fans who just see that he barely played against the Sixers and Heat in the last two series of the playoffs.  Again, that's not Sam's fault that his minutes were cut drastically.

Not responding to anyone in particular as most everyone disagreed with me, which is fine, that is what forums are for.  Just for another example, take Evan Fournier.  In his 16 games with the Celtics, he shot 46% from 3.  But that was another case where what I saw on the court, just didn't seem to match the stats.  Many wanted to resign him (not me) and he went on to fail in NYK.

I have had plenty of misses along the way, just like everyone else, but I am not seeing it with Hauser.  He is young, he still likely has ceiling, but right now, I see a fringe rotation player.  The 3-point shooting certainly makes him intriguing, he will have his moments for sure, he can be a useful player, but I am not sure he can be relied on right now to be a regular core rotation player.

[Celtics2021]

More on Lowe's remarks from Brian Robb:

“I don’t think this was a one-off,” Zach Lowe said Wednesday on his Lowe Post podcast. “I don’t think this was a let’s see how this looks. He may end up starting a ton of games. Injuries, nights off, matchups, just being so good that we have to start him. I think this has some legs potentially and the reason I think it has legs because they trotted it out in the first game. They didn’t play great but you could feel the spacing and the impact of a real quick trigger center with Kristaps Porzingis. I think they liked Tatum out, Holiday in with Jaylen Brown on the floor because like the Curry on the bench minutes in Golden State, Tatum on the bench has been a problem now for a lot of years.”

Lowe hints that the team is considering bringing Holiday off the bench to help address this issue with Tatum on the bench.

“I think they like the look and feel of having two All-Star perimeter ball handlers,” Lowe said of playing Brown and Holiday together while Tatum rests. “Neither of them a point guard by any means, one of them with sometimes the yips with the dribble, that’s Jaylen Brown. Both All-Star, All-NBA level players…let’s see if they can prop up the offense along with Porzingis and good spacing. They are going to close games with Jrue Holiday on the floor. I think (bringing him off the bench) has some legs.”

Whether Holiday is willing to sacrifice and embrace a reserve role remains to be seen. He addressed the alignment after his Celtics debut on Sunday without giving any hints on the matter.

“I think it’s just about time,” Holiday said. “Time on the court. Getting a chance to play with them and see what’s going to happen, see where I’m supposed to be and where I’m going to be getting the ball, and things like that. But real fun, glad I got to go out there and play.”

I think he’s saying that just so we talk about him here.  White would come off the bench before Holiday would, which I would also find a mistake.

[celticinorlando]

I would rather have a big (Al) and a PG (PP) off the bench than just two PG's in PP and Holiday.

Holiday is too good to come off the bench. Would be a mistake.

[Celtics2021]

I would rather have a big (Al) and a PG (PP) off the bench than just two PG's in PP and Holiday.

Holiday is too good to come off the bench. Would be a mistake.

Yep, it’s a pretty easy 9-man rotation to set up.  Pritchard and Al as the 1 and 5, a shooting wing in Hauser and a defensive wing in Brissett, and then the myriad of other wings and Kornet for the deeper bench as matchups and game flow dictate.