Author Topic: Celtics Off-Season News  (Read 219679 times)

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Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #765 on: July 22, 2023, 02:58:51 PM »

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I’m wondering if someone could give a little clarification on Payton’s alleged “poor handles.”

I understand the criticism with JB, when he decides to split a double or go 1 on 3 and gets stripped, but Payton was supposed to be a good ball handler coming out of Oregon. I remember seeing it watching highlights after the draft. I remember in camp that year him showing off his dribbling skills. He was not Kyrie, but he looked to have good handles.

To be sure I wasn’t misremembering I looked at his draft profile and  his shooting, passing and ball handling were all above average. His size, speed and drawing fouls were listed as weaknesses.

A quote from NBAdraft:

Quote
Dynamic scorer both on the drive and from beyond the arc … Can create his own shot with above average ball-handling, a fluid shooting motion and limitless range

Another weakness was “sometimes careless with the ball.” I didn’t see Payton play much last year, and when I did I saw a few things he gets legitimately criticized for, like not getting to the rim and not probing the defense hard enough before passing. I didn’t see loose handles.

Rewatching some college highlights he often settles for a floater rather than going through contact to the rim. That seems like something that hasn’t changed? A weakness was not drawing enough fouls and that still seems to be the case. He was fine creating space using single and double cross over dribbles and dribbling through traffic while being double teamed. He just wasn’t forcing his way to the rim if there wasn’t a clear path and settled for floaters or passing the ball.

Is that what people are actually complaining about when they see/say “poor handles?” Sometimes careless with the ball and not continuing to the basket, because otherwise I’m not getting the criticism?

Yeah, this bolded part is what I am talking about. He is secure in his handles in basic ball-handling responsibilities such as bringing the ball upcourt and starting the offense but he provides little to no dribble penetration.

Not just not getting all the way to the rim but hardly ever even gettin to the paint. We talk about reluctant shooters; Pritchard is a reluctant driver / dribble penetrator. He shows little to no capacity to beat his man off the dribble and/or beat bigger slower defenders off the dribble in switches.

His handles are extremely limited. And this has a knock-down effect on his shot creation (almost entirely 20 feet out) and his playmaking (because he cannot collapse the defense).

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #766 on: July 22, 2023, 03:07:39 PM »

Offline liam

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I’m wondering if someone could give a little clarification on Payton’s alleged “poor handles.”

I understand the criticism with JB, when he decides to split a double or go 1 on 3 and gets stripped, but Payton was supposed to be a good ball handler coming out of Oregon. I remember seeing it watching highlights after the draft. I remember in camp that year him showing off his dribbling skills. He was not Kyrie, but he looked to have good handles.

To be sure I wasn’t misremembering I looked at his draft profile and  his shooting, passing and ball handling were all above average. His size, speed and drawing fouls were listed as weaknesses.

A quote from NBAdraft:

Quote
Dynamic scorer both on the drive and from beyond the arc … Can create his own shot with above average ball-handling, a fluid shooting motion and limitless range

Another weakness was “sometimes careless with the ball.” I didn’t see Payton play much last year, and when I did I saw a few things he gets legitimately criticized for, like not getting to the rim and not probing the defense hard enough before passing. I didn’t see loose handles.

Rewatching some college highlights he often settles for a floater rather than going through contact to the rim. That seems like something that hasn’t changed? A weakness was not drawing enough fouls and that still seems to be the case. He was fine creating space using single and double cross over dribbles and dribbling through traffic while being double teamed. He just wasn’t forcing his way to the rim if there wasn’t a clear path and settled for floaters or passing the ball.

Is that what people are actually complaining about when they see/say “poor handles?” Sometimes careless with the ball and not continuing to the basket, because otherwise I’m not getting the criticism?

Yeah, this bolded part is what I am talking about. He is secure in his handles in basic ball-handling responsibilities such as bringing the ball upcourt and starting the offense but he provides little to no dribble penetration.

Not just not getting all the way to the rim but hardly ever even gettin to the paint. We talk about reluctant shooters; Pritchard is a reluctant driver / dribble penetrator. He shows little to no capacity to beat his man off the dribble and/or beat bigger slower defenders off the dribble in switches.

His handles are extremely limited. And this has a knock-down effect on his shot creation (almost entirely 20 feet out) and his playmaking (because he cannot collapse the defense).

Pritchard needs to create contact on offense and defense. He's a small guard and refs seem to give little guys the benefit of the doubt. Taking charges would also help him defensively. He needs some wiley vet moves. .
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 03:42:11 PM by liam »

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #767 on: July 22, 2023, 04:34:43 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Brad Stevens is unlikely to lie about this, and he said Brogdon would be ready for opening day. Until I hear this reported by legitimate sources, I won't worry about it.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #768 on: July 22, 2023, 06:13:00 PM »

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Brad Stevens is unlikely to lie about this, and he said Brogdon would be ready for opening day. Until I hear this reported by legitimate sources, I won't worry about it.

6-8 months for tennis elbow?


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Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #769 on: July 22, 2023, 08:28:36 PM »

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Brad Stevens is unlikely to lie about this, and he said Brogdon would be ready for opening day. Until I hear this reported by legitimate sources, I won't worry about it.

6-8 months for tennis elbow?

"Tennis elbow" is a euphemism for a torn elbow tendon.  Depending on the severity, yes it could take 6-8 mo's to heal or longer.  When the surgeon went in on mine, the tendon had shredded to the point it was granular like sand (far worse than the MRI's showed).  He had to sew the strands together individually and in groups.  It took 1 year before I could fully extend my elbow.   

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #770 on: July 22, 2023, 09:54:04 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Brad Stevens is unlikely to lie about this, and he said Brogdon would be ready for opening day. Until I hear this reported by legitimate sources, I won't worry about it.

6-8 months for tennis elbow?

"Tennis elbow" is a euphemism for a torn elbow tendon.  Depending on the severity, yes it could take 6-8 mo's to heal or longer.  When the surgeon went in on mine, the tendon had shredded to the point it was granular like sand (far worse than the MRI's showed).  He had to sew the strands together individually and in groups.  It took 1 year before I could fully extend my elbow.

Per the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons, tennis elbow can simply be inflammation.  It is not exclusively torn.  Don’t know what Brogdon has, obviously, but my guess is it is less severe than yours if they’re not planning surgery, and perhaps it was indeed not torn.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #771 on: July 22, 2023, 11:56:13 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Brad Stevens is unlikely to lie about this, and he said Brogdon would be ready for opening day. Until I hear this reported by legitimate sources, I won't worry about it.

6-8 months for tennis elbow?

"Tennis elbow" is a euphemism for a torn elbow tendon.  Depending on the severity, yes it could take 6-8 mo's to heal or longer.  When the surgeon went in on mine, the tendon had shredded to the point it was granular like sand (far worse than the MRI's showed).  He had to sew the strands together individually and in groups.  It took 1 year before I could fully extend my elbow.

Per the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons, tennis elbow can simply be inflammation.  It is not exclusively torn.  Don’t know what Brogdon has, obviously, but my guess is it is less severe than yours if they’re not planning surgery, and perhaps it was indeed not torn.

It was reported during the playoffs and confirmed by Brogdon himself that his tendon was partially torn.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #772 on: July 23, 2023, 07:08:04 AM »

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Murray always coming up with garbage rumors on his "phone"

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #773 on: July 23, 2023, 08:55:13 AM »

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Murray always coming up with garbage rumors on his "phone"

I am not that worried about this injury.  All the public statements are that he is fine and is expected to start the season.  Of course that was the case with RWill last season, until it wasn't.  Even if Brogdon can't play until December (which I see as a highly unlikely worst case), I am still not that worried.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #774 on: July 23, 2023, 10:40:36 AM »

Offline boscel33

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I can't imagine it's 6-8 months.  If it was, you're talking surgery is needed.  I believe he's ready for the season start but may miss training camp.
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Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #775 on: July 25, 2023, 04:49:29 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #776 on: July 25, 2023, 05:05:17 PM »

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Tatum becoming more vocal. Good to see…

https://twitter.com/CTabatabaie/status/1683901236037271553?s=20

I like his attitude. I think we see MVP Tatum this season.
ok fine

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #777 on: July 25, 2023, 06:08:41 PM »

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Tatum becoming more vocal. Good to see…

https://twitter.com/CTabatabaie/status/1683901236037271553?s=20
You can tell he really loves to hoop. Doesn't seem too concerned with much else, just a hooper!
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #778 on: July 26, 2023, 08:39:05 AM »

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Murray always coming up with garbage rumors on his "phone"

I am not that worried about this injury.  All the public statements are that he is fine and is expected to start the season.  Of course that was the case with RWill last season, until it wasn't.  Even if Brogdon can't play until December (which I see as a highly unlikely worst case), I am still not that worried.
Just to be contrary (I don't believe this BTW), it is possible those public statements were designed to keep his value up while they shopped him.

Re: Celtics Off-Season News
« Reply #779 on: July 26, 2023, 08:53:47 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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This isn’t actual news but listened to Gasper & Murray (I think) on my lunch drive today - they were talking about Brogdon being out 6-8 months (perhaps the season) with his arm injury. It was something one of them had “heard”.   I don’t believe it but thought I’d post to see if this is being floated more legitimately elsewhere.

Murray always coming up with garbage rumors on his "phone"

I am not that worried about this injury.  All the public statements are that he is fine and is expected to start the season.  Of course that was the case with RWill last season, until it wasn't.  Even if Brogdon can't play until December (which I see as a highly unlikely worst case), I am still not that worried.
Just to be contrary (I don't believe this BTW), it is possible those public statements were designed to keep his value up while they shopped him.

Anything is possible of course, but I think they would say nothing if that was the case.  I don't think they would go public with a false narrative on something like this.  I am conceding that it is impossible even for them to know.  I think the Doctors were telling them that RWill was going to be OK to start the season last season but then he wasn't.  There was no trade value or anything involved in that.  And Brogdon may not heal the way they think.  But at this point, I am not that worried.  I think he will be ready to start the season.