Celtics Off-Season News

[radiohead]

“I would say Tatum is the No.1,” O’Neal said. “Use Brown to bring in a Brown-type player and then just do it like that. And then it will be good for Brown so that he’ll have the opportunity to be No. 1 somewhere, because he’s a No. 1 caliber player but I can tell that it frustrates him to be the other guy.”

O’Neal recalled his experience of an organization viewing him as a No. 2 option while he considered himself a No. 1.

“That affects you, it really does mentally,” O’Neal said. “Because I went from No. 50 and went to No. 1 and stayed for a long time. Then when I was in LA they tried to force me to be No. 2, but I was like, ‘nope, I’m the king’ and stayed at No. 1. Went through a lot of battles every year. Finally, they said ‘we’re going to kill the king in his sleep’ and they traded me to Miami.”

I agree. It looks to me as well that it bothers JB. That he has difficulty accepting his role. That he wants to breakout and do more. Take more shots. Score more points. Prove he can be more.

Reminds me of Kobe in those 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 seasons next to Shaq. Kobe did not want to accept that #2 role. He kept fighting to prove he can the guy even though Shaq was clearly better than him like Tatum is clearly better than Jaylen. Jaylen doesn't force the issue as badly as Kobe did but he still has plenty of eye-roll moments with forcing the action / shot selection.

The funny thing is, Brown had an opportunity to show he could be the #1 guy in game 7 of the ECF with Tatum down and he shrunk from the moment.

He didn't in last year's finals though. He just wasn't able to get us over the hump.

Jaylen in last year's Finals = 23.5ppg on 43% FG% 34% 3PT% and 81% FT% on good volume for a TS% of 54.4%. Jaylen also handed out 22 assists in 6 games for 3.7apg against 20 turnovers.

Those are not great offensive numbers. He was taking almost 20 shots a game along with 5 FTs a game to get those 23.5ppg. Not great efficiency, not good efficiency, just okay. And the AST:TO problems again.

He was the best Celtic in the series and single-handedly kept them in some games.

He also had a couple of clunkers in the series (games 2 and 5 shooting under 30% in both games and both losses). He had a great game 6 so people base his finals performance on that. All of our guys struggled in that series, Jaylen included.

Sure. Jaylen could be a #1 guy, but not on a team that's winning a lot of games. He's too limited (Heat game planned to bait him into iso ball and force him to his left. Completely made him ineffective) and he struggles with playmaking, so he doesn't make players around him better.

I remember a Heat player (was it Caleb Martin?) in one of the post game 7 interviews. He said they just made Jaylen go left and that resulted into the numerous turnovers. I mean if that doesn’t p--- Jaylen off then I don’t know what will. That said, I agree with the quoted post above. Jaylen can be a number 1 but I don’t think he is one at the moment.

[Goldstar88]

Rick Barry Says Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown Suffer From “Westbrook Syndrome”

“Both (Jaylen) Brown and (Jayson) Tatum, who are two talented players, suffer from what I call (Russell) Westbrook syndrome. Westbrook is an incredible talent. I love how hard he plays, but he tries to force things. In the game of basketball, you should always be taking what the defense gives you… Both Jaylen and Jayson, they have a tendency to force things and end up getting a lot of turnovers.”

When asked about Joe Mazzulla, Barry expressed that the first-year head coach isn’t to blame for the Boston Celtics’ shortcomings.

“The last time I checked, Joe Mazzulla didn’t make a turnover. Did he? I checked the stat sheet… I didn’t see any missed shots on his part. I didn’t see any missed assignments defensively. The problem was that the team as a whole was very inconsistent. It surprised the hell out of me, especially after they did such a great job of coming back down 3-2 to (the) Philadelphia (76ers). To play so poorly against (the) Miami (Heat), I was shocked. Then it looked like they had the chance to do what has never been done before, to come back from a 3-0 deficit, and they laid an egg in Game 7. That was weird. They were what the (Golden State) Warriors were in the playoffs, Jekyll and Hyde. You didn’t know (which) team was going to show up. I don’t know how you blame that on Joe Mazzulla. A coach can only do so much.”

On the topic of inconsistency, Barry named Brown as an example.

“It’s the same thing with Jaylen (Brown). My big thing with basketball is you want to be consistent… They have a tendency to play really well and great, then in the next game, all of a sudden, they don’t shoot as well. I’d rather have a player that can get me 15 to 20 points a game than a (player) who gets me 30 (points) and then 8 (points) the next game.”

[Roy H.]

That's not very deep analysis by Barry.  The turnovers, sure.  But the missed shots are largely due to an offensive scheme that has them putting up a ton of outside shots.  And, it's hard to cite offensive consistency that lives and dies by the three.  By their nature, there's a lot of variability to those shots.

And, as always with Barry, the lack of humility is astounding.  Barry was a selfish, arrogant teammate and one of the most hated guys in the league.  Turnover stats weren't regularly kept during his career, but in the years they were, his turnovers were higher than the Jays, and he was among league leaders in missed shots.

Plus, as an announcer he said Bill Russell "was a fool with a watermelon grin", which p---ed Bill off majorly.  He was "joking", but it never sat right with many.

[Who]

I always enjoy hearing Rick Barry's thoughts on things. He is direct and usually right in his analysis.

I agree with a lot of what he says there. I would put more onus on the coaching but I agree that the players are getting too much of a pass for their own poor play. Especially Jaylen Brown.

[Vermont Green]

Rick Barry Says Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown Suffer From “Westbrook Syndrome”

“Both (Jaylen) Brown and (Jayson) Tatum, who are two talented players, suffer from what I call (Russell) Westbrook syndrome. Westbrook is an incredible talent. I love how hard he plays, but he tries to force things. In the game of basketball, you should always be taking what the defense gives you… Both Jaylen and Jayson, they have a tendency to force things and end up getting a lot of turnovers.”

When asked about Joe Mazzulla, Barry expressed that the first-year head coach isn’t to blame for the Boston Celtics’ shortcomings.

“The last time I checked, Joe Mazzulla didn’t make a turnover. Did he? I checked the stat sheet… I didn’t see any missed shots on his part. I didn’t see any missed assignments defensively. The problem was that the team as a whole was very inconsistent. It surprised the hell out of me, especially after they did such a great job of coming back down 3-2 to (the) Philadelphia (76ers). To play so poorly against (the) Miami (Heat), I was shocked. Then it looked like they had the chance to do what has never been done before, to come back from a 3-0 deficit, and they laid an egg in Game 7. That was weird. They were what the (Golden State) Warriors were in the playoffs, Jekyll and Hyde. You didn’t know (which) team was going to show up. I don’t know how you blame that on Joe Mazzulla. A coach can only do so much.”

On the topic of inconsistency, Barry named Brown as an example.

“It’s the same thing with Jaylen (Brown). My big thing with basketball is you want to be consistent… They have a tendency to play really well and great, then in the next game, all of a sudden, they don’t shoot as well. I’d rather have a player that can get me 15 to 20 points a game than a (player) who gets me 30 (points) and then 8 (points) the next game.”

Thanks for posting this.  Whether you agree or disagree, in whole or in part, this is good for discussion.

I agree with his point on turnovers.  Tatum and Brown do try to force it too much vs. reacting to what the defensive gives them.  But I feel coaching/scheme has more to do with this than Barry seems to be saying.  The Celtics offense is uncomplicated and predictable.  Pick and role with Tatum and everyone else standing at the 3-point line.  That does not give Tatum and Brown enough options.

Tatum is a pretty good passer, that facet of his game has improved, but still does need work.  Brown does just kind of put his head down and force things.  But scheme would help both.

[cman88]

what are our thoughts on Grant Williams? I know the consensus is we probably will not keep him (unless his value is down). and he didn't play much in the playoffs.

But, he was a huge factor in us coming back against Miami. and IMO our two biggest rivals in the east are still Milwaukee/Philly. and he is very good against Giannis. I would hate to move away from him and look more towards beating a team like Miami (who may just go back to what they were last year barring any improvements).  and look past the more talented teams that probably will be there again.

[celts55]

what are our thoughts on Grant Williams? I know the consensus is we probably will not keep him (unless his value is down). and he didn't play much in the playoffs.

But, he was a huge factor in us coming back against Miami. and IMO our two biggest rivals in the east are still Milwaukee/Philly. and he is very good against Giannis. I would hate to move away from him and look more towards beating a team like Miami (who may just go back to what they were last year barring any improvements).  and look past the more talented teams that probably will be there again.

I’m pretty meh on Grant. He’s okay to have around, but I don’t count on him nor would I pay big money on him. I think his defense is overrated as I’ve seen numerous players go around him like he was a chair. He’s pretty strong and bangs guys, but I don’t see it.
On offense, he’s pretty much a three point shooter. He’s rather inconsistent. Look at game 7. Granted the whole team sucked, but he was 1-4 for 3 points. I believe he had like 2 rebounds and 1 assists. I would prefer someone who could step up and help a bit when the J’s aren’t bringing it.
Lastly, I can’t stand how much he complains to the refs. He’s worse than Tatum, but without adding value. I won’t be sad if he leaves.

[Surferdad]

what are our thoughts on Grant Williams? I know the consensus is we probably will not keep him (unless his value is down). and he didn't play much in the playoffs.

But, he was a huge factor in us coming back against Miami. and IMO our two biggest rivals in the east are still Milwaukee/Philly. and he is very good against Giannis. I would hate to move away from him and look more towards beating a team like Miami (who may just go back to what they were last year barring any improvements).  and look past the more talented teams that probably will be there again.

I’m pretty meh on Grant. He’s okay to have around, but I don’t count on him nor would I pay big money on him. I think his defense is overrated as I’ve seen numerous players go around him like he was a chair. He’s pretty strong and bangs guys, but I don’t see it.
On offense, he’s pretty much a three point shooter. He’s rather inconsistent. Look at game 7. Granted the whole team sucked, but he was 1-4 for 3 points. I believe he had like 2 rebounds and 1 assists. I would prefer someone who could step up and help a bit when the J’s aren’t bringing it.
Lastly, I can’t stand how much he complains to the refs. He’s worse than Tatum, but without adding value. I won’t be sad if he leaves.

Well then let's get rid of Grant. 

[celts55]

what are our thoughts on Grant Williams? I know the consensus is we probably will not keep him (unless his value is down). and he didn't play much in the playoffs.

But, he was a huge factor in us coming back against Miami. and IMO our two biggest rivals in the east are still Milwaukee/Philly. and he is very good against Giannis. I would hate to move away from him and look more towards beating a team like Miami (who may just go back to what they were last year barring any improvements).  and look past the more talented teams that probably will be there again.

I’m pretty meh on Grant. He’s okay to have around, but I don’t count on him nor would I pay big money on him. I think his defense is overrated as I’ve seen numerous players go around him like he was a chair. He’s pretty strong and bangs guys, but I don’t see it.
On offense, he’s pretty much a three point shooter. He’s rather inconsistent. Look at game 7. Granted the whole team sucked, but he was 1-4 for 3 points. I believe he had like 2 rebounds and 1 assists. I would prefer someone who could step up and help a bit when the J’s aren’t bringing it.
Lastly, I can’t stand how much he complains to the refs. He’s worse than Tatum, but without adding value. I won’t be sad if he leaves.

Well then let's get rid of Grant. 

I didn’t didnt say get rid of him. I said I wouldn’t pay him big money, nor would it break my heart if he was gone.
If they could do a sign and trade for someone like Portis, I would do that in a heartbeat.
The OP, asked our thoughts on Grant, and that’s mine.

[Goldstar88]

MassLive.com reported on Thursday that the Boston Celtics have been and will continue to be active in trade talks throughout the offseason. One of the names the Celtics called to inquire about was Isaiah Stewart, according to those league sources. Other teams, too, have called the Pistons about the soon-to-be fourth-year big man. When Detroit got Stewart in the 2021 NBA Draft, rivals teams called to try and get the Pistons to trade him. He is valued around the league due to his defensive versatility and potential as a frontcourt floor spacer.  – via James L. Edwards III @ The Athletic

[Celtics4ever]

what are our thoughts on Grant Williams? I know the consensus is we probably will not keep him (unless his value is down). and he didn't play much in the playoffs.

But, he was a huge factor in us coming back against Miami. and IMO our two biggest rivals in the east are still Milwaukee/Philly. and he is very good against Giannis. I would hate to move away from him and look more towards beating a team like Miami (who may just go back to what they were last year barring any improvements).  and look past the more talented teams that probably will be there again.

He is  a smart player with a good basketball IQ,  he has worked hard on his three point and body, this turned his career around.    He is small and not very athletic but uses strength and basketball IQ.   One of the few guys we have to lean on guys to fatigue them who an hold their ground.   He is a three point sniper, poor rebounder for his physical assets.  He complains about the refs too much.  He can't play the five despite what folks say at least not play it well.   

I think he is replaceable.  Hauser can shoot but not do all the other little things.   But signing a back up PF with some more size would take the sting out of losing him real quick, see Naz Reed.   Seems like a good team mate.

I hated him his first two years as he was too heavy to play well and not athletic to play small.    He has always been smart, and high IQ.   He has made a player out of himself.   

[RJ87]

Bobby Manning
@RealBobManning

Haynes: The Boston Celtics are fielding calls on the multitude of quality guards on their roster, sources tell B/R. With Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard all deserving of playing time, Boston is looking to create some position balance, sources say

[Goldstar88]

Bobby Manning
@RealBobManning

Haynes: The Boston Celtics are fielding calls on the multitude of quality guards on their roster, sources tell B/R. With Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard all deserving of playing time, Boston is looking to create some position balance, sources say

I really hope they don’t trade White. Brogdon was great off the bench until his injury. Smart and Pritchard should be the players to shop.

[jpotter33]

Bobby Manning
@RealBobManning

Haynes: The Boston Celtics are fielding calls on the multitude of quality guards on their roster, sources tell B/R. With Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard all deserving of playing time, Boston is looking to create some position balance, sources say

Does seem like some sort of pretty significant move is bound to happen with this group.

[Neurotic Guy]

Bobby Manning
@RealBobManning

Haynes: The Boston Celtics are fielding calls on the multitude of quality guards on their roster, sources tell B/R. With Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard all deserving of playing time, Boston is looking to create some position balance, sources say

I really hope they don’t trade White. Brogdon was great off the bench until his injury. Smart and Pritchard should be the players to shop.

I was about to post almost the same.

My top choice to trade is Smart.   I don’t say this lightly. Marcus has seemed like a devoted Celtic from the start and he brings a lot to the table.  I just think it’s a win-win -win:
1. Trade Smart for a roster balancing big
2. Move DW to starting PG slot (unless a top flight floor general is acquired).  An improvement IMO.
3. Open minutes for Pritchard - I think he’s got Eddie House 2008 impact written all over him.  Plus can pass, boards for his size, and no let-up in his game.