Retool Around Tatum

[Mahk E Mahk]

it would seem the JT, JB, Marcus trio has run its course, and the best path forward is to rebuild the roster around tatum’s strengths and weaknesses. if you’re gm of the C’s, what’s your plan?

without naming specific players, which i will probably add later in this thread, tatum needs the following to reach his potential (in no particular order):

• a big who is a legit low post threat to open up the driving/shooting lanes for JT, and who is a solid rebounder
• a floor general PG who will keep the ball moving and get JT the ball in his preferred spots
• a spot-up shooter who can keep opposing defenses honest and knock down the open threes
• a nasty, hard nosed veteran who will do the dirty work, raise the intensity of this team, and push JT to be mentally tougher
• a no nonsense coach with an offensive approach that plays to JT’s strengths, and a defensive minded 1A assistant who will return the C’s to a defensive mentality

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

yup. feels like we have had that trio for 20 years now. blow it up. it has failed.

[SparzWizard]

yup. feels like we have had that trio for 20 years now. blow it up. it has failed.

But we got folks here wanting to run it back one more time. Think I've heard that forever. I was skeptical in 2019. Even in Jaylen's first year, they were badly smoked in the ECF and I'm sure Horford and Smart were also on that team. 2020 exit to the Heat was just atrocious, they thought they won the title dethroning the Raptors. 2022 Finals exit was a waste. Now this year again to the Heat but as a #8 seed. We need a change in scenery, build around JT. Move Brown... he wants to be alpha somewhere else or shine with Kyrie then let him.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

[RJ87]

yup. feels like we have had that trio for 20 years now. blow it up. it has failed.

But we got folks here wanting to run it back one more time. Think I've heard that forever. I was skeptical in 2019. Even in Jaylen's first year, they were badly smoked in the ECF and I'm sure Horford and Smart were also on that team. 2020 exit to the Heat was just atrocious, they thought they won the title dethroning the Raptors. 2022 Finals exit was a waste. Now this year again to the Heat but as a #8 seed. We need a change in scenery.

In reality, we're on year 3 of JT/JB as the unquestioned focal points of this team. People really forget that the Jays were the contingency plan. They were just supposed to be Kyrie/Hayward/Horford machine and then the eventual guys. Even after Kyrie sabotaged us and bailed, we still tried to make it work by plugging in Kemba.

I should go back to the threads around 2019-2021 time period around these boards because everyone was going "we need to pick a path. We need to hand the keys to the Jays."

This is what that path was always going to look like. Lots of bumps and failures while they figure it out.

[RJ87]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

[jpotter33]

Numbers 2 and 5 are most important.

I'm fully committed to the idea that the biggest part of our end-game struggles the last few years is the lack of a true point guard who can be fully trusted with the ball down the stretch. JT is good and improving in his handle and decision-making as a superstar, and he generally makes the right plays. JB is awful and simply cannot be relied upon, and Smart is so hit or miss that it's hard to trust him. Clearly, you can't have JB and Smart at the same time, so you have to upgrade there somewhere.

As for the coach, this team clearly did best with a hard-nosed coach that focused on the defense and held them accountable. Joe clearly is not this guy, both given his cluelessness due to his inexperience as well as not having that commanding presence. We screwed ourselves by winning these last three games. We'd probably be in a much better position moving forward if we got swept, as that would force management's hands. But we'll probably get more Second Row Joe next year, as unfortunate as it is. Worse, we lost out on Nurse now, too, who seemingly would've been a great fit for this team.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

yup. feels like we have had that trio for 20 years now. blow it up. it has failed.

But we got folks here wanting to run it back one more time. Think I've heard that forever. I was skeptical in 2019. Even in Jaylen's first year, they were badly smoked in the ECF and I'm sure Horford and Smart were also on that team. 2020 exit to the Heat was just atrocious, they thought they won the title dethroning the Raptors. 2022 Finals exit was a waste. Now this year again to the Heat but as a #8 seed. We need a change in scenery, build around JT. Move Brown... he wants to be alpha somewhere else or shine with Kyrie then let him.

yup. we coulda won the finals last year. we played dumb and never learned. GS coulda been beaten.

4 ECFS with this core. 5 dating back to that one the cavs smoked us. 1 finals. theyve had years. enough already. get tough guys in here who want to win. and play smart.

yup build around JT. this core has failed. time to move on.

[Mahk E Mahk]

Numbers 2 and 5 are most important.

I'm fully committed to the idea that the biggest part of our end-game struggles the last few years is the lack of a true point guard who can be fully trusted with the ball down the stretch. JT is good and improving in his handle and decision-making as a superstar, and he generally makes the right plays. JB is awful and simply cannot be relied upon, and Smart is so hit or miss that it's hard to trust him. Clearly, you can't have JB and Smart at the same time, so you have to upgrade there somewhere.

As for the coach, this team clearly did best with a hard-nosed coach that focused on the defense and held them accountable. Joe clearly is not this guy, both given his cluelessness due to his inexperience as well as not having that commanding presence. We screwed ourselves by winning these last three games. We'd probably be in a much better position moving forward if we got swept, as that would force management's hands. But we'll probably get more Second Row Joe next year, as unfortunate as it is. Worse, we lost out on Nurse now, too, who seemingly would've been a great fit for this team.

TP for the good post; thanks for the thoughtful reply, jp.

in spite of the many good things that marcus brings to the table, his lack of play-making and inability to consistently run the offense are now hurting this team. with JT drawing so much defensive attention, the C’s need a PG who can either score consistently, or elevate the play of others around him, in order to open up the floor for JT.

this team has peaked with two key starters (marcus and JB) that have such glaring deficiencies. time to rebuild with players who actually compliment JT’s game.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Numbers 2 and 5 are most important.

I'm fully committed to the idea that the biggest part of our end-game struggles the last few years is the lack of a true point guard who can be fully trusted with the ball down the stretch. JT is good and improving in his handle and decision-making as a superstar, and he generally makes the right plays. JB is awful and simply cannot be relied upon, and Smart is so hit or miss that it's hard to trust him. Clearly, you can't have JB and Smart at the same time, so you have to upgrade there somewhere.

As for the coach, this team clearly did best with a hard-nosed coach that focused on the defense and held them accountable. Joe clearly is not this guy, both given his cluelessness due to his inexperience as well as not having that commanding presence. We screwed ourselves by winning these last three games. We'd probably be in a much better position moving forward if we got swept, as that would force management's hands. But we'll probably get more Second Row Joe next year, as unfortunate as it is. Worse, we lost out on Nurse now, too, who seemingly would've been a great fit for this team.

TP for the good post; thanks for the thoughtful reply, jp.

in spite of the many good things that marcus brings to the table, his lack of play-making and inability to consistently run the offense are now hurting this team. with JT drawing so much defensive attention, the C’s need a PG who can either score consistently, or elevate the play of others around him, in order to open up the floor for JT.

this team has peaked with two key starters (marcus and JB) that have such glaring deficiencies. time to rebuild with players who actually compliment JT’s game.

BLOW IT UP

[ashanm10]

Legit trade anything possible for Wembayama if possible to get him if you ask me

[RJ87]

Legit trade anything possible for Wembayama if possible to get him if you ask me

Spoiler alert: it's not possible.

[gouki88]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

Yeah, I can't think of many. There aren't many high-scoring bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Giannis (?), Markannen, Randle, Porzingis), even less of which are low-post oriented.

Maybe a fringe big like Siakam, or a lesser scorer like Vucevic/Ayton?

[Kernewek]

it would seem the JT, JB, Marcus trio has run its course, and the best path forward is to rebuild the roster around tatum’s strengths and weaknesses. if you’re gm of the C’s, what’s your plan?

without naming specific players, which i will probably add later in this thread, tatum needs the following to reach his potential (in no particular order):

• a big who is a legit low post threat to open up the driving/shooting lanes for JT, and who is a solid rebounder
• a floor general PG who will keep the ball moving and get JT the ball in his preferred spots
• a spot-up shooter who can keep opposing defenses honest and knock down the open threes
• a nasty, hard nosed veteran who will do the dirty work, raise the intensity of this team, and push JT to be mentally tougher
• a no nonsense coach with an offensive approach that plays to JT’s strengths, and a defensive minded 1A assistant who will return the C’s to a defensive mentality

Interestingly, I think you have the right list in the opposite order of importance for me - the only one I really don't agree with is the low post offense, simply because the NBA isn't that league anymore, for better or worse. The rules we have now don't particularly compliment low post play and it's a bit of a lost art across the guys in the league for that reason.

So, on points 4&5:
None of us know what blend of Hardy/Mazz/Udoka/Stat brought out the defense last year, but a few things are clear - Horford's not capable of anchoring our defense anymore, Williams probably isn't up to replacing him, and the rest of the bigs, save Timelord, are essentially dead weight. Not to say they can't do it, but so far they haven't. So a reshuffle of the coaching staff (I think Mazzulla stays after this series so we need to see who else is brought in as assistants) as well as some defensively-minded players closer to the rim than Smart & Tatum are the most important for me.


Point 3 is a 'gimmie', to a degree - of course we want players who can knock down open shots. Our bench being paper thin after the top 7 really hurt us because we didn't have that.

I struggle with Point 2, so I think that's the one we should talk about.

So: it absolutely makes sense that we need a steady handed playmaker when we can't 'improvise' our way to offensive success, however I don't think the current core have played at their best with a scoring point guard (like Kemba), and in fact our successes last year stem from the Horford/Walker trade, which let Smart be the primary point guard, a move that was nearly as impactful as Horford being incredible on the switch.

That's a difficult circle to square, especially because we're almost certainly not going to have the same defensive impact from our bigs next year if the roster stays the same anyway, so I'm hesitant to compromise on wing defense as well.

Plus,while our offense certainly has periods where it stagnates to the point where time seems to split open and every possession takes roughly a thousand years off of my life as a fan, I'm not sure we actually do better if we, say, swap Marcus out for a Chris Paul type who can execute in the halfcourt. Again and as well, I'm not sure how many playmaking points are really left in the league that fit with the timeline of our core, which is also a concern if we're suggesting (for example) flipping JT and Smart for this playmaking PG.

[RJ87]

this GM never did believe in having a big who can dominate down low to punish teams and then open everything  else up mid to deep range. shoulda traded brown for KD. were pizzing JT away with this clown management and coaching. and maybe ownership. a real big woulda destroyed bam down low.

Who is this dominant post big that's been available that we've refused to acquire?

Yeah, I can't think of many. There aren't many high-scoring bigs (Embiid, Jokic, Giannis (?), Markannen, Randle, Porzingis), even less of which are low-post oriented.

Maybe a fringe big like Siakam, or a lesser scorer like Vucevic/Ayton?

Which is my point, those players don't really exist in today's NBA. The legit post dominant guys (Jokic and Embiid) aren't available. After that, you get a bunch of guys that are more perimeter oriented and shoot a ton of 3s too.

Posters are begging for players who simply don't exist. So when posters start clamoring for "a big who can dominate down low to punish teams," they need to attach the names of these mythical players.